Uni education a requirement for successful investing?

[WinstonWolfe]

I went straight into the workforce out of yr 12. Got good grades but wasn't 100% sure which of 3 careers I wanted to pursue, so on my Dad's advice I decided to work for 1-2 years. It was a good thing.

After 18mths, I was exposed to a field that really stimulated me. I phoned the company about how to get work with them, and one thing led to another and I was in. 12 mths later I started a degree at QUT (QIT in those days), 3 hours x 3 nights a week for 6 years. I lasted 1 year as I was doing 50 hours at work and the 9 hours of uni and travel was exhausting me.

I asked my boss for advice re whether I shoudl continue. At that time the degree was new and he said if I applied that 9 hours to work and tried to learn as much as I could from the executives at work, I'd probably go further.

With that, I left the course and did exactly that. Within 18 mths, I was head hunted to the hottest company in AUstralia earning 3 times as much. That led to trips to the USA and working with world leaders in the field in Chicago and NYC.

IMO, you can get an education outside of university if you have drive, energy, enthusiasm, courage, self discipline, and hell of a lot of common sense. If you lack that stuff, do a degree and get a job in the public service.

My advice to young people is to value knowledge and a trained and disciplined mind. Uni can help most to think in a more disciplined logical manner, expand your perspective on the world, and develop self discipline. But so can a good apprenticeship or craft and for many so can some hard work and overseas travel.

I suppose the point is to be really honest with yourself about what you value and how you spend your time. If you value nothing in particular and expect the govt to provide, then goof off and work and vote for a nanny state.

 

[Shaneelastic]

Wow, you learn something new every day! so is it because you are an engineer?

Nope, finance area, I bought a property in 2007, they had a deal back then that the wouldn’t go through LMI, I also know a couple more people who have benefited from this type of thing

 

[Bargain Hunter]

Haven't we been down this road before?

Basically here's what it comes down to:

1. A person's chosen profession may (or may not) require them to go to uni. There is no "uni vs no uni" argument if you want to be a doctor. Same goes if you want to be a plumber.

2. Uni can help with financial literacy, but it depends on what you study. Eg. someone who studies finance and/or accounting will be able to read a balance sheet, understand financial ratios, understand risk and return, and have a foundation for business analyis.

3. Despite (2) above, going to uni doesn't necessarily lead one to be a more successful investor than another who did not go to uni.

4. Uni can lead to a greater salary than not going to uni, IF the right course of study is lead.

Exactly. There are some careers where you can't operate (pardon the pun)without a degree, and there are otheres where a degree makes it substantially easier to get a start.

A degree in high demand is likely to lead to higher incomes.

However whether a person has a degree or not if their performance is poor chances are you won't get to stay there.

 

[Piston Broke]

I went straight into the workforce out of yr 12. Got good grades but wasn't 100% sure which of 3 careers I wanted to pursue, so on my Dad's advice I decided to work for 1-2 years. It was a good thing.

After 18mths, I was exposed to a field that really stimulated me. I phoned the company about how to get work with them, and one thing led to another and I was in. 12 mths later I started a degree at QUT (QIT in those days), 3 hours x 3 nights a week for 6 years. I lasted 1 year as I was doing 50 hours at work and the 9 hours of uni and travel was exhausting me.

I asked my boss for advice re whether I shoudl continue. At that time the degree was new and he said if I applied that 9 hours to work and tried to learn as much as I could from the executives at work, I'd probably go further.

With that, I left the course and did exactly that. Within 18 mths, I was head hunted to the hottest company in AUstralia earning 3 times as much. That led to trips to the USA and working with world leaders in the field in Chicago and NYC.

IMO, you can get an education outside of university if you have drive, energy, enthusiasm, courage, self discipline, and hell of a lot of common sense. If you lack that stuff, do a degree and get a job in the public service.

My advice to young people is to value knowledge and a trained and disciplined mind. Uni can help most to think in a more disciplined logical manner, expand your perspective on the world, and develop self discipline. But so can a good apprenticeship or craft and for many so can some hard work and overseas travel.

I suppose the point is to be really honest with yourself about what you value and how you spend your time. If you value nothing in particular and expect the govt to provide, then goof off and work and vote for a nanny state.

