"War Stories" in QLD

[triple_j]

Hi everyone,

I am very negatively geared at the moment and am in the hunt for the next IP that will put money into my pocket each week. After some research, it seems that regional QLD is the best bet.

I went up to QLD and found a "good" IP with nice corner block. After pest inspection, a nest was found in the tree stump on the block. The worst thing was that the agent knew about it but said nothing My lesson is to always ask them and watch them lie through their teeth. ;p Although there was no "visible" termite attack on the house, the place was very damp, so I walked out on the deal, after the seller refused to renegotiate the price.

Then I've heard how people made money by turning these nasties into opportunities. Could I have done better by trying to make more out of this situation? I'd like to hear your war stories in similar situations and how you've dealt with them.

With such heated markets everywhere, we all need to think outside the block.

Thanks!
Jess.

 

[see_change]

Hard to comment about the individual property , but termites arn't uncommon in Q'land ( or sydney ) and if everything else was ok I would have probably gone ahead.

We have bought one place with a nest in a fence , and another with evidence of old termite damage in batterns below the ant caps.

Although people like to say you should get people to renegotiate if you find problems , my personal experience is that ( in particular in the current market ) I havn't had much success. The last time I suggested this , the vendors reply was, fine, just send me a letter and we'll let you out of the contract. After letting of steam , I decided to go ahead......

Where we live in sydney , I have been told by several people that if a pest inspector can't find some evidence of termites ( past or present) they havn't looked hard enough.

Deals are getting harder to find but they are still there. I had a chat to a couple of agents in Rocky yesterday , and they report a steady increase in demand over the last months, but it hasn't gone through the roof yet.

There are places that havn't started moving yet , but they're are in smaller centres.

see change

 

[asy]

Hiya Jess,

I have to totally agree with Seech here,

If you find a property in QLD without termites I would worry... But then I don't think there is one.

if the pesty has done his job correctly, and there aren't any termites in the house, I wouldn't worry. But it's your call.

In this market I wouldn't suggest the vendor negotiate either (sorry!).

One thing about the agent, they are (unfortunately for the buyer) duty bound not to say anything which may jeopardise getting the highest price for the seller. They cannot, however, lie when asked a direct question. I would suggest that you always ask them whether they know of any termites on or around the property, or whether they know of any termite evidence on or around the property.

One last question, you said:

My lesson is to always ask them and watch them lie through their teeth

What evidence do you have that the agent lied to you, or are you assuming that if you ask the agent a question they will lie? I understand you said that the agent knew and said nothing, but did you ask him and he denied it? or did he not tell you? Just as he probably wouldn't have told you that the bathroom ceiling had mould on it. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the way it goes. Always remember that whilst the agent is nice and helpful, they are being paid by the vendor.

asy

 

[brains]

If non-disclosure is the equivalent of lying anywhere else, why is it different for real esate agents.

To cover up defects (or termites) in a property to gain the highest sale price for the vendor is reprehensible and the equivalent of a used car salesman not mentioning defects in a bomb to gain the highest sale price. When the bguyer takes the bomb back to him, he can say 'but you didnt ask'

Its amazing how real estate agents have their own skewed version of ethics. (business or otherwise)

 

[MarkB]

Two words:

Caveat Emptor

(let the buyer beware)

To the best of my knowledge the product labelling and disclosure requirements that apply to some other purchases, do not apply to property (certainly not to the same extent).

Therefore it remains the buyers responsibility to verify what exactly it is that they are buying and also to ascertain the accuracy (or otherwise) of any statements made by the REA (or the vendor).

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/o...AAD4A256B490013D76F?OpenDocument&L1=Consumers

Ethics are so often based upon a value judgement.

Just because something may be, in your mind, immoral, does not make it illegal.

The difference might not matter much to you or I, but it does to the law.

MB

 

[brains]

MB

I was talking from an ethical point of view, not legal. I thought that was pretty obvious from my post.

Ethics may be based on individual value judgement but theres a level of ethics that the whole of society would consider 'normal' and adhere to. Otherwise we would have everyone using peoples different interpretaion of ethics as an excuse for just about anything. What im saying is that your statement is a cop out and an attempt at justifying unethical behaviour.

 

[MarkB]

My statement was a cop out no more than yours was an unjustified attack on REA.

What I said is a fact of life.

Deal with it.

MB

 

[Simon]

In NSW Agents have a Duty of Care. They are required to advise a purchaser of anything negative they know about a property.

I don't know how this could be enforced - but some of the case studies we did at TAFE showed agents being successfully sued for advising a country motel was a potential gold mine when they new of a new rival motel being planned nearby.

Cheers,

 

[brains]

An 'unjustified attack on REA' ?? You have gotta be joking, right??

There are so many war stories about REA on this forum and just about everywhere else, including a few personel experiences of my own. If it wasnt so serious it would be funny.

The topic of lack of ethics in the real estate industry have been done to death on this forum and they constantly pop up from new posters.

Tell me, MB, how many properties have you personally bought and sold and what is the extent of your dealings with real esate agents and in business (i mean your own bsuiness)?

 

[MarkB]

Getting personal?

Last time I looked I didn't answer to you.

I know enough about REA and about my rights as a consumer to stand by the comments I made.

I find the irony of this debate incredible - especially given the quote you tack on at the end of your posts: "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of the truth".

Yes it is a problem - but short of legislating the REA industry to within an inch of its life, you will always be relying on the integrity of the people you deal with.

As your quote suggests - trust no-one.

You can sit here all day and argue about ethics.

Who is right. Who is wrong. Who did this. Who did that.

