Solar Panels

Simon

Simon

So I am considering putting panels in the student house. I pay the power bills and with five young people they can be high.

Anyways, my question is:

What is the best avenue for arranging this? I see loads of Internet specials including no deposit loans.

Is it better just to find a reputable local installer and negotiate a system upfront?

I'd actually consider doing my own home as well. Will this give me additional leverage when negotiating? Or should I take it a step further and get hold of other interested buyers via social media to get us an even better deal?

Cheers
 
Just as an aside make sure that you inform your power company that you are doing this so you can get a rebate for feeding power back into the grid - otherwise if it isn't lodged properly you don't get the cash back.
 
I don't know anything about installers around Newcastle so can't really add any value there.

What I would point out though is that Australia is the worst market in the world regarding the deployment of third tier solar panels and inverters out of places like China. These are generally dodgy and come with warranties from $2 companies who will likely go broke next year. It's just a function of the methods used to support the industry that we are the world's dumping ground for this type of product.

OTOH the tier one panel and inverter products are great - long term production warranties from bankable counterparties etc etc and they really don't cost that much more. It's just that relatively few customers take the time to properly research the difference between junk and quality products. FYI some of the tier one manufacturers would include:

Sunpower
Trina
Hanwha Q Cells
Yingli

In inverters, it's hard to recommend anyone other than SMA for resi use without getting into an argument... although no doubt someone will argue with that statement! There are many more quality inverters BTW but it's a bit tricky without getting down to individual units IMO.

This article gives you a bit of an idea: http://www.energymatters.com.au/choosing-solar-panels.php

It's frustrating in the large scale side of the business when people point out that the solar panels on their roof are shot after a few years, they therefore write off all solar panels as dodgy, when the only thing that was dodgy was their own lack of research into the topic...
 
Before going down the path of solar panels, have you instead considered installing some more energy efficient products to reduce power consumption first?

The first port of call would be to replace all lighting with LED - we all know students don't turn off the lights, EVER. You could save hundreds here alone, depending on what you are currently using for lighting.


If you do go for solar - you need to identify if power is being used during daylight hours when the solar panels are producing power. Solar panels only produce "instant" power (they dont store power), so if you arent using the power when it's being produced, that excess power goes back onto the grid and you get a measly $0.06 per kWh for it (if anything).
.... however, if the house is using (enough) power when the solar panels would be producing, then you are save $0.28 per kWh - because each kWh your panels produce that the house uses, you dont have to pay for!

I hope that makes sense.
 
All good advice mate.

First things did was energy efficient lighting and heating.

But I can't be there all the time to make sure they turn their heaters off when they go to uni or to sleep.

I did consider radiators installed on the wall with a 30 minute timer that needs to be turned on in half hour increments. But I know they will just buy a $20 fan heater at the $2 shop.

So besides me being an electricity nazi I decided I should maybe make my own power.

Obviously peak usage will be the evenings and lower during the day. Can't I store energy in the grid to use at night? Or doesn't it work that way?

I got so much to learn .....
 
Simon said:
Obviously peak usage will be the evenings and lower during the day. Can't I store energy in the grid to use at night? Or doesn't it work that way?

I got so much to learn .....
Click to expand...

It doesn't work that way... the only form of storage in the grid on the east coast is avoiding the use of hydro generation and maintaining the water levels for later. Other than that it gets generated when it gets used.

And you only get a premium rate for avoiding your own consumption at the time. If you export you don't get paid much at all.

FYI the biggest cost component in a standard electricity bill is paying network charges - the value of the actual power generation is relatively small. It's only when people start using their own storage and disconnecting from the grid entirely that those costs can be avoided but that's quite a few years away yet due to the cost at the moment. We will get there though IMO - it's just a matter of time.
 
I was told that they are starting to have batteries which can store daytime energy, but they are still cost prohibitive.

We went through a website which promised three quotes. Two people responded, but neither of them followed up. Perhaps our timing was bad, as it was two months before the expiration of a bonus just across the border, and all firms were extremely busy.
 
Maybe this isn't the path for me then. Peak production will be while they are not in the house and also over the summer when I just have one or two tenants.

