Starting my own SMSF

bweed said:
would it be legal for a SMSF to invest in precious metals? If so what about physical gold bullion? held in a safety deposit box or a hole in the ground?

can't see anything on ATO site that suggests otherwise...


Bweed,

1. Does the SMSF trust deed allow it?
2. Is the aim to provide retirement benefits for members

If you get 2 yes answers, go for your life, material galore is available from purveyors of the shiny metal eg the world gold council, which will support your argument to the ATO that it is a good investment or inflation hedge or similar. So your SMSF could invest in bullion < or bullion securities>


IMHO the commodity could be good for trading on some of the rare strange opportunities that present in gold, but it's easier to calculate its value and the cost of dragging it out of the ground and be long or short individual gold producer stocks.

If you are serious about buying physical gold, think of:
loan contracts, security costs, insurance risk of loss. If you are thinking about an end run around the SIS Act like your super fund buying your spouse's jewellery, don't !

Hope this helps
 
bweed said:
would it be legal for a SMSF to invest in precious metals? If so what about physical gold bullion? held in a safety deposit box or a hole in the ground?

can't see anything on ATO site that suggests otherwise...

Most deeds won't stop you from making such investments, but the real issue will be the sole purpose test. The sole purpose of a super fund is that all investment activity has the sole purpose of providing retirement funds to the members of the fund. The sole purpose test is to ensure that the investment activity keeps that purpose in mind.

As long as your investment activity satisfies the sole purpose test, it should be fine. However I would be worried about where you would store such metals!
 
Hi All

From what I have read it would seem you need to be ablke to know a good investment to run a good SMSF or pay someone to know.

I have looked at SMSF and found

Min $100k : OK
Costs : $1k so 1%
Return: can vary subject to knowedge. Let say to be simply you put it in and ING account and get 5.5%.
Time consuming: yes
Input required: some to a lot subject to return.
Risk: medium to high subject to return.

Outcome: Growth p.a. of 4.5%

Ok but I considered a no-profit fund like CBUS and found

Cost to join $0
Cost per week $1 so $52 p.a.
Return vaired but was around 14% last year so lets say and average of 5.5% again.

On $100k we have the same return will added bunus of life insurance and no mangment issues for a cost p.a. of 0.1%.

So i went with CBUS and will review against SMSF from time to time.

FYI Peter 147
 
bweed said:
oh one more question, does this new legislation affect gov't employees? Qsuper just told me that I can't rollover into another fund unless I cease working for the public service?

Hi bweed
I had the same belief. check the award and see if the Award/conditions of employment binds you to the fund. whilst not a public servant , i'm in the not for profit disability sector and it wasn't until I pushed it a bit that my payroll guys confessed that they:
1.need to keep members (defined benefit closed fund) and
2. aren't going to be ready for people saying to them 'please roll my super to this fund (either a SMSF or another commercial fund)' on July 1.

have a chat to either your union rep (if a member) or talk to the Department of Industrial relations are my thoughts on seeing if they can say that.

Even if they can, cause the award binds then don't panic, I beleive that it will happen when a new award agreement is struck.

cheers
 
Peter 147 said:
So i went with CBUS and will review against SMSF from time to time.

FYI Peter 147

Hi Peter
any tips on where to get more info on CBUS and what's the story behind them being 'no profit'? :confused:
thanks
 
taylord68 said:
Hi Peter
any tips on where to get more info on CBUS and what's the story behind them being 'no profit'? :confused:
thanks


Sure

taken from website re not for profit

WHO IS CBUS

Cbus was built for you

Established in 1984, Cbus is an industry superannuation fund that originated in the construction, building and allied industries. It is now also a public offer fund, able to offer membership to any one working in any occupation and in any industry.

Built to give you a better retirement
As at December 30, 2004, Cbus managed members' assets worth over $6.1 billion. The Fund has more than 398,000 members and more than 38,000 participating employers. Cbus has a history of strong long-term results for members (see returns section in this website).

Built to benefit members
Cbus is managed solely for the benefit of its members. All profits belong to the members and Cbus pays no commissions to sales agents and no shareholder dividends.

Built to deliver low fees
Its membership fees are among the lowest of any super fund in Australia, and Cbus provides 24-hour insurance cover for death and total and permanent disablement (subject to eligibility criteria).

Built to invest back into our industry
Cbus also supports the construction and building industries by investing back into the industry, which helps boost the economy and create jobs.I]

WHERE TO FIND CBUS


http://www.cbussuper.com.au/

CAN I JOIN

Anyone can join. A common myth is you must be special to join.

