We have a new villian in the property market - the mortgage brokers!

These twisted fiends convince innocent Australians to take out massive loans they cannot afford against high-risk real estate 'investments', then laugh all the way from the bank due to their exorbitant and unreasonable trailing commissions.....

Am I getting the style right?

As the property market continues to slump in eastern Australia, 20 families a day are being evicted from their homes - many victims of unprofessional and unregulated mortgage brokers. Ben Hills reports on one.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/safe-as-houses/2006/10/13/1160246326065.html


A clever media beat-up, real estate agents might be off the hook for awhile as other media picks up on these denizens of the deep, mortgage brokers.

It's interesting that when an individual spells 'con artist' using different letters people suddenly think they are legitimate :rolleyes:

Let's hope the poor conduct of a very few individuals doesn't besmirch the reputations of the many good mortgage brokers, and the exceptionals ones out there.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Well, it is Benny Hill reporting.

Add this to the other thread where the lenders are expecting people to get the accountant and/or solicitor to sign to say they have given advice and you get the whole picture.

People are not responsible for their own downfall. In some countries it's because of pixies, in this country it's the mortgage brokers, lenders, wife, children, dog, cat, goldfish.....

Maybe it is the goldfish. People fishing for free money from the banks as if it's a goldrush.

"Pack your pick and shovel, I'm gunna' dig me'self a hole, and bury me'self financially"

Regards

Andrew
 
would that be the same class of fiend that came out to my place on thursday - sat for an hour in the open double garage as junior rode around on her bicycle - to make sure i wasn't overcommiting, giving me a clear path and conditions i needed to do for the purchase i'm looking at and went thru my 5 year plan with me to ensure i knew what i was doing and that i was on track.

all at no charge (until he writes up the next loan).
 
I agree that there are some unscrupulous mortgage brokers out there. I have noticed in the past couple of months a huge increase in the amount of telemarketing flogging consolidation loans & mortgage reduction schemes.

In the whole, though, there are many more that are reputable.
 
Well, it is Benny Hill reporting.

Add this to the other thread where the lenders are expecting people to get the accountant and/or solicitor to sign to say they have given advice and you get the whole picture.

People are not responsible for their own downfall. In some countries it's because of pixies, in this country it's the mortgage brokers, lenders, wife, children, dog, cat, goldfish.....

Maybe it is the goldfish. People fishing for free money from the banks as if it's a goldrush.

"Pack your pick and shovel, I'm gunna' dig me'self a hole, and bury me'self financially"

Regards

Andrew

I agree totally! People are just not taking responsibility for their own actions, the amount of victim mentalities in this society is astounding!

It's so much easier to blame others than to believe that you are responsible for EVERYTHING you bring and attract to your life!

I have also lost money due to trusting the wrong people, the thing I learned is that I need to be more educated! Focus on the work I not them!!!!
 
These twisted fiends convince innocent Australians to take out massive loans they cannot afford against high-risk real estate 'investments', then laugh all the way from the bank due to their exorbitant and unreasonable trailing commissions.....

Am I getting the style right?

Almost! But you'd never make a tabloid journo as the sentence is too long ;)

Try

Unlicensed shonks are costing battling families their homes in the rush to get a quick commission for loans they didn't need. Armies of dodgy 'loan consolidation' and 'home equity' brokers are prowling the suburbs in search for their next victim.

With promises of lower payments or retirement investment riches, they get people to unnecessarily switch loans, extracting juicy commissions for years to come. Other times they suck equity out of owners' homes, frittering it on risky investment schemes and high fees.

Still too wordy. Ah well!

Peter
 
I'm sure there are some shockers out there, but you need them. How on Earth am I supposed to sift through dozens (or maybe hundreds, I don't know) of loans out there. I tell the mortgage broker what I want, and then he finds it for me. I've got no idea how much he gets paid for it, and I don't really care.

At the end of the day, find a broker/bank/manager or just someone you can trust, and stick with them. And remember, the brokers out there are in fact the middle man, it's the banks who actually lend the money. Perhaps we should be ripping into them instead.
 
With promises of lower payments or retirement investment riches, they get people to unnecessarily switch loans, extracting juicy commissions for years to come. Other times they suck equity out of owners' homes, frittering it on risky investment schemes and high fees.

or is it that the "battlers" get themselves in a pickle with bad debt, consolidate onto the mortgage to reduce overall loan repayments (and hence take 30 years to pay off the big screen tv), and then head out again the following week with their extra freed-up credit to rack it all up again.

is that the mortgage brokers fault?
 
that's what they would have you believe.

reality is there are a lot of people in our country that live beyond their means and this is exactly what happens. Put the credit card on the mortgage, a year later they are back in credit card trouble again, oh well lets put it on the mortgage again.
 
or is it that the "battlers" get themselves in a pickle with bad debt, consolidate onto the mortgage to reduce overall loan repayments (and hence take 30 years to pay off the big screen tv), and then head out again the following week with their extra freed-up credit to rack it all up again.

is that the mortgage brokers fault?

Credit can be likened to electricity: a powerful servant if used well, but a ruthless master if wrongly used.

People do not (and should not) blame the power company if they get electrocuted. Similarly they should not blame the credit provider or broker if they run into financial difficulties.

I would add one rider; that the broker/bank is ethical and does not misprepresent their product. The combination of a greedy broker and a greedy customer is a recipe for the exploitation of the latter by the former*.

And some of the marketing (eg radio ads) one hears from the brokers whose clientele is mainly unsophisticated people in financial difficulty does cause one to wonder about their business model.

Peter

(*) When a fool with money meets a crook with experience, the crook gets the money while the fool gets the experience.
 
Taking responsibility for your actions in life is probably the greatest step you can take towards taking control of your life and getting what you want out of life. Victims are usually sad and unhappy people because “someone did it to them”. The world is full of victims who will take the easy road and blame others for bad financial decisions because it was easier to watch TV or kick the foot ball or just VEG OUT, instead of educating themselves about their own financial matters.

At the time we are blaming others for our own poor financial decisions, it may be a useful exersise to ask ourselves How many hours of TV would I have had to sacrificed to prevent loosing that $100,000. You may find that it would have only been about 20 hrs. Do the maths that is $5,000/hr. That must have been some TV show you were watching.
 
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The market moves the heroes become villians.

"Which bank" started the whole "equity mate" advertising assault. The advertising was aimed squarely at encouraging people to re-mortgage to get the life they want now with no thought of their future.

You now have lifetime loans, great idea for some, for others it's just squandering away what little security they have.

What is it that determines that the broker is acting unscrupulously anyway. Is it the fact that the person gets into strife and therefore someone else is at fault.

At the end of the day they get the loan based on the information they supply, if the application is fradulent then they ought to be charged not held up as victims.

Regards

Andrew
 
Victim mentality

I gotta take issue with some of the comments in this thread about people with a "victum mentatility"

When a battler who is not finanicaly informed and educated makes good they are a success story that "anyone can emulate", (which; according the personal development guru's, infers that both poverty and weath are simply choices people make) when a batter who is not finanicaly informed and educated and goes under they "deserve what they get," ie a "fool and their money soon part", they automatically "blame the gold fish;" "any one but themselves" etc.

Ordinarly people who are not trained to look after themselves financially but are only trained to be cannon fodder for industry, are forced to take risks in order to try and provide for their own old age, to try and "get ahead" or to otherwise try achieve financial security, etc, they are faced with a mountain of information, facts and opinions from people who in some cases they have no option but to trust ( cos you have to trust or believe someone in the end dont you, yea I know, the ciche trust but verify etc), to make decisions to invest in something. They rely on the advice to experts to this.

Not everyone has the benefits of hindsight, particuarly that of others. Our state goverments keeps offering warnings against rip off merchants and they are always telling people to "do their homework". (remember westpoint)

Huge advice is'nt it? They seem to be very reluctant to tell people how to do their homework, what to look for, where to go on the net to do it, how to check people out etc. They certainly dont recommend people to forums such as this. Even if they did; it takes dozens of hours to read through all the posts even on one forum such as this to get the gold from each post.

We are told to get advice from experts not from our local mechanic or hairdresser etc and when ordinarly people do take advice from experts and they later find they have been used by someone for their own gravy train, others jump on them and engage in blaming the victim for going down the tube.

A question to people who blame the victim.

How is someone who is just an ordinarly industrial worker to sift through all the websites of service providers to learn, sift thorugh several discussion forums, attend several boot camps, (to check one gainst the others after all we must do our homework must'nt we), read half a dozen books to learn enough to risk a life time of savings which might not be much, by venturing into some form of investment and then not have you jump on them if they still go down the tube?

Here is another question for you.

Would you blame the victim if someone done all the homework you would have them do and then failed to make money by not investing in the perth residential property market simply because they thought the residental makert in perth would not go much higher than it is today (15 October 06) and in fact, for example, a 450k house in 5 years turned out to be worth 950k in 5 years time, would you then say it their own fault that failed to make money???

How accurate do you think this statement is?

People who blame the victim do not blame the victim when they are the victim.

thanks - eddie
 
I agree, we can't always blame the individual if the adviser is not being straight with them. How can you tell between the honest and dishonest advisers? How can you tell if your mechanic is fixing things that aren't broken?

To take Spiderman's analogy, it's like the electrician told you it would be fine to put your finger in the powerpoint. You don't know about electricity, you believe him. You burn your finger, and people say "Tut, tut, you should have known more about electricity first". I think many people have no desire to learn about electricity, but this doesn't mean they deserve to be lied to or burnt!

Just my 2c

- Dave99
 
I tend to disagree eddie. Sure there are exceptions... however...

First of all "a battler that makes good" without educating themselves is certainly not a hero in my books, I don't know where you get this widely held opinion from, but I would say this scenario equates to a lottery winner if you take your statement literally.
Of course there are those that start without any knowledge and education but accumulate it through practical experience.
The victims spoken about - whether they exist or not - there is definately simple steps that individuals can take to avoid being one. Buying an investment property is a BIG finincial decision, people spend a lifetime going to work for money. Any investment of this money shouldn't be taken lightly, spend $100 on books and a few weeks reading, as a minimum, is such a good place to start. Is that too much to ask someone who is about to spend 100-200-400k?
People are so keen to make an easy buck, that they often lose because they find out it is not THAT easy.
 
why shouldn't we expect them to self-educate? that's how i started, reading a few books and talking to people. nothing wrong with that path.

unfortunately many spend more time sussing out the best deal for a big screen tv than sussing out financial education.
 
In my experience there are some people who will always defer to the 'professional'. I recently sat with a young man - as the 3rd mortgage broker on the list. In essence there was trouble with servicing the IP and new personal debts. The previous three brokers had showed how a refinance would solve all his debt issues.

I simply bought a residex report on the house in question. This indicated a 20% drop in values and no equity to resolve the situation, however it did show the rent might of been a bit light on.

As I am not an accountant or financial planner I could not advise on the personal debt situation, however we discussed questions to ask their advisor and current lender and the situation was resolved without having to touch the property loan.

I think it comes down to making sure that the team of professionals you work with are ethical and have your best interests at heart. The only way anyone can know this is with their own education. Unfortunately sometimes life catches up and situations arise before the education is complete it is at this time that people are the most vulnerable. This is when those few get taken and it gives the industry a bad name.

Buzz..
 
Hi Eddie

I appreciate what your saying and where your coming from. For the average worker who works 9-5 it may appear hard to find the time to learn what you need to learn about investing. However let me ask you this. Do you think that Tiger Woods didn't have to make sacrifices to get to where he is. To us they may have seemed like sacrifices. But I would bet that to some one like Tiger Woods, what we define as sacrifices he probably would have defined as a pleasure and a passion.

I can't help but feel that if we really want to do something we will find the time to do it and what's more if we really want to do something we will probably get pretty good at it eventually. We may make mistakes along the way but our passion will pick us up and keep us moving forward. The reason I'm a big fan of blaming myself if things go wrong is because if I start blaming anyone else for the problem then I have less incentive to look for the solution and at the end of the day it is solutions and inspiration which is going to move us forward and get us closer to our goals and dreams.

It took me a while to swallow the responsibility pill and at the time it seemed bitter, but in the end I'm glad I did.

All the best with everything.:)
 
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