Where would you invest $230,000 right now?

Hello All,
My parents are nearing retirement age. They are both 57 years old. Currently they have their own home paid off (worth 500K) and one investment property paid off (worth 230K) as well as some cash reserves.
After years of trying to persuade them to do more with their money they have finally agreed to take the plunge.
They do not wish to touch their PPOR, however they are more than willing to use the equity in their investment property which is $230,000. They wish to invest it in further property acquisitions as they are not comfortable with shares.

If this was you and you had $230,000 right now to invest in property, where would you invest it? How would you structure it and how would you finance it? etc. etc.
I would be delighted to hear your thoughts and advice.......
 
More information please?

Income/s?

Living expenses?

Investment timeframes?

Risk profile?

Other financial assets? (superannuation)

Insurances in place? (health, life, etc)

Short / Medium / Long term goals?

State of health?

etc, etc



Any one of those could change the answers to the question you have posed.


Mark
 
oops sorry!!
Income = $65,000 combined
Living expenses = approx $300 / week
Investment timeframes = 10 years
Risk profile = low - medium
other financial assets = approx $80K in cash
Superannuation = unsure??
Insurance in place = health, life etc....pretty standard
State of health = very good
 
Wealth creator,

Let them decide where to spend the money.

You've done your job in convincing them it might be a good idea.

They have to do the rest of the work - research, financing, etc.

If you do it for them you're only asking for headaches & tears.

Definitely offer them suggestions on where to research and who to talk to about finance, but don't get more involved.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Acey, Do you have children??

I would be really happy if mine showed such an interest in my investing, and happy if they spent the time with me looking at the options and researching. Besides 57 is not like old and decrepid, (it does not sound very old at all to some of us).

bye
 
I agree with Aceydecey. It will give them an interest & it needs to be exactly that, their investment. At their age they are too young to sit & twiddle their thumbs. They could live for another 30 years.
cheers
blossomoz
 
Aceyducey said:
Wealth creator,

Let them decide where to spend the money.

You've done your job in convincing them it might be a good idea.

They have to do the rest of the work - research, financing, etc.

If you do it for them you're only asking for headaches & tears.

Definitely offer them suggestions on where to research and who to talk to about finance, but don't get more involved.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Wealth Creator asked the question , What would you do if you were in their position?

Personally it split it between several managed funds with a degree of gearing.

Whether that's the right thing for your parents depends on lots of different factors. In their situation I'd be doing lots of reading and educating myself so when I start to talk to financial advisors I know whether they're Bulls...ting me or not ( which is what you've suggested :) ) .

See Change

PS this is not financial advice and is provided purely for educational purposes . Please seek professional advice before proceeding further.
 
Aceyducey said:
If you do it for them you're only asking for headaches & tears.

Sure, but if it isn't done at all (ie. if you leave it to them and they don't do it) they may still end up with "headaches and tears".

I'm all for the "rights of the individual" and that you can't live other peoples lives for them, but if they were my parents and I believed that their own fears, misgivings, (or whatever) were standing between them and a better future, would I do all in my power to help and "educate" them?

Of course I would.

Fwiw, I think that you are better to put the options on the table and then let them decide. That really is all you can do.

Better to give them too much information, than not enough. To make the process seem as easy as possible.

Wealth Creator said:
After years of trying to persuade them to do more with their money they have finally agreed to take the plunge.

After all, these dont sound like people who are likely to be enthusiastic in their research. (no offence, WC).

re: the actual question

They have the money. They have the time. What they don't have at the moment is the confidence (knowledge) to proceed.

This post is not financial advice and caveat emptor.


Mark
 
Bill.L said:
Acey, Do you have children??

I would be really happy if mine showed such an interest in my investing, and happy if they spent the time with me looking at the options and researching. Besides 57 is not like old and decrepid, (it does not sound very old at all to some of us).

Yes Bill, and I have parents too (which is what this thread is about).