RETURN

These rates are calculated as at 30 June 2004 and (and are after fees and tax):

Cbus Super: since 1984, Cbus Super (balanced fund) has credited an average of 10.1% pa to members' accounts. Over five years the crediting rate averaged 5.9% pa. In the financial year 2003/04, the crediting rate for Cbus Super was 14.50%.

Super Stable: since inception (1/10/99), this option has credited an average of 5.8% pa. In the financial year 2003/04, the crediting rate was 8.57%.

Super Saver: since inception (1998), this option has credited an average of 4.5% pa to members' accounts. In the financial year 2003/04, the crediting rate was 4.21%.

Super Plus: since inception (1998), Super Plus has credited an average of 6.1% pa to members' accounts. In the financial year 2003/04, the crediting rate was 17.10%.


BONUS???
An added bonus is the 24 death and disablement cover. Which they are geniune about.

My brother in law died in 2003 and they chased US to apply for a payout despite his fund have only $500 in it and being in active for years. It is presently being processed.

COST

At $52 bucks a year you cannot go wrong.

KISS principle until I get more $$ and more time

Peter 147
 
thanks peter147

Peter 147 said:
Sure

taken from website re not for profit

WHO IS CBUS

Cbus was built for you

Established in 1984, Cbus is an industry superannuation fund that originated in the construction, building and allied industries. It is now also a public offer fund, able to offer membership to any one working in any occupation and in any industry.


At $52 bucks a year you cannot go wrong.

KISS principle until I get more $$ and more time

Peter 147


:) thanks Peter147, appreciate this. off to research their website.
cheers
 
I have also looked at setting up SMSF but after looking at CBUS and other Industry funds that will be available later this year, I could not justify cost, ongoing fees, and continous government changes for SMSF....in my case anyway.

Is it just me or are the self interest lobby groups starting to place sufficent pressure on the government for them to keep chipping away at the benefits of SMSF's? :eek:
 
HI All

For those interested C Bus are in todays australian as so.

CBus tackles super threat
Tim Boreham
January 17, 2005

CONSTRUCTION industry super fund CBus is readying for the upcoming super choice regime by expanding its member base from blue-singleted blokes in hard hats to white-collar workers such as architects and engineers.

Under new chief executive Sandy Grant, CBus also plans to woo the potentially huge client base of self-employed tradesmen and sub-contractors who are not part of the net of award workers generally captured by the industry fund. "It has been a missed opportunity to date," Mr Grant said.

"It is a good defensive strategy in terms of choice, in that if you get some of the high-flyers the others will follow."

He said the upcoming introduction of super choice on July 1 should not necessarily be seen as a threat to industry funds but as an opportunity to promote their virtues to a wider audience.

While industry funds have been prescribed under collective industrial agreements and awards, from July 1 employers not party to federal awards will have to allow workers to nominate a fund of their choice for the compulsory 9 per cent contributions.

Mr Grant said most of the fund's 385,000 members – whose account balances averaged $14,000 – wanted the investment options to be as simple as possible.

"But we have 3500 members with more than $100,000 and there are a lot of people who want a more sophisticated product," he said.

"We are looking to develop our public offer with a do-it-yourself-type proposition with more flexibility and investment and insurance options."

Mr Grant said CBus also wanted to decrease member attrition by encouraging casual building workers to continue contributing even if they leave the industry.

He said CBus would continue to focus on the construction industry, rather than trying to woo workers from other industries as some other industry funds have done.

Mr Grant said the best way to counter the super choice threat was to maintain high investment returns.

The fund, which not surprisingly has a weighting to property investments, credited 14.5 per cent to members of the balanced fund last year. The balanced option has averaged a 10.1 per cent return over 20 years.

With $6.3 billion in assets under management, CBus ranks as Australia's fourth biggest industry fund.

Mr Grant said he expected more mergers along the lines of the tie-up between Australian Retirement Fund, the second-biggest industry fund and third largest player STA.

He said while CBus would talk to another fund making merger overtures, CBus had no "predatory interest".

"We are more interested in knocking off (retail funds) AMP and BT than taking over an industry fund," he said.

Smaller funds would be driven to mergers because of increased regulatory pressures, such as the need to devise a formal risk management plan and for trustees to hold a financial services licence.

Mr Grant was previously chief executive of the industry fund umbrella body, Industry Fund Services, for seven years and before that spent 31 years at Colonial (now part of the Commonwealth Bank) in a number of roles.

"I have been around super for 39 years (but) my real thrill will be setting the fund up for the next stage of growth," he said.

CBus held a "special place" because it was one of the first industry funds set up after the introduction of the compulsory super regime by the Hawke-Keating governments.


FYI I am about to contact them to look into wife being part of my company fund whilst being emplyed elsewhere? Will report back.

Peter 147
 
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