Uni education a requirement for successful investing?

[tess85]

Hubby has had the same experience to Oracle (being in IT too)... massive payrises. After just 2 years work experience he is on the top tax bracket already. He could not have done this without his IT degree.

Similarly, I work in a highly technical field where the salary goes up quite rapidly, especially after you qualify and pass the final professional exams. (won't mention the field here but it's like CA/CPA but more technical). Most people in the company that I work for are on $200k - $250k. Again, this would be impossible without a uni degree.

Like Oracle I'm not saying that a uni degree works for everyone. And I'm sure this going to uni vs. not going to uni argument has been done to death on the forums before (I seem to remember having a hand in doing the topic to death )

So, back to the OP, I reckon he should read some Jan Somers' books and maybe attend some TAFE courses (eg. Peter Kouzlios in SA runs the Property Investing courses, there might be something similar in other states).

Then again, if the OP is already doing a finance degree anyway then there are certain things in the course that could help his understanding of investing (eg. I learnt about opportunity cost etc. and that was really handy but one could've easily learnt it outside of uni). That's a bonus but I wouldn't sign up to uni especially to learn stuff like that.

 

[JamesGG]

Much as I hate to admit it, the whole tertiary education thing has gone a long way to increasing my income and thus, my capacity for investment.

However, I've done the bulk of my studies whilst working in the field, which has accelerated things substantially.

The two young guns in my office have been given a similar opportunity; both are yet to turn twenty years old, but they're earning already something around the $32k mark while studying around work. By the time that their mates graduate from full-time study, these guys will have three or four years' experience under their belt with the same qualification. Along with, of course, three or four years of earning a decent income that they're bright enough to invest in the meantime.

I understand that these sorts of positions aren't entirely commonplace, but like most things, there are ways to get the best of both worlds.

 

[Shaneelastic]

Please tell me how Uni can generate cash flow?

It costs money to do, there's a huge loss of cash flow in the first few years (unless you're doing it by distance and still work full time) and I fail to see how a degree can generate income on it's own.

Many of my friends are 25 or so and still in Uni and are still Pizza delivery boys, I mean there's no problem with that's what you want to do - But I earn a similar amount per hour and i'm 6 years younger, without a degree. Yes I do have my Agents Representatives Licence (as i'm in Real Estate) but it took me a few weeks and I didn't have to attend a single class, plus it didn't cost me $20k!

Leaving you out of it because you are not the norm 19 year old who aspires to so many things.

Look at page eight on this research paper. This tells me alot about why on average university is a very good option.

http://www.education.monash.edu.au/...pers/2009/2009-north-socialinclusionfinal.pdf

 

[dan c]

Please tell me how Uni can generate cash flow?

Because Uni graduates earn more, on average, than those that didn't go to university. They have more money coming in.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily teach you about investing, but it helps you to get one of the necessary tools (ie: money) to invest in the future.

You are ahead of your uni mates at the moment, but the odds are that they will overtake you in the coming years.

 

[Edmond Dantes]

it's like doctors: whilst everyone enjoys a healthy salary/income, they're still studying like crazy. When they graduate and start earning more years later, that's when you see them smiling

 

[HiEquity]

That and the fact that sticking to formal learning over a long period of time requires discipline and focus. Those two traits are probably worth as much as the education itself and what allows you to go further .

Yes it's certainly a subject of debate in the field. The facts being that lifetime earnings of uni graduates are on average significantly higher than non-uni graduates (this includes the impact of being out of the workforce while at uni) and that employers will use uni qualifications as a selection tool even when you don't really need the knowledge of that particular degree.

The questions then become:
- Do employers prefer uni graduates because a degree acts like a three - seven year selection tool? ie if you're good enough to tough it out at uni for that long then you are more likely to be a good employee? So you have overcome a threshold test that others haven't, regardless of how relevant your studies were to the position at hand.
- Does completing a uni degree actually make someone more likely to be a good employee regardless of what they may have actually learnt at uni? ie does it indicate they have discipline, an open mind, can work hard, pick up ideas quickly etc?
- If (for the non-professional degrees) uni is just a selection tool, then it is very inefficient for society, wasting years of someone's life and earning potential just to test if they are a good employee. And it misses a heap of people who would be good employees but for whatever reason didn't go to uni. So, is there a better way to select good employees?

