Tax for Australian citizen buying in New Zealand

Hi All
We have just been on a holiday in NZ and bought two IP there. One for $69.500 which will rent for $135 pw, the other $131.500 which will rent for $210 pw. We also have one in Queensland (just had settlement) which cost $175.000 and rents for $185 pw. Both my partner and I work F/T in Aus. I got caught up in the exitement of it all and didn't think about the tax process. I just phoned my accountant here in Aus. He is not sure what the situation is with tax. Can anyone shed any light on this one please?
Cheers Blossom
 
sorry forgot to ask,which part of nz did you buy in?weve just been there for a month and are moving back shortly to continue our property purchases.i also did read on one of those sites that if you make a profit when you sell in nz,you will be liable for cgt in oz.a lot of investors get around this by setting up nz company,and investing through that.
 
Blossom

1) Are you an australian resident for oz tax purposes or are you are New zealand resident for new zealand tax purposes? From your post . .. it seems you are an Australian ,working and living in Australia - but bought NZ properties on a holiday visit in NZ?

2) Did you buy the NZ properties in a nz incorporated company, an australian incorporated company, a family trust with an australian incorporated company, or a family trust with a nz incorporated company - -- - or other structure? Sounds like you bought them in your individual names.


3) how did u fund the purchases in NZ? Loan from NZ bank..or loan from an australian bank ... or used your own cash/loc?
Regards

WB
 
Hi

These are very interesting questions ,which unfortunately I can't answer. However I might suggest that you contact the current Premier of New South Wales and ask him how he made his recent property purchases which I believe he is paying NO tax on whist we are expected to pay the extortionate increases in Land Tax that his Government has forced upon us.
 
[Hi Fitguy. We bought the first house in Westport and the second in Christchurch. The tax stuff is a bit sticky. I have seen other notes posted on this site from people who have bought in NZ. I thought it would be two separate tax returns but was unsure about describing the overseas investment info. Setting up a company sounds a bit scary however I am open to possibilities if need be.
cheers Blossom

QUOTE]Originally posted by fitguy
sorry forgot to ask,which part of nz did you buy in?weve just been there for a month and are moving back shortly to continue our property purchases.i also did read on one of those sites that if you make a profit when you sell in nz,you will be liable for cgt in oz.a lot of investors get around this by setting up nz company,and investing through that. [/QUOTE]
 
[Hi Waverlybay. Yes we are Australians working and living in Australia and just happened to pick a couple of good deals in NZ. We have done this is our individual names and not as a company. We have applied for finance to 80% in NZ and will fund the other through Aus finance. The banks only lend 80% to those who live outside NZ.

Cheers Blossom
QUOTE]Originally posted by Waverlybay
Blossom

1) Are you an australian resident for oz tax purposes or are you are New zealand resident for new zealand tax purposes? From your post . .. it seems you are an Australian ,working and living in Australia - but bought NZ properties on a holiday visit in NZ?

2) Did you buy the NZ properties in a nz incorporated company, an australian incorporated company, a family trust with an australian incorporated company, or a family trust with a nz incorporated company - -- - or other structure? Sounds like you bought them in your individual names.


3) how did u fund the purchases in NZ? Loan from NZ bank..or loan from an australian bank ... or used your own cash/loc?
Regards

WB
[/QUOTE]
 
Originally posted by Blossom
Hi All
We have just been on a holiday in NZ and bought two IP there. One for $69.500 which will rent for $135 pw, the other $131.500 which will rent for $210 pw. We also have one in Queensland (just had settlement) which cost $175.000 and rents for $185 pw. Both my partner and I work F/T in Aus. I got caught up in the exitement of it all and didn't think about the tax process. I just phoned my accountant here in Aus. He is not sure what the situation is with tax. Can anyone shed any light on this one please?
Cheers Blossom
You will have to declare profits as income, and pay tax on them. If you made a loss however, you could not offset that against Oz income- only against any overseas "passive" income. Losses can be carried forward though.
 
Re: Re: Tax for Australian citizen buying in New Zealand

[Hi Geoffw
My understanding is that we have to put in a tax return in NZ because we have an income from property. We will of course be showing a loss. I suppose what I am wondering is will we get a tax refund for that loss from the NZ tax office? If so do we have to declare the income and refund on Aus tax return? Will we get taxed in Aus on the overseas income? Very confusing in the overall.
Cheers Blossom

QUOTE]Originally posted by geoffw
You will have to declare profits as income, and pay tax on them. If you made a loss however, you could not offset that against Oz income- only against any overseas "passive" income. Losses can be carried forward though. [/QUOTE]
 
Tax

Hi Guys,
So in Blossoms situation (or others alike) which purchasing structure mentioned above would have been best? Aussie trust or NZ company with individual names as benificiary?

Blossom did you find it simple to get finance in NZ not being a citizen?