I do know it isn't heat that makes the electricity but light, but we get more light at a better angle in summer right?

I might look at replacing the instantaneous electric HWS with a solar unit. At least that will store the power.

And keep being a nazi. Will tell them that leaving the lights on kills baby dolphins .....
 
Simon said:
I do know it isn't heat that makes the electricity but light, but we get more light at a better angle in summer right?
Click to expand...
Yes- better angle in the summer, plus smaller cloud cover. Although apparently some units are better at low radiation levels- at a capital cost presumably.

Solar hot water can be a good option- but again it needs boosting in winter.
 
I've heard some advocate 50% of panels face NW & the rest NE to catch the morning & afternoon sun - that may fit in well with their usage pattern.

Apparently, there is a small drop in total daily output, but due to the paltry Feed In Tariff it can work out more cost effective.

Of course DYOR....
 
I have been involved in solar industry for a while now and all the posts above give a pretty accurate picture and I agree with pretty much all comments.

One thing you can do is measure the consumption of electricity in kiloWatt hours (kWh) between say 9.00am and 4.00pm if facing panels north or 11.00am and 6.00pm if facing panels west. This is done by looking at your main meter and writing down the numbers at these times. Do not look at your off peak meter if there is one as this will confuse things and it is irrelevant anyway.

Say if the usage is 16 kWh between these times then a 4 kW system will be highly beneficial. Whatever the usage is in kWh, divide by 4 and this is a good indication of what size system you need. Another example - if 10 kWh used in between these times then a 2.5 kW system size will be beneficial. The smaller the size system you go from figures above will increase your ROI as there is more guarantee you will use more of the power at 28 cents rather than exporting it for 6 or 8 cents. The thing that will throw the previous statement out though is the bigger the system purchased the less cost per kW of size so keep that in mind too eg 2kW system = $5,000 ($2500 per kW) or 5kW system = $10,000 ($2000 per kW).

It isn't perfect as different seasons, different angles etc etc etc can all play havoc with electricity consumption and production of solar panels but it gives not a bad indication of size needed.

I have seen some people getting up to 30% per annum returns on solar systems and this is with Tier One panels and SMA Inverters.

Cheers, Charlie.
 
We just had a system installed last week.
We debated for months, confused with all the options and decided in the end to go with a long term company and chose Origin.
They offered us 2 years, interest free. Works out about $330 per month. Deposit was $400ish.
We went with a 5kWh system (20 panels) for $8400.
Our bills are about $1000 a quarter (before solar) so we are looking forward to the next bill.
Install took about 6-7 hours.

In the process of getting quotes we were bombarded with offers and reduced offers so it is definitely a buyers market.
 
geoffw said:
I was told that they are starting to have batteries which can store daytime energy, but they are still cost prohibitive.
Click to expand...

Yeh too exxy right now. The only way you can "store" power is by selling it back at the measly rates.

Eg: if you generate 4 hour's worth of electricity during the day @ 6c each, you are essentially getting a free hour at night @ 24c (very approx). So even if no one uses power during the day, you MIGHT be able to generate enough for 2 free hours at night under perfect solar conditions.
 
Some rural farmers in the far north use large battery storage systems, complete with panels and automatic backup diesel genset.

The better systems cost around $80,000 - the government used to pay half of this.

$40,000 - $80,000 and never pay for power ever again!

(If only it were as perfect as it sounds).
 
It is not just rural farmers that use off grid systems. There are probably far more around than you realise and it is possible to get a good system up and running for less than half the cost you stated. But, it is something that requires maintenance and knowledge so is not something I would ever recommend for an investment property. It is far too easy to ruin batteries through poor system management and this is of course the most expensive component.
 
Viability spreadsheet - solar

I have a spreadsheet that calculate how long it would take to break even installing different type of solar panel capacity, however it is in xlsx and i can't upload it here to share ( invalid file). If you pm me i can email it to you.

I installed last year in May a 3kw system, chinese made, it generated $1600 worth of solar rebate ( 8 c/kw from retailer and 44c/kw from the gov) , lots more in summer and much less in winter, also very important to install at the right angle, aspect. Costed $3,600 to install and 4 weeks to connect to the grid.

ta
 
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