Tenants being difficult

[Kael]

Hi all.

Just wondering if anyone can assist me with something - I own a newly built property down in Melbourne, which I rented out as soon as it was built. After 3 months of a house being built, the builder obviously does the 3 month inspection and fixes any problems.

The problem I'm having is that my tenants have given me the list of problems, which I have forwarded to my builder. The builder got in touch with my real estate agent and the tenants but the tenants are being difficult and saying they will not let the maintenance happen until they move out after their lease.

Is there any way I can get the repairs done or do I really need to wait until the tenant moves out? :/

 

[Jamie M]

You're not wrong about them being difficult....they give you a list of problems but won't let you fix them.....

Your property manager should be able to advise on the best course of action.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[kathryn d]

Not sure about your area, but we give our tenants a written notice that we will be entering in 24 hrs to do maintenance. Tenants are not required to be there.
If it is something that a tenant has asked for, and it isn't urgent,we suggest a time, if they refuse, we do nothing.

 

[Kael]

Jamie M - Sorry, I didn't clarify this in my first post, but my property manager has asked me if I can convince the builder to wait until when the tenants move out in January to do the repairs. Surely this wouldn't be the best option? :s

Kathryn - Only difficulty here is, if I wait too long, I'm worried that the builder won't repair the issues, as it is past the 3 months (although it is now past the 3 months...). Considering I don't need to pay anything for the builder to fix them now, I'd rather get it done now. If the builder says they cannot fix it once the tenants move out, it'll cost me a small portion of money to get that stuff fixed.

 

[kathryn d]

Jamie M - Sorry, I didn't clarify this in my first post, but my property manager has asked me if I can convince the builder to wait until when the tenants move out in January to do the repairs. Surely this wouldn't be the best option? :s

Kathryn - Only difficulty here is, if I wait too long, I'm worried that the builder won't repair the issues, as it is past the 3 months (although it is now past the 3 months...). Considering I don't need to pay anything for the builder to fix them now, I'd rather get it done now. If the builder says they cannot fix it once the tenants move out, it'll cost me a small portion of money to get that stuff fixed.

Does the NSW Act provide any access to the property for LLs to do maintenance by giving a certain written notice period?

 

[BMan]

maybe a clause in the contract is required for anyone in this situation for next time..?

surely u should be able to enter the property for maintenance after due notice?

 

[kathryn d]

Entry without consent – permitted frequencies and notice periods

Purpose Maximum frequency Minimum notice
To inspect the premises 4 times in any 12-month period 7 days written notice each time
To carry out or assess the need for:
– repairs/maintenance (non-urgent)
– work to meet statutory health/safety obligations (none – as required) 2 days each time



I think this will apply to you...so you to provide 2 days notice
I got it from here
http://www.tenants.org.au/publish/factsheet-08-access-privacy/index.php

Sorry..just noticed your IP is in Victoria...will need to look further.

 

[Alex SC]

Hi all.

Just wondering if anyone can assist me with something - I own a newly built property down in Melbourne, which I rented out as soon as it was built. After 3 months of a house being built, the builder obviously does the 3 month inspection and fixes any problems.

The problem I'm having is that my tenants have given me the list of problems, which I have forwarded to my builder. The builder got in touch with my real estate agent and the tenants but the tenants are being difficult and saying they will not let the maintenance happen until they move out after their lease.

Is there any way I can get the repairs done or do I really need to wait until the tenant moves out? :/

Really depends on how your property management has the contract drawn up. Here in the USA we would make sure we set a date.Give the tenant 48 hr notice then take care of the problem. I do see alot of people think tenants are head aches but lets look at the tenants for a minute. Is there a reason why they want to wait. Always put there shoes on for a minute and see if you can get the same answer .

just my two cents

Alex

 

[Goofy]

Hi there,

i mainly work with brand new properties and hence deal with builders/developers all the time.

With regards to your legal rights about getting defects fixed up if you wait - as long as the defects have been noted within the required period the the builder is required to fix them. The builder is also required to come back and fix any of those issues again if they raise their head in the future (i.e. leaking shower, reported in defect period, repaired, then faulty again after the defect period, they are required to come back again)

However without knowing who the builder is, you run the risk of them going out of business or any number of other nasties could occur. What happens if your tenant stays there for 5 years? I wouldn't want to wait that long for the defects to be rectified.

It is hard to gauge an appropriate repines without knowing what kind of defects you are talking about - are they items that could further damage the property (again using leaking shower - if left unattended this could damage surround plaster and woodwork), are they major works that would cause severe disruption (i.e. replacing the bathroom tiles because they haven't been laid properly and the tenants can't use the bathroom for a week)

You are within your legal rights to access the property for the purposes of carrying out maintenance, therefore you can technically serve a 24 entry notice, however i would be more inclined to give the tenants a week or so notice and try to ensure that all of the trades that are required to access are lined up to go in on the same day so their level of disruption in minimised.

My recommendation would be to get the defects repaired now not when the tenants move out.

Please feel free to drop me a private message if you need further advice, this is my area of specialty

 

[softmonkey]

I do see alot of people think tenants are head aches but lets look at the tenants for a minute. Is there a reason why they want to wait. Always put there shoes on for a minute and see if you can get the same answer .

In their shoes I'm thinking, trump card to play when you want to exit the lease early. "We supplied a list of problems but NONE of them have been fixed!".

 

[Jody in Darwin]

Hi Kael,

Ask your property manager a few more questions. Find out why they want it put off until they move out. If it's just because it's inconvenient to them, that's not acceptable in my opinion.

Another thing to consider is: will the defects eventually cause further damage if not attended to promptly?

Sounds like Goofy has had plenty of experience in this area - I'd send a PM if I were you

Good luck with it.

Kind regards,
Jody

 

[Sez]

You said that the property was in Melbourne? Have your PM line up a time with the builder to attend the property and then issue the tenants with a notice of entry for repairs and maintenance to be carried out. Make sure your PM meets the builder there with keys so that they can get access if the tenants decide to be difficult and not let anyone in. Generally there isn't anything TOO disruptive that comes up at this stage so you really shouldn't have too many complaints from the tenants.

Finally - when these tenants move out do the happy dance.

If for any reason you can't get access according to the notice of entry for repairs then your PM can take the tenant to VCAT over a general dispute or breach them and try again and again BUT if your tenants are moving out in January then they'll be gone before you get a chance in VCAT . Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[Lil Skater]

As Sez says, there is a notice of entry specifically for repairs.

Although, I wouldn't be particularly happy if my PM suggested to wait, rather than just doing their job.

Have they conducted the first routine inspection yet?

Seems strange the tenants requesting maintenance but not allowing access.

 

[dan c]

Sounds like your PM is going down the path of least resistance.

You are well within your rights to issue a notice for repairs, make sure your PM knows that is what you want, and you won't wait untiil the end of the lease.

 

[Kael]

Thank you to everyone whom has given me all this info and advise! Thank you especially to Goofy, for all that extra advice too.

Ask your property manager a few more questions. Find out why they want it put off until they move out. If it's just because it's inconvenient to them, that's not acceptable in my opinion.

Another thing to consider is: will the defects eventually cause further damage if not attended to promptly?

My PM has told me it is because "they didn’t want any tradesman through the property due to their experience of bad tradesmanship on the previous encounter."

As for the the current defects, they include small things, but one of them is a leak which is apparently leaking onto the ensuite and main bedrooms floor.

You said that the property was in Melbourne? Have your PM line up a time with the builder to attend the property and then issue the tenants with a notice of entry for repairs and maintenance to be carried out. Make sure your PM meets the builder there with keys so that they can get access if the tenants decide to be difficult and not let anyone in. Generally there isn't anything TOO disruptive that comes up at this stage so you really shouldn't have too many complaints from the tenants.