Thankyou
Starting out
 
Blossom said:
[Hi Geoffw
My understanding is that we have to put in a tax return in NZ because we have an income from property. We will of course be showing a loss. I suppose what I am wondering is will we get a tax refund for that loss from the NZ tax office? If so do we have to declare the income and refund on Aus tax return? Will we get taxed in Aus on the overseas income? Very confusing in the overall.
Cheers Blossom
Blossom,

I'm not an expert, but just comparing with my experience in England.

I did not have to declare income from England, because I gave them a statement to show that my total income from England was below the taxable threshold. I assume something similar may be applicable from NZ- except that you may actually have to lodge a return. You may or may not have to pay tax. I did not pay any tax in the UK on my property. (it was heavily negatively geared).

As an Australian resident, I had to declare any profit (not income) on my tax return. However, in my case, the loan was with a UK bank, so I don't know how I would have gone if it was an Oz loan. If I made a loss (which I did) I could not offset the loss against my Australian income. I could carry losses forward, but I sold the property for a very small profit (12%) after having owned it for 11 years.

I believe I still have losses I can offset against future O/S losses, but that doesn't interest me just now.

It's all very similar to having a property in a trust really. I'm in that situation now- I can't offset depreciation against my private income- but that's OK, as this property is positively geared.
 
I have a couple of properties in NZ which I decided to buy through my Aussie discretionary trust. There was no advantage to setting up a NZ registered trust or a company structure like an LAQC (Loss Attributing Qualifying Company). Using my existing trust I gained the asset protection and tax benefits I am getting in Australia so I went with that.

NZ tax returns are still required on any NZ sourced income, a null one for the corporate trustee and one for the trust itself. Income is taxed at the standard 33% but any losses are accumulated in NZ to be offset against future income in NZ. If tax is paid a credit voucher is issued by the IRD to be included in the trusts tax return here so there is no double taxation.

There are a couple of issues though. Although there is no CGT payable in NZ, any profits you make on the sale of a property have to be recorded in your Australian tax return as income and you will pay Australian CGT on this profit. This can be minimised of course but it’s good to be aware of. Also, if you sub-divide a section to build a new dwelling and on-sell it you will be charged income tax on this as you are running a business. If you unit-title a block of apartments (like strata titling) within 10 years of purchase you will pay income tax on the profits from the sale of that block or any of the individual flats whenever that is unless you can prove you did it to increase rental return. So adding another dwelling on a section and renting it out is OK but just splitting up the titles on a block of flats for finance reasons is not. Also if you claim depreciation on everything using a QS report and then sell for a profit, the amount you have claimed over the years is calculated and you will pay income tax on this unless you can prove that all the growth gained in the property was purely in land value. Lastly there are the thin capitalisation rules for foreign investment. If you buy anything via a company and the ownership of that company is less than 50% NZ resident for tax purposes, you will only be able to borrow 75% LVR of that asset. Any more than that and you will not be able to claim the interest costs on that loan.

So it’s not as simple as everyone thinks and there is a lot to be aware of before making the leap. Get yourselves very good international tax accountants both here and in NZ before you take the leap and plan your investments carefully. Raw numbers don’t tell the whole story.
 
Thanks so much Owen for your response. I have been madly asking millions of questions to research if its worth while.
I did not know that you pay CGT in Australia for the sale over there.
Im also having heaps of trouble trying to find information similar to residex reports. The top 100 predicted postcodes report have helped us so much here at home, but i dont think NZ has anything like this. Ive emailed practically every link i find.
I understand we need to put in 20% deposit from Aust, so i was looking for areas that have high capital growth, so after settlement, refiance to give the 20% back to us and make the 100% tax deductable.
Do you know anywhere that has this info????
Thanks so much Owen,
Regards
Starting Out
 
Big disclaimer time again - check everything I wrote yourself with your own people. This was just what I found out and is appicable to me but may not be for your situation. A call to the ATO/IRD (NZ) can help answer a lot of your questions officially too.

As for price information - you are right. It is really hard to find that stuuf out in NZ. The best place is KPI magazine http://www.propertyinvestor.co.nz/ which has the same type of growth/median price tables in the back as API magazine does over here. The other source is the agents. I've had really good experiances with NZ agents and have had very good information provided by them.

Time to make some relationships.
 
Hi we have a couple of properties in our own name in New Zealand that do run at a profit and that income is just included in our tax return as foreign income. We are currently looking at other structures for purchsining there that can cause the profit to be taxed in New Zealand. Without stamp duty and cgt transfers are a little more forgiving than in Australia. Any one got knowledge of best structure for NZ love to hear it.
 
Hi Starting out,

I found this document on Property Talk
Web site.

Great information for some areas of NZ, mainly the larger cities. Covers cap growth, population increases and average house prices. The property talk site (if you have not been there) has some great information and an active forum.
 
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