In the end it means nothing, except for that which the law provides.

Try to enforce ethics in a court of law??

MB

 

[brains]

Sorry MB, you just dont get it. Imagine a society in which ethics have no currency and people are only protected by the law. Not worth thinking about.

Im speaking from first hand experience - ive had my own business for a long time and bought and sold many properties - and i know that those who would rely on what the law says in place of being ethical just dont last, they might make a good short gain but their dishonest ensure it cant be sustained.

MB, youre great at the cold figures of economics and the legal side of things (the rest of your comment is theory only) and maybe thats the area you should stick to.

Anyway, im off for a surf, beautiful day up here, catch you in a couple of hours.

 

[MarkB]

Brains

No, I do get it.

But I am wondering about you.

As unfortunate as it is to acknowledge it, humans, throughout history, have cheated and swindled each other in an attempt to serve their own self interest.

Much of the trust and ethics to which you refer are long gone (if indeed they ever existed).

Even things which on the face of it appear trustworthy and reliable can prove to be otherwise.

An example:

Do you accept Bank Cheques as being secure?

(If you do, you are poorly advised)

Until maybe 5-10 years ago most people would accept Bank Cheques - even from complete strangers - as being secure and "as good as cash".

Bank Cheques are only marginally more trustworthy than a personal cheque.

Bank Cheques can bounce (I have done it).

(Naturally if a Bank Officer gives you a BC, you should be able to trust it - but never - ever take one from a stranger).



Theory has little to do with it.

What I am talking about is reality.



In business you cannot afford to blindly trust anyone.

And in my experience, you cannot even those you work with.

It is NAB policy that all deposits are counted with at least 2 people present (the customer and a teller / or two bank staff).

It isn't that NAB doesn't trust its staff or believe that it's staff are unethical - it just cannot afford to take chances.


Anymore than consumers can when buying real estate.


I worked with 2 people at the NAB who were dismissed for theft.


Throughout my 2 and a bit years at the Bank, on a daily basis I had (on average) $500+ k in cash in my control.


Only once was my integrity and ethics called into question - when a fellow officer and I were accused of stealing $2,000 from the deposit of a customer.

Had it not been for the fact that we observed proper procedure and counted his deposit with both of us present, then either one of us could have been in serious trouble.

Do you think the customer trusted us?

I can tell you that the bank didn't, which is why 2 of us had to be present.

(The customer later found the $2,000 in his office).


It is good to know who you can trust (who is "ethical") - and I hope the list is a long one.


But it is just as vital to know who you cannot trust.


MB

 

[willair]

Some people in the r/e game call the process in Queensland..
Acceptable Deception,if it works on the gold coast it will work anywhere anywhere in australia.
good luck
willair.

 

[XBenX]

Its good to see spirited debate still occuring, whilst these debates can get pretty fierce Im sure that if they were in person, they would just be a discussion between friends.

</end useless rant>

JJJ - I agree ppl do make money out of these opportunities, risk = return.

 

[MarkB]

Originally posted by XBenX
Its good to see spirited debate still occuring, whilst these debates can get pretty fierce Im sure that if they were in person, they would just be a discussion between friends.

I'd like to think so too.

MB

 

[abcdiamond]

Originally posted by XBenX
Its good to see spirited debate still occuring, whilst these debates can get pretty fierce Im sure that if they were in person, they would just be a discussion between friends.

It is also easier to explain exactly what you mean face to face, without misunderstandings.

 

[triple_j]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the debate and the replies. Buyers beware indeed.

Asy, See_change - thanks for the advice. Some points to clarify, I noticed the tree stump on my own inspection and asked the agent whether he knows of existing termites, he avoided the question and replied "I'm not a termite expert". When I got the pest report and asked to renegotiate, he said fat chance as a couple of others have tried before me. Therefore I concluded that other people approached him on the same subject. As I am fairly new to the QLD market, I thought a termite nest coupled with damp means termite in the house sooner or later and I didn't want to spend couple of thousand cleaning the place up and protecting the property against future attacks. It's actually the first property I inspected that has termite in it so inexperience also kicked in. But I'm always learning

Since my next property is going to be in QLD and according to many, the chances of termites are high, what is a good guideline as to whether to buy or not? If the termite is in the house already, would you buy?

Thanks,
Jess.

 

[asy]

Hiya Jess...

I guess it's a matter of take each case as you find it, and get a good pest inspector.

And for the record, I would have taken you out and showed you the termites, if I was selling the property. Because I believe that this is the honest way, AND I believe that it's best for the vendor as this way the purchaser doesn't come back and try to renegotiate after the inspection.

asy

 

[Les]

G'day Triple J,

Well done on your "due diligence" (which is finding out those "hidden" things that are not necessarily disclosed - for whatever reason!!!!)

It does sound (from one of your statements) that the RE agent concerned DID know of the problem - and I AM assuming here:-

When I got the pest report and asked to renegotiate, he said fat chance as a couple of others have tried before me.

Here, I'm assuming that the two comments ("when I got the pest report and tried to negotiate" and "fat chance as a couple of others have tried before me") are connected - they MIGHT NOT BE... It could simply be that the vendor was NOT willing to negotiate the price under ANY circumstance. And, I am assuming that you would have mentioned that the negotiations were "following on" from the pest inspection report.

In the end, YOU know the circumstances, and YOU know if you would want to deal with this particular agent in future. And this is all part of Due Diligence. So, well done. You've made your decision based on your findings.

I wish you luck with the next one.

Regards,

 

[triple_j]

Thanks Les and Asy