That's a great post WW.
There's a big difference between an education and a title.
I do believe UNI (and all schooling in general) gives a greater chance at an education, and can get you there faster.
"if you have drive, energy, enthusiasm, courage, self discipline, and hell of a lot of common sense" you will get an education anywhere anytime all the time.

 

[House_Keeper]

I went straight into the workforce out of yr 12. Got good grades but wasn't 100% sure which of 3 careers I wanted to pursue, so on my Dad's advice I decided to work for 1-2 years. It was a good thing.

After 18mths, I was exposed to a field that really stimulated me. I phoned the company about how to get work with them, and one thing led to another and I was in. 12 mths later I started a degree at QUT (QIT in those days), 3 hours x 3 nights a week for 6 years. I lasted 1 year as I was doing 50 hours at work and the 9 hours of uni and travel was exhausting me.

I asked my boss for advice re whether I shoudl continue. At that time the degree was new and he said if I applied that 9 hours to work and tried to learn as much as I could from the executives at work, I'd probably go further.

With that, I left the course and did exactly that. Within 18 mths, I was head hunted to the hottest company in AUstralia earning 3 times as much. That led to trips to the USA and working with world leaders in the field in Chicago and NYC.

IMO, you can get an education outside of university if you have drive, energy, enthusiasm, courage, self discipline, and hell of a lot of common sense. If you lack that stuff, do a degree and get a job in the public service.

My advice to young people is to value knowledge and a trained and disciplined mind. Uni can help most to think in a more disciplined logical manner, expand your perspective on the world, and develop self discipline. But so can a good apprenticeship or craft and for many so can some hard work and overseas travel.

I suppose the point is to be really honest with yourself about what you value and how you spend your time.

Great post WW.

I found that too. Although I went to uni, that mainly help met get the job & the higher salary. However, you learn far more on the job that at Uni. And if you're willing to work hard, there are plenty of opportunities.

If you value nothing in particular and expect the govt to provide, then goof off and work and vote for a nanny state.

That is so true ... for so many people in this country, who choose the security of a public sector job, even though it bores them to death and offers not much besides a secure wage. The easy way is not the most rewarding path.

From my observations personal drive matters a lot more than which Uni you went to, or whether you went to Uni at all. The main thing I learnt at Uni is that I wouldn't have missed much by not going there.

For those who didn't go to Uni, you didn't miss much. Personal drive and people skills can take you a lot further than a Uni degree.

 

[Aaron Sice]

great post WW - clearly highlights why if you're wiling to continue to learn and improve once you leave school, the world really is your oyster.

 

[rugrat]

It really depends on what you do with the degree, more then the degree itself. I have a commerce degree (majors in marketing and HRM, minors in accounting and economics), I also have a law degree. I have done nothing with them. I am not sure I ever will. I actually plan on going and getting my Dip Ed and teaching legal studies and commerce to high school students - certainly do not need my two degrees for that. And having cost me just over $40k in HECS/HELP (without the dip ed) this will likely be the most expensive teaching degree in history.

If I had my time over, I would probably still do the same thing. I still enjoy commerce and law, but have realised I actually enjoy studying more then the practical applications. The plan was always to become a lawyer, but my priorities have changed and an office job would drive me batty.

My DH Used his commerce degree and legal knowledge to get ahead quicker in the public service then he would have otherwise - so it is the practical application of the knowledge he got whilst studying: but you don't have to have a degree to be a public servant, or do his job - the background knowledge just helps, but you can get it other ways.

If you love learning, go to uni. If you need the quals for a specific career path, go to uni. Otherwise, why bother? Do what you enjoy and what interests you and you will go much further then simply following the crowd.

 

[House_Keeper]

If you love learning, go to uni.

You don't actually have to PHYSICALLY go to Uni these days if you don't need / don't care about the degree.

Many top US universities offer many of their courses lectures free on the internet as a podcast. UC Berkeley & MIT are two of them I have listened to. High quality information. I found some of them very interesting.

 

[rugrat]

OK maybe I should have said 'enroll in uni'.
I actually completed about 5 out of 10 years of my uni education as an external student, I assumed everyone knew that you didn't have to physically 'go' to uni to go to uni.