Very hard to test these questions so they are hot topics in the field. The general conclusion is that professional degrees are certainly relevant from a knowledge point of view and need to be undertaken to reasonably qualify for entry to the profession at hand. However, for the non-professional degrees the answers seem to be:
- Yes
- Yes
- No

Which helps explain the status quo...

 

[jaycee]

I have always believed in doing what you think is best.

If you think you should go back to school or visit seminars that's your choice.

However, I also believe you can learn a lot from experience and observation.

I finished school last year (for the record) and whilst most of my friends are at Uni and earning $200 a week if they're lucky, i'm looking at purchasing my first property in about 6 weeks.

Many successful investors (many on this forum) have maybe completed year 10 if you're lucky. However, times have changed and many people think Uni is the way to go.

Personally, I think Uni can hinder success, especially in the first few years after school. A degree can get you into a good stable job, progressing every few years and eventually end up on 6 figures, it doesn't however, teach you about investing nor how to be financially savvy, it can land you with a huge debt and hold you back because you've now wasted 4 years to earn a similar wage to someone fresh out of high school. The only time I believe that a degree starts to shine is in your 40s - when I hope to be retired.



So can due diligence.

Please tell me how Uni can generate cash flow?

It costs money to do, there's a huge loss of cash flow in the first few years (unless you're doing it by distance and still work full time) and I fail to see how a degree can generate income on it's own.

Many of my friends are 25 or so and still in Uni and are still Pizza delivery boys, I mean there's no problem with that's what you want to do - But I earn a similar amount per hour and i'm 6 years younger, without a degree. Yes I do have my Agents Representatives Licence (as i'm in Real Estate) but it took me a few weeks and I didn't have to attend a single class, plus it didn't cost me $20k!

It can help get you a degree which can get you a job earning you $500k+ per year - thats a bucket load and a half of cash flow right there !! that's how.

Many degree holders are high income earners and that's what was reffered to.

And cahsflow certainly helps to fund invetents.

Now is that enough to make uni necessary ? slightly more in depth and separate question.

The street smarts picked up by many invetors along the way, coudl have been picked up by a uni degree holder or a on degree holder, no rel difference..

One might say some degreeholders and their knowledge of financials could help them a bit... maybe..

Compare the degree holders to the on degree holders, how many more non degree hodlers are investors %age wise ?

I dont have a degree, I dont thikn it's necessary, but I dont see it as a hinderance, as it's still up to the individual to decide if they are goign to invest or not regardelss fo wether they shunned tertiary education or not.

If you lil skater decdied to go to uni, you woudl probably stil linvest in your life wouldnt you, and with the knowlege you have and boosted earnings, would you be unsucesful ?

 

[weg]

My husband has employed many young lads as labourers and Apprentice Landscapers over the years.

His best employees have been predominantly those that complete year 12 and/or play sport at a professional level ( like Lil Skater ). We've employed enough now that this really does stands out. He rarely employs anyone out of that criteria nowadays (uses the local high school through work experience and a SANFL club to recruit).

His worst have been those that drop out of school early and have not played sport.

I know it may sound like a bit of a generalization and there would be exceptions - obviously - but I've been taking note of this observation for years, moreso now that I have a son in year 12, and I've come to the conclusion that traits like discipline and focus are tied in with intelligence and better judgement, even at the secondary school level.

I agree with you that the content of a degree is a must in most/many cases although without those traits the person may not have achieved that degree in the first place.

Btw many of these lads have gone on to do degrees, one who returned this year as a Labourer and Engineer after doing his gap year with us and working part time for the last 4 .

 

[bene313]

Ha. We've been over all this before. Uni vs no uni.

Yes salary is important. But the important thing is to do something that you enjoy. For some that will require going to uni, for some that wont.

 

[Lil Skater]

You are ahead of your uni mates at the moment, but the odds are that they will overtake you in the coming years.

Okay, I'll retreat. Perhaps Uni does give the potential to earn more money, however this is usually in the long term, this I would say is the rule rather than the exception.

Yes in 5 years time those that I went to school with will have a degree and sure we'll say that they will earn more than myself.

The question is what will they do with the money?

In 5 years time I will have bought at least 3 properties. In 5 years time they might decide to move out of home and they'll have a new car because they can, however it is unlikely they'll think about purchasing their own home or investing in other things until they're 30 and by this time I hope to be retired.