This is what has happened so far. I requested the 3 month inspection. The tenants highlighted a list of issues since they rented it out after it was built. I sent this list in to my builder and they got in touch with me. I forwarded on my PM's details to the builder, whom got in contact with my PM. My PM then gave the contact details for the tenants to the builder, whom contacted the tenants. Tenants then told the builder they would not allow him to come through due to "their experience of bad tradesmanship on the previous encounter." I contacted my PM two weeks later, as had not heard any details from him since telling him the builder would be in contact with him. My PM then told me the situation, with how the tenant had not agreed and then my PM requested me to ask the builder if it would be okay to get the jobs done once the current tenants have moved out in January.

As Sez says, there is a notice of entry specifically for repairs.

Although, I wouldn't be particularly happy if my PM suggested to wait, rather than just doing their job.

Have they conducted the first routine inspection yet?

Seems strange the tenants requesting maintenance but not allowing access.

Thanks for that

I was thinking same thing around PM suggesting me to contact builder and get it done afterwards. Frustrated me.

Routine inspection has been completed after the tenants were in for 3 months.

Sounds like your PM is going down the path of least resistance.

You are well within your rights to issue a notice for repairs, make sure your PM knows that is what you want, and you won't wait untiil the end of the lease.

I've emailed him and told him that I do want it done and I want it to be completed over the next two weeks, and that I need an update next week. Is that too much to ask? :/ To be honest, I'm sick and tired of chasing this up. I've been doing so for almost 2 months now and nothing has been resolved. I feel as though I am paying the PM to do barely anything :/

 

[Dazz]

I feel as though I am paying the PM to do barely anything

You're not alone in that dept.

 

[kathryn d]

But the PM will teach you everything you need to know..just keep sking questions.

Sorry..being sarcastic...

Yes, you are managing your PM.
That is what most here seem to do. YOu might as well learn the rules and do it yourself and save money.

Good luck anyways.

 

[Lil Skater]

Two months? And you've been doing the run around for your PM?!

Crazy.

Have you considered looking for a new PM? I'd let them know, via email and CC director of the company in, that you are not happy with service provided and if notice of repairs isn't issued to the tenant Monday with works not completed before expiry date that they will be paying all fees associated with attending VCAT on your behalf. Once that's over and done with start looking around.

In my experience dealing with builders to manage defects is easy peasy! Tenants highlight a problem, I send an email to the builder to advise and a courtesy email to the landlord.

Follow up with tenants in two weeks to see if completed (as long as its nothing urgent). Done, simple, no stress!

Re - leak into main bedroom, I would classify this as urgent as it can cause significant damage over time especially over four months! (Just to clarify a small leak isn't classified urgent in legislation and does not need to be rectified immediately but as a form of protection to you I would certainly make this a priority just incase).

Good luck!

 

[Kael]

That's an interesting comment you make... I have been considering maybe changing PM's but wasn't sure whether to do it or not. For one, I've only had the property for 5 months (although 5 months is surely enough time, isn't it?).

If I was to change PM, how do I go about doing it?

 

[Lil Skater]

Simple, contact other agents in the area and have a quick chat to them. Pass on your current agents details to them and they will arrange an appraisal time. Expect a call from your current PM after the first phone call of a prospective new PM.

With the appraisal, you'll get an information pack posted to you, along with a price they beleive the property to be worth - which helps I your tenants are planning on shifting out in the neat future.

Then, the agent that you go to will notify the current agent and give a few days notice they will be taking the property to ensure the files are ready to be handed over. The old agent will then prepare all the documents (leases, bond lodgement receipt, application form, condition report, any notices of increase, VCAT etc).

If you were to make them issue notice of repairs tomorrow as suggested I would let the current agent deal with those problems and represent you at VCAT first. Even if they're useless, they are much better off to handle any upcoming VCAT hearings than the new agent.

Hope that helps! I may be able to suggest some PM's in your area if you let me know where abouts it is.