 

[House_Keeper]

You don't have to enroll either.

Plenty of high-quality lectures available in audio format through the internet

 

[boods99]

You don't have to enroll either.

Plenty of high-quality lectures available in audio format through the internet

...or you could just rock up to lectures...
I'm amazed that there are no checks in place to stop blow ins from attending. Some of the lectures I go to, there are a couple of hundred students attending. You could go to just about every lecture of a Comm degree and no one would even know!

Of course you would'nt get the little piece of paper at the end of it though...

Boods

 

[wobbycarly]

Looking back to the original question...
"Uni education a requirement for successful investing?"

Short answer is, IMO, "NO" a formal education is NOT a requirement. As pointed out, it can help (raising income from employment)

However, you need to be able to understand and calculate yield, interest, cashflow, etc. At least some level of education (mathematics) would help with this. Interpreting the numbers is where the investor education comes in.

And the informal investor education will be more important that any formal (uni) education.

Also, mindset is probably more important than education - knowing that investing is important, how to go about it, and being able to stick at it. Being willing to go against the crowd at times.

FWIW.

 

[shanh]

Uni or not is not necessarily the key to becoming a successful investor. It is more about you, yourself. The moment you decide that you desire to succeed through investing, you'll start thinking about how you'll get there being in the situation you are in now. It's just that this moment descends upon different people with different circumstances at different times, and people decide on taking different paths. Hence the diversity in the "stories" heard from previous posters.

Some people believe formal education is a waste of time. Some people believe uni degrees can lead to higher paid jobs and cashflow. Everyone can only speak for themselves, because they've experienced no other way other than what they've gone through thus far. One can't really say that one path is ALWAYS better than the other, as it really depends on individual circumstances.

So I think ultimately, only you can answer your question yourself. "Do I want to go to uni?" "For what purpose am I going to uni?" "Do I want to start working straight away?" "What do I see myself achieving in 5 years time?" "What would it take to get me to where I want to be?" These are the questions you should be asking yourself.

Setting your goal and working towards it should be the top priority. Otherwise, uni or not, it'd make hardly any different to your ultimate financial situation.

 

[kathryn d]

I agree.
We have left them for the next 8 months with very little imput from us.
I don't expect anything will change.
I didn't buy my first IP until 6 years ago.

 

[recruit2]

So, let's put this in perspective.

Presume you have a youngster like Lil, who is 20 years old working for a modest income. As time goes by and their experience increases their income goes up. After ten years this person is earning (on today's income) around $80. This person purchases, say three average property in ten years (not hard to do) and has a net worth (again in today's dollars) of, say, $500k. After another ten years, this person has grown their networth to several mil as they have had much CG from existing holdings and have added several more. They are retired by age 40.

Now, this is a very slow steady plan that is achievable without being agressive. In fact many could do better than this, but for this exercise this plan will suffice.

Then, we have someone like your friend on an income of around $600k. After studying at Uni for ten years, they leave at age 30 with a huge debt. We will presume they start on $600k (unlikely to start that high, but we will give them the benefit of the doubt). They work hard and after ten years they have paid out the Hecs and have bought their first PPOR. They had to save a large deposit because they wanted an expensive home in an elite suburb with all the mod cons. They also buy top of the line European cars, because that is what is expected for someone of their standing. They feel they are 'rich' because they own an expensive car as well as a beautiful home and earn a huge amount of money. At age 40 they are tied to their job and haven't even thought of the future yet.

Sure, from this point on some will invest and grow to have a much higher net worth than the first example, but on average, they could not hope to be retired by age 40.

Lol just paying their HECS off and buying their PPoR after 10 years on 600k? Try about 10 months! 600k is some serious coin like a turbocharger that will catch up to someone on 80k who started investing 10 years earlier like a big lightning strike. PS the person on 600k may also have been working/earning a semi-decent income WHILE they were studying. I'm not sure where this idea that everyone goes to uni can't earn an income or invest in property while they are studying comes from..