So sure, they may earn a higher income than myself because they studied hard, however even Miss Most Likely to Succeed will not reach the same point as myself in 10 year time, if ever.

Not because she's dumb or doesn't have the potential, it's because I'm not a normal barely 19 year old.

I know what I want to do and what I will do and even though the career I'm in at the moment will probably never earn me 6 figures I can make it work for me, plus I plan to work hard so I can go into business for myself, in which case the skies the limit.

 

[Lil Skater]

If you lil skater decdied to go to uni, you woudl probably stil linvest in your life wouldnt you, and with the knowlege you have and boosted earnings, would you be unsucesful ?

Must've missed this...

Yes I would still invest, however I wouldn't have been able to purchase a property this year, whereas I can now.

Also, I never said uni makes you unsuccessful, I know that generally people that go to uni "succeed" however, this is a big word and has different meanings for different people, which is why success cannot be measured a such.

 

[RumpledElf]

however it is unlikely they'll think about purchasing their own home or investing in other things until they're 30 and by this time I hope to be retired.

Stupid question, but what do you plan to do with your life when you're retired?

I quit work and buggered off to the country when I was 30 (I have a uni education) and we spend a lot of time messing around with things that are very enjoyable but don't earn much, so there's always the push to do something else that earns money - which for us is likely to be a combination of property, our existing business and the new idea I've been working on the last few months.

I'd almost consider our current state 'retired', just not self-funded since we are still eligible for an awful lot of money from Centrelink, and that is something I'd like to be completely free from within a couple of years (although considering how high some of the income cutoffs are ...).

But there's no way I'd be sitting back doing nothing and being 'retired'. It is so BORING suddenly stopping work with no hobbies. I did it when I took maternity leave with my first child back in the dark ages and OMG I got soooo BORED!!

 

[Lil Skater]

Elf, I see where you are coming from.

But in saying that I do hve hobbies that take up a lot of my time, I'd hope to have a family by then and and plenty of friends.

I know the boyfriend's parents are having a great time, they're so happy and are never bored because they find things to do and have developed new hobbies since retirement and also have a few grand children, I think life is about enjoying yourself and what you have and making the most of everything.

I don't want to *need* to go to work in 10 years, I want to do what I want to do without stress.

I know I'll get called naive for this, but I don't care. By that stage I'll probably have a young family and I want to make the most of the time I'll have with them because life's short.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

Mike,

I didn't have a degree when we started investing however I have since completed an MBA. My earnings have increased, resulting in more serviceability for our investments.

You do not need a degree to be an investor. You do not necessarily need a degree to make good money. However if you have the opportunity to get a degree which you know will increase your income then the extra money can only help to grow your portfolio.

If on the other hand you believe you need a degree to be a good investor; as in the direct application of the knowledge gained from a degree then in my opinion you are barking up the wrong tree.

In fact if I listened to what they teach in an MBA there would be no way I would invest in direct property ownership. Because according to the books there is only one way to make money in investing and that is through the stock market.

Regards

Andrew

 

[alexlee]

Okay, I'll retreat. Perhaps Uni does give the potential to earn more money, however this is usually in the long term, this I would say is the rule rather than the exception.

And people who succeed financially without uni are also exceptions. On average, people with uni make more. I wouldn't say it's long term. Good uni grads start on 50k+ after 3 years uni. 100k another 5 years after that isn't unusual especially if you train in specific skills.

Yes in 5 years time those that I went to school with will have a degree and sure we'll say that they will earn more than myself.

The question is what will they do with the money?

In 5 years time I will have bought at least 3 properties. In 5 years time they might decide to move out of home and they'll have a new car because they can, however it is unlikely they'll think about purchasing their own home or investing in other things until they're 30 and by this time I hope to be retired.

Lack of uni didn't 'teach' you to buy properties. Neither does uni. You can't compare 'uni grad with crap money habits' and 'no uni with good money habits', because uni or not doesn't affect this.

So sure, they may earn a higher income than myself because they studied hard, however even Miss Most Likely to Succeed will not reach the same point as myself in 10 year time, if ever.

But what if the person has the same attitudes towards money and investing as you, but makes more in salary? Who will succeed faster? Everything else being equal, the person on the higher salary will likely succeed faster.

I know what I want to do and what I will do and even though the career I'm in at the moment will probably never earn me 6 figures I can make it work for me, plus I plan to work hard so I can go into business for myself, in which case the skies the limit.

Which is fair enough. But you assume people who go to uni don't invest. A lot of high salary earners don't, but then, a lot of lower income earners don't either. Ask yourself: would you be able to invest faster if you made twice as much? 3 times as much? Uni grads can also go into business for themselves.

Cashflow, deposit and serviceability are genuine issues many investors face, especially at the start. With a higher salary early on, and the potential to earn more over their working life (even if that's 20-40), one can certainly argue uni helps investing. But the wildcard is the attitude and money habits, which aren't taught in schools.

 

[InveSTAR]

Higher education can develop your mind and the skills are directly transferable to other areas of your life such as property investing.

while many millionaires are high school drop outs it does not mean you need to drop out of high school to be a millionaire. There are more millionaire doctors and solicitors in society than high school drop outs.

 

[Lil Skater]

I wouldn't say it's long term. Good uni grads start on 50k+ after 3 years uni. 100k another 5 years after that isn't unusual especially if you train in specific skills.

Everything else being equal, the person on the higher salary will likely succeed faster.

But you assume people who go to uni don't invest.

Uni grads can also go into business for themselves.

Okay, so fresh out of uni they're earning $50k and at the same age without it i've made it to $60k, but because I haven't been to uni I have already started investing and making money increasing my yearly income to $75k whilst they're still trying to get finance. I do however agree that with specific skills such as IT or another highly skilled industry like a surgeon the money increases much more rapidly.

But the original question which led to my reply was in regards to my friends specifically, many of which are doing pre school teaching as their degree or something similar. Which doesn't have an rapidly increasing wage.

No, they are likely to have more money quicker - As I said people have different perceptions of success. For some it's a brand new car each year and a plasma, for others it is working hard and saving to retire early. They may have more money than I, but what they do with it is a different matter.

Again my answer was directed at those I went to school with, if they do decide to invest it won't be until they're hitting 30 or so. Remember I am from a very low socio-economic region.

Who ever said I can't go into business myself? There are many people that go into business for themselves with out a degree and make mega $$

There's no doubt that increased income will assist in investing, however there is nothing to say uni is associated with investing directly. There are plenty of jobs that you can earn a substantial about of money in that don't involve a certificate, admittedly not as many as those that require further education.

I think uni versus no uni doesn't make a lot of difference, it's what you do with the degree (if you even use it) and the money that may come out of it.

 

[alexlee]

I think uni versus no uni doesn't make a lot of difference, it's what you do with the degree (if you even use it) and the money that may come out of it.

If you don't go to uni, you don't have a choice about what you do with a degree, since you don't have one. No, uni doesn't automatically mean anything, but there are a lot of jobs, often high paying ones, that require skills / qualifications that you cannot get unless you have a degree. The degree, in those cases, is a necessary first step.

The question is whether having a uni degree helps you as an investor. Not directly. But to the extent that it means your income is higher, yes, it helps you to invest earlier and faster.

I think your opinions are coloured by how your friends use their degrees. With your attitude and money habits, you'll be more successful than most people anyway, degree or no degree. But don't discount a degree just because your friends haven't made it work for them. A high salary supports investing, and often high salaries require degrees.

 

[Peter Lau]

Just get all the Jan Somers books. Nothing else. That is more than enough to get started. Read and digest. Then take action. Put all the other books you ordered on the back burner until you are more advanced, and own a few properties.

 

[Jim Goose]

And people who succeed financially without uni are also exceptions. On average, people with uni make more. I wouldn't say it's long term. Good uni grads start on 50k+ after 3 years uni. 100k another 5 years after that isn't unusual especially if you train in specific skills.

Spot on Alex. That explains my siutation exaclty, my salary has more than doubled from 45k to 95k in the space of 5 years (I.T.) and it should get over 100 in the next few months.

LilSkater, your posts are so typical of someone who didn't go to uni (I have firends with the same attitude) and it is basically an inferiority complex.

As you point out it's what you do with the money you earn that counts, not how you get it, so get over the whole "Uni is a waste of time" thing.
Your way of doing it is fine for you and others going off to study for a few years first is also ok.
Each to their own..

fwiw, There are people out there with lots of money and no degree, but plenty more with both.