Where are the bargain properties?

Interesting read and responses to see what else is out there, I prefer Somersoft though ;)

sorry for the length of the post....



Where are the bargain properties?

With property price declines in all capital cities except Adelaide and Darwin, logic says the housing market must be littered with bargains. But it ain't necessarily so.

"A bargain can always become a better bargain in 12 months time," explains SQM Research's Louis Christopher. "Like the sharemarket, property is never priced too high to go higher, nor too low to go lower."

The problem with "falling property prices" is that not ALL property is falling in price and neither are all suburbs. In fact, lower-priced properties are keenly contested thanks to the first home buyer grants. That means bargains can be hard to pick.

Australian Property Monitors' chief economist Liam O'Hara says it's more likely that bargains will appear in Australia's well-to-do suburbs, where home owners have higher debt-to-income ratios because they were allowed to borrow more during the good times.

Landmark White head of residential valuations Bill Fatouros says a buyer has definitely snagged a bargain if they have paid 30 per cent less than 2007 prices.

In Surfers Paradise, an agent told me that an apartment bought for $555,000 in 2008 sold just a week ago for $359,000 -- now that's a bargain. But SQM Research says a harbourside Sydney house was on the market asking $18 million last year, but now has expectations around $12.5 million -- is it a bargain, too, or simply overpriced?

Fatouros says when property prices are on the slide, it makes it tricky for valuers to get it right. But here's some guidelines to tell whether you have a bargain:

1. What are the circumstances of the sale?
There are only a few reasons that people absolutely HAVE to sell a property - divorce, death, disease, bankruptcy and unemployment. In these circumstances, it is more likely that the seller will want to do a deal quickly rather than hold out for the best price (which is what most "unforced sellers" tend to do). Always ask the agent why the seller is selling - it can be the best indicator of whether you'll get a bargain. The next question to ask is how long it's been on the market for. Lengthy time on the market can indicate the property is priced too high to sell quickly.

2. Do your research
It sounds dull, but checking recent sales in the area is extremely important. You can buy reports from Domain Home Price Guide and see the local median price and recent sales - is this house priced above the median and offering premium value compared to other houses? Have homes in the area yet experienced any downturn in prices? If they haven't, then the economic downturn may not yet have been priced into area. Do you want to be owning the property when - and if - prices fall further? Fatouros says valuers always use sales results that have occured in the last three months, where possible.

3. Cheap does not necessarily mean value
Some agents are reporting that properties on busy roads or in poor condition are having to discount their selling prices more than better-located homes once the local property market suffers a downturn. Buying cheap isn't always a bargain if the property doesn't hold it's value. Buying a home that you can afford to live in or hold as an investment for at least 5-10 years.

4. Rental costs versus buying costs
Commonwealth Bank just released the top 20 Australian suburbs where it's cheaper to buy a property with 15% deposit than rent. Click here to see more. The NSW government has got in on the act, too, and says it is now the best time to buy because house prices are falling while rents are rising. If you can service the mortgage more cheaply than paying rent, it makes obvious sense to buy. But can you cope with maintenance, insurance, rates and any hikes in mortgage payments. too?

Where are the bargains right now? Have you seen any examples of property bargains? And will the bargains get better this year or start disappearing?

Posted by Alex Brooks
March 6, 2009 3:31 PM

LATEST COMMENTS

There are no "Bargain Properties" in Australia.

The Australian Residential Property market is still overvalued by 50 to 70% after year upon year upon year of "Double Digit" growth.

Only a MEGA MORTGAGE MUG would be fooled by Low TEASER rates at the moment or the Spruiking and Marketing Sub Prime Real Estate Agents..

Only way property is going over the next 2 years is Down... down.... down....

I for one cannot see even 1 reason why it won't apart from spruiking by the Sub Prime MEGA MORTGAGE salesmen.

Stay away....No value to be had here..move along..nothing to see here..move along.. move along.

Australia land of the MEGA MORTGAGE MUGS the absolute Dumbest consumers of Financial Products on Earth.

The MEGA MORTGAGE MUGS just TOO easy to mislead, misinform and manipulate....

You STILL Fooled?


Ha Ha.................

Posted by: We Love Ha HA at March 9, 2009 10:28 AM
if you are buying to live in, a bargain property can be anywhere. property , or anything else , is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. If you get it for less than you are willing to pay , the for you its a bargain. Buy what you can afford, enjoy it and dont stress about its nominal value.

or you can simply do nothing as the one trick pony above recommends, its always the easiest thing to do.

Posted by: yarpos at March 9, 2009 11:21 AM
Ha Ha is so focused on his own agenda he seems to have missed that this topic is not about the overall market.

Even if he is right that property is overpriced by 50-70%, then if someone manages to find a property for 80% less than similar properties around it, then surely it must constitute a bargain.

Anyway back to original topic.
A bargain to 1 person may not be a bargain to another. e.g. A huge piece of farmland which moves nowhere for 20 years and suddenly increases by 100 times because it becomes a new land release area ... might be a bargain for some people but not if you are a pensioner who is getting their living expenses from this investment.

Personally, I believe you don't FIND a bargain .. you MAKE your own bargain. Negotiate the seller down. Add conditions which allows you to renovate the place before settlement, etc

Posted by: Dan at March 9, 2009 1:03 PM
The average house price in Sydney has gone from apprx $540K in 2003 to $560K in 2009; an increase of about $20K.

However, given inflation has averaged 3% for the past 6 years, house prices should now be worth $650K if they had kept up with the rate of inflation.

The lesson here is that house prices drop by not keeping up with inflation.

Posted by: James at March 9, 2009 3:35 PM
Hey "We Love Blah Blah". I now realise you just cut and paste the same post, over and over again. And you do the same thing on the US based sites. As DB said, stick to the topic. Or get a girlfriend, or a hobby. As for the topic? Buyers should do their research, buy quality, ie near services, transport, shops etc. And make sure they can service the loan when interest rates go back up, which they will............eventually.

Posted by: Mike at March 9, 2009 5:49 PM
A bargain is if the property is priced at a level where the average rent you can receive from the property can cover the mortgage even if interest rates go up to 12%.

Whether the property has gone down from 2million to 1.5 million or 450K to 250K is irrelevant.




Posted by: debtfree at March 9, 2009 8:34 PM
Let's see....Most properties in Sydney seem to be priced at 4-5% rental yield. The average mortgage rate is 5-6%. Buying a property nowadays only makes sense if you believe in the ever rising property market in Sydney. Through time, we may come to realize that there are other ways to accumulate wealth.

Most people arrive at their conclusions by looking at the recent price history of the market. Do keep in mind 10 years is not such a long time. Not to mention, we have had full employment and falling interest rate for most of the past 10 years.

Let's hope history repeats itself this time ... Good luck to all of us....

Posted by: SydneyPropertyDream at March 9, 2009 9:35 PM
If you are looking for a HOME and pay around the current market value for quality, then you have a bargain.

If you are an INVESTOR, hindsight is the only sure way to know whether it was a bargain.

Pundits who make predictions always seem to be wage slaves like the rest of us, so they're not much better at it. Anyone who is able to tell whether the property/equity markets are at the bottom will not be contributing to this blog because they will be too busy on a buying or selling spree.


Posted by: Coolamber at March 10, 2009 4:22 AM
bargains to be had very soon in aus as the economy falls and most of you become destitute. Oh well. YOu suffer the consequences of your own rear end of the world greed....



Some might say i am un-australian. To that I would reply:


I am so australian that when I see a sheep I don't know whether to steal it or shag it.


Posted by: apples at March 10, 2009 9:32 AM
In my real estate search experience of 1.5yrs in Sydney, I havent seen many bargain properties except for one unit in Blacktown about which I read in media being sold for 8.5% yield bcoz there was no other buyer at auction.

For an owner occupier, I would call a buy a bargain where you can service the mortgage without taking much pain on your monthly spending. For an investor, its all about wealth creation so its a different outlook.

thanks


Posted by: dennis at March 10, 2009 5:33 PM
Thanks for this article - as a potential first home buyer in the Sydney market, this has been a good read and I certainly don't want to get caught up in the hype of the first home buyers grant, falling interest rates etc. I have lots of friends who are buying up for the first time right now - a lot of young people are getting on the bandwagon!

Posted by: Just Browsing at March 10, 2009 5:48 PM
Apples, You're obviously a New Zealander if you want to shag a sheep!

Posted by: Eno at March 10, 2009 6:13 PM
I am wary of 'bargains' in this environment when all asset classes (except precious metals) are generally falling. Look at all of the Listed Property Trusts. Their unit prices have fallen about 70% on average on the ASX. Now residential houses can't fall that much because I am incorrectly comparing equity value (unit equity prices i.e. assets less debt) to asset values (asset values only), but clearly, the market considers property values to be overpriced, and generally, markets are right.

For a home, a bargain is when you believe you have secured one - may not necessarily be of monetary value. Probably not a bad time to look at upgrading to that Mosman house you always wanted! For an investment, we still need yields to increase by 1-2% before I would consider it longer term bargain territory. I honestly believe it will get there, but not for a while. And given that I don't believe rents will increase significantly due to the recession, prices will have to fall 10-20% more.

If they don't (for some reason such as FHOG), then my money is going squarely into the stock market where there is better long term value and less government manipulation.

Hey, HA HA, I don't disagree with your basic thoughts, but give it a rest mate! Next you will be telling us that we shouldn't borrow anything to buy property because we really don't own it!

Posted by: DB at March 10, 2009 6:15 PM
I've not seen any bargains bar the odd unit on a train line, and prices are so ridiculous you would have to knock at least 30% off prices to get a fair deal.

Anybody succeeded in getting say 200K off a 600K house?

Posted by: Trouser at March 10, 2009 6:59 PM
debtfree: NAB offers 10 year fixed rate at 7.0%. Why would you need properties to be positively geared at 12.0%? IF you use a risk free rate of 12% as the bases to make your investment decisions, I dare say no investments would be worth buying for you. Good luck finding one.

Posted by: binh at March 10, 2009 7:11 PM
I've got "a bargain" in Nelson Bay NSW, that I can't sell; due to the local market being flooded with mortgagee in possessions and Sydneysiders off loading their holiday homes. It is competitive... people making ridiculous offers, sometimes up to $100k less than valuation -bottom feeders I call 'em.
While in Newcastle (one hour away), the reverse is true. There are no properties available to buy in the high $4's- high $5's. The bottom end is booming, thanks to the grants available. Absolutely no stock, with real estate agents beginning to perform unethically and unprofessionally to keep their jobs.
Once you step out of the major cities, the statistics do not hold up, and the first home buyers are creating a false impression that housing is improving. It is only improving on the lower end. Additionally, the statistics are not reflecting what is happening outside of capital cities. How about comments from others in regional areas?

Posted by: MM at March 10, 2009 7:15 PM
Here is a property we bought 2 months ago. We paid $160000 for this piece of land 49 Sinclair dr, carole park QLD which can be subdivided into 3 lots. Is it a bargain?

Posted by: binh at March 10, 2009 7:24 PM
If this is all about 'bargains' and where they might be found, I know of one for the discerning buyer, investor, B&B operator, retiree, or whatever the flexible mind could think of.
Outside of Alexandra in Victoria there is a 2.8 Hectare property which the owners expected to obtain $620,000, and is now listed at $480,000.
A four bedroom house, separate self contained 2 bedroom cottage suitable for B&B, Triple car port, powered double garage, shedding, dam, creek with unlimited free water rights, 5 fenced paddocks with water to each, synthetic grass floodlit tennis court and solar heated pool.
This oasis is set in a beautiful valley surrounded by large acreage farms making it an idyllic quiet spot for a family or business.
If this is not seen as a bargain, then all the other talk is a theoretical waste of time. Oh yes, the owners are needing to sell due to family health issues so that question is answered as well.

Posted by: MrPhysio at March 10, 2009 7:26 PM
So, where's John in all of this?
Maybe he has finally "got it"




Posted by: Peter at March 10, 2009 7:47 PM
Eno,
it is only australians who think it is the Kiwis who shag sheep. The rest of the world thinks its australia


It's like a hierarchy of sheep shagging that is passed down the line from the most developed nations to the backwater colonies.


Hope that helps you understand australia's rightful place in the world.

Don't believe the hype. Australia is an insignificant backwater to the rest of the world.

And yes I really am Australian.

Posted by: apples at March 10, 2009 8:14 PM
I notice no one is mentioning a suburb that has a bargain, simply because everyone either wants the bargain for themselves or else they don't want to ruin the market in their local area.

Posted by: peterc at March 10, 2009 9:01 PM
Buy buy buy: we need to get that debt up again. Mr waiting for armageddon...

Posted by: Chris at March 10, 2009 9:07 PM
MrPhysio, considering land around there is about 140K for ~6 Acres, that house would need to be brand new and of epic proportions. Of course, you would also need to consider that Alexandra is quite remote with no rail, freeway, etc.

What is the average salary there? Is 480K less than 3 times the local salary?

Posted by: Trouser at March 10, 2009 9:55 PM
Bargains are everywhere now but you have to negotiate,if you don't know how to negotiate get a buyers agent and screw them for a low comm say about .5% of the purchase price.
Ha ha as interest rates drop all the self funded retired will start buying anything they can get there hands on under $500,000-00 because they'll get 5%+ return because rental demand is strong.
Self funded retirees will be coming out in droves by June-July when the cash rate hits 2.5%.Once this occurs the banks will be offering low returns which will give them no choice but to invest in property because they won't trust fund managers or stock brokers with whatever they have left.The first home buyers grant will be extended only this time they will lift the restriction to allow them to rent the property out.
This will fuel market prices and create an even bigger shortage because banks are still not lending to developers who create supply to the market,and worse is that Unions are about to be given right of entry back again which will further discourage developers who fear the Unions willl slow there construction programmes by causing strikes reminicent of the 1970's to 1980's,they are not going to take the chance.People who think the floor is going to drop out of the property market in the sub $500k bracket are deluded,certainly in the top end of town you will see massive drops but to the average punter unfortunately the light is only going to be on for a short time before the cashed up retirees comeback chasing rental returns.
Haha you are an egg and you should get back in your egg cup mate because your just a fool who obviously does not understand the market and what drives it and who plays in it.

AB: That's a really valid point about self-funded retirees ... I've interviewed a couple of them already and they are saying they trust property more than equities right now.

Posted by: James Munro at March 10, 2009 10:31 PM
it feels to me like we have all been taken for a ride. It makes no sense to me why we are made to think that Bargains are out there. ALL prices are too much , plain and simple..We are made to think under $600k is a bargain for a nice house, in a nice suburb in major capital cities. Why.?? The way i see it we are 20% - 30% above where we should be. Bargain, go to America for a bargain. Do your research, Similar house, similar city, nearly half the price. We are still getting shafted. Thank god for the interest rate cuts. There is a god.

Posted by: cameron eaton at March 10, 2009 11:12 PM
All real estate is is a giant pyramid scheme with some good winners and desperate losers.Government should control house pricing by not allowing real estate agents and banks to con the markets and scare tactics ie youve got to buy now there is no better time blah blah.In the end we all lose out.I have been sensible and saved but even I am now punished because of greed and opportunism.Somebody has to pay for this and it wont be the real astate agents unless thru losing their job.Oz has one of the largest land masses in the world and yet is the most expensive land in the world,duh!!!!!!

Posted by: Ricky Hoggard at March 11, 2009 5:18 AM
Your correspondent of March 9 is correct, you know. Only mugs take out a mortgage at any interest rate. We saved and got smart. Paid $320K cash for our home. It's all about hard work and discarding the "I want it now" syndrome that so many of our misguided society have. Yes, I may drive a 16 year old Land Cruiser and work in a remote WA community, but we own everything we have.

Posted by: Norm at March 11, 2009 7:49 AM
I don't know why I keep hearing that "property prices are going down", and the "economic down turn" - where are these authorities getting their information from???
Seems to me (in sydney) the slide in housing prices is based on 1 suburb (Blacktown) - I have been looking for my first home for 3 years now... and every where I have been looking has increased in price, and just keeps increasing. Generally there are no bargans - all property has gone up on account of the increased 1st home grants - vendors and agents have increased their prices, thinking that 1st home owners now have more money to spend!!

Posted by: GG at March 11, 2009 9:46 AM
James is partially right, if you can negotiate a 40-50% price reduction then property is better than equities - or about the same as a bank account.

However, this would mean the floor dropping out of the property market. Most 500K properties would need to be bought for 250-300K to get a 5% rental return and avoid (most of) a 10-15% p/a capital loss.

Posted by: Trouser at March 11, 2009 9:47 AM
binh, Carol Park has got to be Brisbane's most dead-beat low-life suburb. It makes Inala look like Hamilton. Even so, @ $50-60k per block it's pretty good once you sub-divide!

Posted by: Ian at March 11, 2009 10:33 AM
Who is this clown "We Love Ha Ha" I think you need to get real or maybe your a real-estate shark preying on the less fortunate by making claims that property is still over priced by 50-70% as if people are going to continue flogging the homes for half what they paid for them, now that's economic suicide just weather this storm folks and things will start to turn around. Rent is a killer at the moment so unless you are planning on moving back home with mum and dad sit tight.

Posted by: Anthony at March 11, 2009 10:38 AM
seems most of you have little to no idea what you are talking about so why bother posting your rubbish!! Good luck though.

Posted by: Stu at March 11, 2009 3:10 PM
What I am hearing a lot here is that 'the bargain is in the eye of the beholder'. I believe this to be true. Firstly, if you are a home buyer then, from my experience a bargain could be deemed something akin to the cost of what it takes for you rent a property. In saying that, I truly believe at this point - if your aim is to create wealth in the future, then it would pay to purchase something that you can pay off quickly ie. not your dream house. This will free your finances more readily to enable you to make investments at a later date. If you are an investor, then you're circumstances could vary greatly - especially concerning income tax, which can be the difference in ascertaining a 'bargain' ie. what is the holding cost of an investment property. Whatever your own equation is, I believe a bargain to be reflected in the 'holding cost' and how that relates to future, possible capital gains. And, here in lies the rub - because there are no guarantees. We are all speculators really (some educated), and the less risk we take, usually the less profit (or loss) is to be made. One thing is guaranteed though, if you never do anything, then nothing will happen.

Posted by: Brad at March 11, 2009 7:10 PM
The market is up, the next 10 year cycle is down, overall the long term without a doubt creates wealth......paid by our grandchildren!
Just a pity that real estate is not affordable for all without the emphasis on personal gain to the extreme that we all know it.




Posted by: Peter at March 11, 2009 7:47 PM
property in some suburbs are yielding between 6-7 %. with interest rates as low as they are you can enter the property market with having a positive geared property instantly. do the maths and decide for your self if it is a bargain or not.

Posted by: Adrian at March 11, 2009 9:02 PM
Where are the Bargain Properties Lurking???
They can be anywhere, in any street, in any suburb of Australia!!!
More often than not, a purchaser will view their purchase as a bargain(they will usually brag to family & friends about it). Ask the agent, and they will tell you they achieved a great price(great for who??), and the vendor, they will say they got a fair price (but he or she always thinks they could have got more!) It all depends on who you speak to doesn't it.
We bought a 2 bed single fronted semi -detached Victorian brick house in Windsor, Melb with 2 street frontages for just under $540,000 prior to Xmas. Identical home in similar condition across the road with no rear access, fully attached and no upstairs bedroom sold in 2007 for $753,000 (hot market). Another similar home in Windsor sold 2 weeks ago for $721k (stable market). Was ours a bargain? In my eyes "you betcha!" Agents version- "fair price in this current market. " Vendors version- "we had to sell. We had no choice."
Why are Australian properties overpriced compared to the world??? Where would you rather live!
All the Expats are coming back to Australia in their droves, and the rest of the world are eying off our great country dreaming to live here one day.
I'm proud to call myself Australian. It is a privilege to live in this great country, and with increasing demand and under supply, you need to pay for that privilege.

Posted by: Dave @ Astute Buyers at March 12, 2009 12:19 AM
Its time for the buyers to stand up for their rights, after alll it is a buyers market at the moment.
In areas where realestate agents are trying to keep prices as high as a year and a half ago nobody should be making offers near the requested price, infact if you were smart you would be making offers 15% lower than advertised price as by the time you settle you will be lucky if the property is worth that much.

Posted by: Paul at March 12, 2009 10:38 AM
To MM, I found your comments interesting especially about First Home Buyers Grant and its affect. I was surprised that the Government moved so quickly on this. No doubt having a Ministry for Housing has help to quickly form a policy on this. Its affect has on the areas you spoke of, look at the listed areas where the grants have gone to eg Liverpool, Central Coast etc. this is published or you get form Government web site. I had to look at villa beginning of this year in Nelson Bay region the agent was telling me that they had offer that was over the top offer compared to the sales evidence that showed otherwise to what true value was. The trouble is that Nelson Bay region of employment basis is majority in retirement care, tourist or service industry for the township you have to travel large distance for other employment. The increases in property values areas like Nelson Bay occur when more people want that beach home or we have other high increases in values elsewhere and places like Nelson Bay become a cheaper alternative. Over the 10-year period looking at land values and doing assessments in Nelson Bay you can see large increases over short periods of time. I would think similar areas throughout like this will suffer more than most during 2009 to end 2010 or further. I think Nelson Bay is wonderful place to live however if you do not have job in the region it is no go area. You can always spend weekend or two renting to get the best of it and move on back to rat race in Sydney. FHBG is a short-term stimulus package and should not viewed as anything else at the moment.

Answering the blog and looking at what Landmark White head of residential valuations Bill Fatouros says a buyer has definitely snagged a bargain if they have paid 30 per cent less than 2007 prices. It is true especially for property in eastern suburbs, etc possibily not in western Sydney. What Bill has said asking the questions is correct. All I have to say Stay in our region and know it well before you can make the right judgement.


Posted by: Stephen at March 12, 2009 10:41 AM
What then?, must read article from the Australian Newspaper "First-Home Grant to End" David Uren and Chris Paver | March 12, 2009. Link:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25174266-601,00.html

Posted by: Louise H at March 12, 2009 4:32 PM
Hi all, I guess a "bargain" is in the eye of the beholder, What I can say is that in my opinion the suburb of Frankston represents good value for money. It's on the water, Good beaches. Surrounding suburbs are quite a bit more expensive, Good mix of properties, Good infrastructure (both gov't & private), Good schools avail, Access to good roads, Plenty of infrastructure projects in pipeline, Reasonable employment prospects, etc etc. An entry level 3 br house on around 550 sqm costs around 235-255K, A nice 3 br 2 bth with dbl garage etc on 650-700sqm for around 300K. to my way of thinking that is pretty good buying. the neighbouring suburb of Langwarrin is also quite good. Well worth a look if your in the market for a home. For the record I'm a tradesman. Not a crook in a suit (estate agent). Come and enjoy the mornington peninsular. Pablo.

Posted by: Pablo at March 12, 2009 4:59 PM
Hey Pablo....I had a plumber and electrician do some "tradesmen" work last week, they had a suit AND a vest!

The major problem confronting estate agents is the vendors unrealistic high expectations...not to mention car sales where everyone is trading the best reliable car that they ever owned!!

But of course it's salesmen who wear suits..........

Posted by: Peter at March 12, 2009 7:43 PM
Thanks for your comments Trouser.
A quarter acre block in Alexandra with a shack on it (original old building not worth keeping) sold for around $150,000 last week. Many people in the area seem to do quite well re their incomes. The property I wrote about is currently for sale, and unlike many properties this one has good potential for earning its own income. The cottage was previously used as a 4 Star B&B, and agents regard it as a Boutique property.
The land value you quote is interesting - where did you obtain the figure?
The property Sherntal in Alexandra is landscaped and set up well for various purposes be it income production from tourism, holiday retreat, extended family living etc.
The talk of bargains and where to get them is thought provoking. The property I am mentioning is not suitable for everyone, but then none could be.
Some people like to find fault with others opinions, yet others quietly take advantage.

Posted by: mrphysio at March 12, 2009 7:52 PM
Dave @ Astute Buyers,

you're just teh sort of australian that makes me chuckle and shake my head.


Newsflash: Australia is no better than at least 50 countries in the world. All have good and bad points. One of the main bad points is that many ignorant australians think australia is the centre of the world as opposed to the @rse end of the world.

Posted by: apples at March 12, 2009 10:41 PM
To; Peter, My comments about real estate agents were written in jest, For the most part. In my opinion the very great majority of real estate agents are hard working people simply trying to make a living. Just like every profession though, There are some that are concerned only for their wallets. A bit like a plumber or an electrician who wears a suit. Not the most appropriate attire for the job!!!!!!!!.. Regards Pablo.....

Posted by: Pablo at March 13, 2009 10:43 AM
Dave @ Astute Buyers. The rest of the world are NOT are eying off our great country dreaming to live here one day.

After having lived in a number of countries, I can confidently say that there's nothing in Australia that most people don't have in their own backyard or a cheap and quick flight away. eg bored in London? Fly direct to a number of Greek Isles in an hour for a hundred bucks. Too easy.
 
agreed - that is one long post

Must be....

this is what I noticed "Fly direct to a number of Greek Isles in an hour for a hundred bucks. Too easy. " Damn !!! I think the closest I can do is go to & from Rottnest for just a little less than that !!
 
Must be....

this is what I noticed "Fly direct to a number of Greek Isles in an hour for a hundred bucks. Too easy. " Damn !!! I think the closest I can do is go to & from Rottnest for just a little less than that !!
Or you could wait for the low tide and walk to Penguin Island for free. :D
 
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