 

[recruit2]

Lil' skater I was very driven from a young age like you. My approach was 3/4 full time uni, full time work in my chosen field, bought my first place and moved out at 20, paid that mortgage and all my HECS up front as I went along (no HECS debt accumulated). That 5.5 years almost killed me. But I got my degree and also caught the big property boom in 2002 while I was still a student and that has only compounded further over the years in combination with a few other strategic buy/sell moves along the way.

I knew more than the practical-only uni bashers that I worked with and I knew more than the theory-only academics that I studied with. I had the fusion of both halves of the equation happening. That is the unstoppable combo where you can walk in/out of any job because you have options. I always saw myself as "the practical/hands-on person who also decided to go to uni with the academics".

At work I progressed quickly (age 23 80k, age 28 200k) now moved onto bigger and better things in business and can pick and choose between many 200k+ jobs if I had to go "back to a job". A huge slab of equity available and ready to put into the next investments by age 30. I don't see this claimed extra 10 years its going to take me to catch up to the person who skipped uni? I'm probably already ahead. That said, the years at uni and full time work were tough and the typical builders who left school in year 10 and were already earning big money really did have a huge head start. Plus they were usually more settled in their relationships and typically married earlier and kids etc because they have had heaps of time after year 10 to get all those things happening.

I never lived at home with mummy and daddy to make my investments possible like a lot of younger investors do. My mate had this ex-girlfriend who had 4 investment properties but they were only possible while she was living with her parents rent free while working as a full time nurse. That's totally lame in my opinion. I've had the lifestyle benefits, decent cars, keep fit and love my exercise, lived overseas and enjoy my lattes. Let's talk about life balance, sanity and quality of life. Not starving yourself just to end up 60 years old owning 10 properties while your whole life sucked to get there.

There surely are a lot of mickey mouse degree holders who are too busy with their heads in the clouds to think about investing in property. I agree with Nathan too that many uni people tend to get analysis paralysis easily, on average they take less practical action and debate the pros cons of every single decision in life way too much. Some of my mates are classic examples of this and its very common. They think I'm "dumber" academically, but I'm taking action while they are whinging about the housing affordabililty crisis.

Uni is not for everyone and no it is not a requirement for successful property investing.

 

[vbplease]

This is probably getting more off topic, but anyway... One problem with earning such a big PAYG salary is paying tax. Skater's friend on $600k will be left with $355k.. ok he/she may be getting a lot of tax deductions, but those deductions are likely to be from depreciating assets anyway.

As Skater suggests, there is merit in persuing a non-uni career, and building up an asset base, largely from capital growth..

Having said that, I think it's more important to follow the path that makes you happy, rather than chasing $$

 

[recruit2]

Absolutely agree.

And yes the income tax for the 600k guy would be depressing. However he/she would be happily leasing probably a nice merc or something effectively costing them nothing. Plus negatively geared property can be purchased to run a loss on to also offset income tax. So overall it probably doesn't really hit them.

I know some pretty wealthy business owners that are constantly on the lookout for "loss making" property to always work against their highly taxed income.

 

[jaycee]

This is probably getting more off topic, but anyway... One problem with earning such a big PAYG salary is paying tax. Skater's friend on $600k will be left with $355k.. ok he/she may be getting a lot of tax deductions, but those deductions are likely to be from depreciating assets anyway.

As Skater suggests, there is merit in persuing a non-uni career, and building up an asset base, largely from capital growth..

Having said that, I think it's more important to follow the path that makes you happy, rather than chasing $$

that's what dole bludgers say too about hard working employees and business owners.. let alone the white colalr uni professionals

one person tries via uni / one treis wihotut uni - whay does it have to be a competition and a p1sstake of the other person ?

How can it be stupid to work hard to make a uni career sucesful and earn $, but good / not stupid to do the same outside of uni ? - the only difference I see is that you can point to uni students and say "Haha I didnt even have to studdy to get it na na na ner ner" Sounds very childish - btw, I was way too lazy in highschool to get into uni, so dont think I' m an offended white collar professional

 

[vbplease]

Wow Jaycee, your ability to read outside the lines astounds me.. where in my post did I say either option was "stupid" or a "p1sstake"?

I merely said there is merit in someone battling away at a young age without a uni degree, as Skater was talking about. For the record I am a white collared uni grad (currently on hiatus )

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning??