Time to earn some Money
- Thread starter Soulnafien
- Start date
I've been contracting for seven or eight years now.
The plus points are that you're outside of office politics to a certain extent, the money is good, and I believe that the risk involved in operating this way is significantly less than people who're in permanent jobs claim.
The downside is that there's limited progression in how you can progress your career (I've toyed with permanent roles in order to move into project management), and clients will only pay you so much (probably $200K to $300K in Australia). I'm currently trying to figure out how to get out of it for that reason.
Oh, going back to the CEO I was at school with, I was chatting to my brother earlier and opined that he didn't strike me as being that bright. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't stupid, but there were number of my contemporaries who were distinctly smarter.
My brother agreed, and reckoned it was the old boy network. I think that it might be more attitude, personality, or perhaps perceived leadership skills.
I'm sure that there's a parable there, but being a genius engineer isn't necessarily going to get you to the top of the proverbial greasy pole.
The plus points are that you're outside of office politics to a certain extent, the money is good, and I believe that the risk involved in operating this way is significantly less than people who're in permanent jobs claim.
The downside is that there's limited progression in how you can progress your career (I've toyed with permanent roles in order to move into project management), and clients will only pay you so much (probably $200K to $300K in Australia). I'm currently trying to figure out how to get out of it for that reason.
Oh, going back to the CEO I was at school with, I was chatting to my brother earlier and opined that he didn't strike me as being that bright. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't stupid, but there were number of my contemporaries who were distinctly smarter.
My brother agreed, and reckoned it was the old boy network. I think that it might be more attitude, personality, or perhaps perceived leadership skills.
I'm sure that there's a parable there, but being a genius engineer isn't necessarily going to get you to the top of the proverbial greasy pole.
I agree totally with all this.
CEOs are more often than not just the most vocal/passionate or skilled at sales and influencing people rather than raw intelligence. You see it all the time. Sometimes you will get super intelligent CEOs but quite often there are people much more intelligent within the organisation. But that's ok, the CEO can't be everything.
In my own career (software engineer / IT) I started out heavily in the hands on technical stuff but realised years ago that despite your brain being revved to the max and creating some wonderful things, you hit a ceiling where you will always be a "programmer" or "web developer" and you can't really progress. Sure there are "architect" roles (which I've done too), but even still that's just a more senior hands on role and is another ceiling. I always had the passion for the people side and getting in to management so jumped across and got into that side of it fairly young, but also kept my technical skills fairly fresh and current. Now I'm on the management path where there are still several further opportunities up the ladder above my current role. I'm hardly touching anything technical hands on, but just overseeing large projects and doing people management and motivation. I get brought in as a design authority on certain systems and to guide the technical guys from time to time, but generally don't need to.
I actually enjoy this side more too because you can essentially teach a (smart) monkey to do technical work, but I find this side so much more challenging (and rewarding) when you are bringing 20 people together to deliver a major body of work.
I too was previously contracting for quite a while because the money was awesome and the responsibility was low, but have gone back to being permanent because of the career ladder factor. If I stayed contracting forever I was starting to just end up a "bum on a seat" with no real influence over my own career path etc. I figure you can hop around a bit and chop and change every now and then to keep adjusting your course..
Good on you for wanting to start planning for the future.
You sound quite keen to do something now without yet having a plan in place. My advice to you is to be wary of investment companies that come to town providing "great investment opportunities". There are many companies spruiking their investment properties, share portfolios etc who pray on those with big incomes but no investment knowledge or time to research due to their hectic FIFO jobs. Unless you've done your research, stay right away from these guys.
I have a client working FIFO who bought 2 properties in the mining tow. He is working in. It is much cheaper for him to own than rent and when he finishes his contract he will own a positive cash flow investment property. The second one he just bought is well into positive territory. The only knowledge he had was a bit of research of the local market and keeping an ear out for private sales in the town. In a years time when he finishes up he'll be earning less money back home but has used his income wisely to buy some good investments. He did save hard for the first 6 months for a deposit. So if u get some savings behind you and use your week off to research and relax you could also start planning your future.
And as for being a CEO, why would you want to be chained to your desk and your workplace 24/7. By getting some good investments now you could be earning enough income between these and a standard engineering role by that age.
You sound quite keen to do something now without yet having a plan in place. My advice to you is to be wary of investment companies that come to town providing "great investment opportunities". There are many companies spruiking their investment properties, share portfolios etc who pray on those with big incomes but no investment knowledge or time to research due to their hectic FIFO jobs. Unless you've done your research, stay right away from these guys.
I have a client working FIFO who bought 2 properties in the mining tow. He is working in. It is much cheaper for him to own than rent and when he finishes his contract he will own a positive cash flow investment property. The second one he just bought is well into positive territory. The only knowledge he had was a bit of research of the local market and keeping an ear out for private sales in the town. In a years time when he finishes up he'll be earning less money back home but has used his income wisely to buy some good investments. He did save hard for the first 6 months for a deposit. So if u get some savings behind you and use your week off to research and relax you could also start planning your future.
And as for being a CEO, why would you want to be chained to your desk and your workplace 24/7. By getting some good investments now you could be earning enough income between these and a standard engineering role by that age.
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There are a lot of very rich "wage slaves". I read a study where they showed that the majority of the top 1% of wealthiest Americans were actually employees.
Nah I do my time and learn what I need to out of a given job and then hop across to somewhere else for more money. The most I've stayed with a single employer is 3 years. It's by far the easiest way, much harder to get promotions internally by hanging around forever in the same place.. I'm not a born and bread corporate suck-up, but its my vessel to obtaining cash flow.
this dude hasn't been back to pick up any of the gold we left for him... I think he is probably just another dreamer... He'll probably be back in a few years, still in the same financial position and a few stone heavier.
this dude hasn't been back to pick up any of the gold we left for him... I think he is probably just another dreamer... He'll probably be back in a few years, still in the same financial position and a few stone heavier.
Maybe his 1-week break finished and he's back to the mines for 3-weeks.
I think you're confusing the word "rich" with the word "wealthy".
By it's very definition, "slaves" can never be wealthy.
They exhibit no autonomy, and have to tow the corporate line, whatever their superiors set for them.
They also lack any freedom of their time......they work whenever they are asked to - which is from early in the morning to very late at night, most days.
Rich wage slaves therefore are not wealthy.
The authors of the seminal "Millionaire Next Door" series, both post-doctoral fellows in the subject, have detailed and extensive studies on thousands upon thousands of wealthy American millionaires.
Their study overwhelming concluded that business owners were massively over represented in the very wealthy category. Employees made up an insignificant %age.
Their detailed published findings after conducting thousands of interviews over a lengthy period are in direct contradiction with the results of your unreferenced 'study'.
Wow thanks for all the replies, that was fast and so many.
I definitely think saving is a huge key to this haha, need some money to make money.
Thanks for the perspective on "Perhaps you havent yet got what you want, because maybe you dont really want it, or dont know what "IT" actually is for you" - I've always tried to think outside the box, but I guess I never really thought of it like this. Good to have some different approaches to the situation.
Definitely places for me to improve my managerial skills on, I have been pretty good with managing workforce, just need to move up along the chain enough to start managing professionals. Construction is definitely something I want and have wanted to do my entire life, but like all things there are good and bad days.
I guess something to note as well is if the company isn't providing or offering, it's probably time to move on.
Now that it has been pointed out, I guess I have got a bit to mature into. I think my main problem is not that I don't know how and the process to manage my money (like save), its more the fact that I can't control it because I like to spend. Definitely something to work on for me.
I should also look into a financial planner once I have some money. Probs should also consolidate my super into something good.
Yes I should start reading more books as well. Something I have been neglecting.
I should value every bit I save, every bit does count and adds up, and yes sacrifices must be made to move ahead and it looks like many more will be needed to reach my goals. I'm definitely confident in the workplace, I think as an engineer you have to be otherwise people will just question your every decision. I of course always accept advice from my anyone who I respect regardless of rank. However one thing which I probably didn't explain is - some people by dumb I mean they do really dumb things for example I had just built a train platform and another engineer decided to cut it in half because they forgot to put a service cord under it. Unfortunately I just find it hard to respect these kind of people.
I am definitely getting good advice from everyone on this thread - thanks everyone. It's true that I shouldn't limit my list, it does depend on how much I want to do as well for sure, the china trip is definitely something I will mull over a bit.
I should take my health into greater consideration, as equally important as finance and my career. I mean what are the consequences of being slim and having a six pack. Too many girls hanging off you? I guess its trying to find a balance at the moment between career, health, saving and investing. Working on what needs most work first.
It's also true I need to develop my skill sets not just as an engineer but as a manager. I think being able to communicate effectively and having a good personality is crucial to being a CEO. Its pretty easy to get the workforce laughing I reckon, but definitely harder with my senior management. Something which I am trying to figure out how to do.
Once again, thanks for all the great replies and responses. I really appreciate it. The CEO argument of good vs bad is probably more to do with probability of success. I think a big stigma around the CEO argument vs just Investing is that the probability of becoming a CEO is very low and you need a certain skillset whereas having good investment portfolios is more to do with good saving habits, research and some good timing. The leaning on the wall/looking up at bird shitting on you metaphors probably both occurs, it would just depend who, what company and most likely when/what economy is like. The rat race is definitely crap, but thats why there is always the chance for a side portfolio, it just means if I am chasing CEO I can have side investments but probably never run my own business. Once again there is probably no distinct right or wrong answer for me at this stage, it is something I need to work towards. One step at a time. Saving Money + Getting Healthy.
I definitely think saving is a huge key to this haha, need some money to make money.
Thanks for the perspective on "Perhaps you havent yet got what you want, because maybe you dont really want it, or dont know what "IT" actually is for you" - I've always tried to think outside the box, but I guess I never really thought of it like this. Good to have some different approaches to the situation.
Definitely places for me to improve my managerial skills on, I have been pretty good with managing workforce, just need to move up along the chain enough to start managing professionals. Construction is definitely something I want and have wanted to do my entire life, but like all things there are good and bad days.
I guess something to note as well is if the company isn't providing or offering, it's probably time to move on.
Now that it has been pointed out, I guess I have got a bit to mature into. I think my main problem is not that I don't know how and the process to manage my money (like save), its more the fact that I can't control it because I like to spend. Definitely something to work on for me.
I should also look into a financial planner once I have some money. Probs should also consolidate my super into something good.
Yes I should start reading more books as well. Something I have been neglecting.
I should value every bit I save, every bit does count and adds up, and yes sacrifices must be made to move ahead and it looks like many more will be needed to reach my goals. I'm definitely confident in the workplace, I think as an engineer you have to be otherwise people will just question your every decision. I of course always accept advice from my anyone who I respect regardless of rank. However one thing which I probably didn't explain is - some people by dumb I mean they do really dumb things for example I had just built a train platform and another engineer decided to cut it in half because they forgot to put a service cord under it. Unfortunately I just find it hard to respect these kind of people.
I am definitely getting good advice from everyone on this thread - thanks everyone. It's true that I shouldn't limit my list, it does depend on how much I want to do as well for sure, the china trip is definitely something I will mull over a bit.
I should take my health into greater consideration, as equally important as finance and my career. I mean what are the consequences of being slim and having a six pack. Too many girls hanging off you?
I guess its trying to find a balance at the moment between career, health, saving and investing. Working on what needs most work first.It's also true I need to develop my skill sets not just as an engineer but as a manager. I think being able to communicate effectively and having a good personality is crucial to being a CEO. Its pretty easy to get the workforce laughing I reckon, but definitely harder with my senior management. Something which I am trying to figure out how to do.
Once again, thanks for all the great replies and responses. I really appreciate it. The CEO argument of good vs bad is probably more to do with probability of success. I think a big stigma around the CEO argument vs just Investing is that the probability of becoming a CEO is very low and you need a certain skillset whereas having good investment portfolios is more to do with good saving habits, research and some good timing. The leaning on the wall/looking up at bird shitting on you metaphors probably both occurs, it would just depend who, what company and most likely when/what economy is like. The rat race is definitely crap, but thats why there is always the chance for a side portfolio, it just means if I am chasing CEO I can have side investments but probably never run my own business. Once again there is probably no distinct right or wrong answer for me at this stage, it is something I need to work towards. One step at a time. Saving Money + Getting Healthy.
"I will" consult a financial planner.
"I will" start reading more books.
"I will" value what I save.
"I will" look after my health. Health is number 1; career, saving and investing you can work out the priorities.I am definitely getting good advice from everyone on this thread - thanks everyone. It's true that I shouldn't limit my list, it does depend on how much I want to do as well for sure, the china trip is definitely something I will mull over a bit.
I should take my health into greater consideration, as equally important as finance and my career. I mean what are the consequences of being slim and having a six pack. Too many girls hanging off you?
"Getting Healthy + Saving Money"
Just thought I'd help you be a bit more decisive!
Seriously, though, if you keep thinking you "should", nothing will change. You MUST be saying to yourself "I will" and then put thoughts into actions.
Both Recruit2 and Dazz make valid points about the 1%.
I've heard the comments about most top earners being employees, but I can't remember the source. Financial Samurai has a post that includes a number of examples of them, and some (lower-level) entrepreneurial roles, such as financial blogging.
The cliché is that you'll never be rich working for someone else, which is where Dazz is coming from. I think that a better description would be you probably won't become rich working for someone else.
The fact is that above a certain level, skills are seen as being in short supply, and are bid up accordingly. CEOs, sport stars and the like are paid an enormous amount, and quite often disproportionately more than someone who's slightly worse at the job, because that small difference is worth millions or billions to their employer.
Soulnafien, why wasn't a service cord installed under the platform? Was a mistake made in checking the drawings? Did you speak to your colleagues about the design? Was it a failure in communication?
It's easy to point the finger at someone else, but a properly run project should have picked up that something needed to be done. It sounds like it could have been a systematic or process failure, rather than an individual overlooking it. There's been quite a lot of research, particularly in the medical sector, demonstrating that catastrophic outcomes are down to a series of small mistakes that compound.
I've heard the comments about most top earners being employees, but I can't remember the source. Financial Samurai has a post that includes a number of examples of them, and some (lower-level) entrepreneurial roles, such as financial blogging.
The cliché is that you'll never be rich working for someone else, which is where Dazz is coming from. I think that a better description would be you probably won't become rich working for someone else.
The fact is that above a certain level, skills are seen as being in short supply, and are bid up accordingly. CEOs, sport stars and the like are paid an enormous amount, and quite often disproportionately more than someone who's slightly worse at the job, because that small difference is worth millions or billions to their employer.
Soulnafien, why wasn't a service cord installed under the platform? Was a mistake made in checking the drawings? Did you speak to your colleagues about the design? Was it a failure in communication?
It's easy to point the finger at someone else, but a properly run project should have picked up that something needed to be done. It sounds like it could have been a systematic or process failure, rather than an individual overlooking it. There's been quite a lot of research, particularly in the medical sector, demonstrating that catastrophic outcomes are down to a series of small mistakes that compound.
I like the Chris Rock quote, about the difference between being rich and being wealthy. He was talking about sports stars on big contracts.
"Shaq is rich. The man who signs his cheques is WEALTHY!"
Five star vote for this thread, some wisdom within!
Jim Rohn said profits are better than wages, earning a high salary and spending it all will just create a baseline consumption and lifestyle level that is hard to maintain.
With a two year saving plan that leaves you with 120k at the end that gives you plenty of time to educate yourself while you are building more capability to invest for the future, that's a pretty decent starting plan right there, adjust and improve as you build on your knowledge and experience.
Jim Rohn said profits are better than wages, earning a high salary and spending it all will just create a baseline consumption and lifestyle level that is hard to maintain.
With a two year saving plan that leaves you with 120k at the end that gives you plenty of time to educate yourself while you are building more capability to invest for the future, that's a pretty decent starting plan right there, adjust and improve as you build on your knowledge and experience.
If it's anything like the projects I work on, it was because the mining company is in such a massive rush to get rocks out of the ground that they begin the contruction process long before they complete the design process.
If anything was ever organise and planned properly their profit margins would double.
(I'm not saying the mining companies are impatient, though. Ofthen there are contracts and approvals forcing their hands.)
If you compare the cost of delaying a project while you wait for design to complete with the cost of rework, the latter pales into insignificance.
Gota look at the big picture, not just your little box.
A more experienced engineer would have installed spare conduits to allow for the services, which are always late.
It's funny, most people believe working hard is the key to becoming wealthy, when it actually has very little to do with it. I believe this is partly because most people also have no idea there are (better) ways that don't even involve work. Kerrie Packer had a taxable income of $35,000 at one point not so long ago.. My Boss, and my Wife's Boss work their asses off for little reward and are still not financially free. They run multi million dollar businesses that keep them there and still have a mortgage on their only homes. Hopefully after many years of hard work the businesses can be sold to fund retirement, as say a property investor may also do (minus alot of the work)
Thats just a couple of examples.
There are also examples of 25 year olds who earned $50,000 p/a from their jobs who went on to build Multi-million dollar property portfolios over the years and are now retired. You do the math. Thats (traditionally) 42 years ahead of the majority.. 42 years of extra freedom. I've always challenged myself and said: Why retire at traditional age? Why not do it at (insert relevant age here) ?>
You have lots of lerarning to do should you desire to be in an even remotely similar position in the near future yourself but remember this: You are still young and it can be done
Thats just a couple of examples.
There are also examples of 25 year olds who earned $50,000 p/a from their jobs who went on to build Multi-million dollar property portfolios over the years and are now retired. You do the math. Thats (traditionally) 42 years ahead of the majority.. 42 years of extra freedom. I've always challenged myself and said: Why retire at traditional age? Why not do it at (insert relevant age here) ?>
You have lots of lerarning to do should you desire to be in an even remotely similar position in the near future yourself but remember this: You are still young and it can be done