SeeChange & Pitt,

I speak from my own experiences in nudging my folks (who have done quite a bit more in property once they saw me doing well - but they did have investment property before me).

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

In investing if you begin making the investment decisions for others you:

a) Leave yourself open to legal issues
b) Leave yourself open to relationship issues

So as I stated in my last post:

Definitely offer them suggestions on where to research and who to talk to about finance, but let them decide where to spend the money.

And at the end of the day if they don't make the decisions you would have - that's none of your business!

I'm generally a "teach them to fish, don't give them the fish" kind of guy.

People value and respect it much more if they succeed on their own merits.


As to what/where I'd suggest they research, first I'd ask them what their goals out of investing were.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Hi all,

I took it that wealthcreator was acquiescing to the parents wishes,

Especially where stated "They wish to invest it in further property acquisitions as they are not comfortable with shares."

To me that is someone trying to help, not push in a certain direction.

If it has taken years to convince the parents "to do more with their money", then they are not being forced into it, they are independant thinkers that are more likely to take their time and make up their own minds. I don't think they would just jump into a Henry Kaye type of IP just because wealthcreator suggests it. Of course I could be wrong.

bye
 
Sc it sounds like you may have had a bad experience with this - could be wrong. I agree that MAKING deciscions must be left to people when its their own money. The best approach is education. Like most of the $ and re books out there (kiyosaki/somers/anybody) I think we should start with motivation(its a really good idea), move to a blend of inspiration(this is what I have done) and information (here are the figures ) and caution (here is what to look out for)

I had this experience with my in laws - they started saying "tell us what to buy" and even "sell us one of yours" but I refused and bought them books, helped them look at abs websites, showed them how to buy an rp data suburb report and how to pick solicitors, pm's etc and CALCULATE CASHFLOWS they ended up finally getting the bug, did great dd and bought a bargain (if I had the money I would have bought it)

If this outcome is possible its a great blessing to help someone into their first ip, but its a hand hold not a shove.

If anyone is not going to think about the decision themselves, and at least be prepared to engage with you and ask questions, in the end take responsibility, they are better off with fixed interest!
 
Thank-you all very much for your input.
With regards to educating my parents, my sister and I have certainly done this and with their slow change of mindset it appears that we have been successful.
My parents would like to use the $230,000 to fund another two investment properties. If that is what they are comfortable with then I support them 100% because I know they are low risk people and if that is all they are willing to do for the moment I believe it's a hell of a lot better than doing nothing at all. I am certainly not telling them what to do, it is true that the decision must be theirs however if I can help in any way then why not!!
The reason I asked most of you for what you would do in their situation was to get a feel of where most people stood at the moment with regards to real estate, what is the current mindset of most people and what sort of things they are investing in at the moment.
Please keep the replies coming as they are very valuable to a novice like myself.......
 
Wealthcreator,

Are they hands on, active involvement type of people, who would look to reno/develop or are they looking for passive buy and forget??

bye
 
Term deposits @ 3%pa

Just kidding.

Investing in property is one option. However a market undergoing a deflation in prices and possibility of rising interest rates might disturb their SANF.

For a different view you might consider sending them to a financial planner. There is the potential of them dropping a significant amount into super, then withdrawing it as a pension in retirement- possibly mostly tax free. The right asset structure (eg balanced) will provide them with ongoing growth.

Perhaps one of the other forumites who's a planner could elaborate on my brief description of a common strategy?
 
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Hi Wealth Creator, I understand where you are coming from. Several years ago my Mother-in-law sold her family home as it was becoming too much upkeep for her living alone. Her original home was in Sydney Inner West on a very large block & she got quite a nice price for it. She then spent half of the money on a villa & had a sizable amount left over to invest.

She knew that we had some property & asked what we would do. We suggested that since she needed income not growth that if she wanted to buy some CF+ homes she would get a nice income from it. Worked out that she could purchase outright about 4 small homes with a yeild of 10-12%. She was way too risk adverse to even contemplate a loan. We said that by doing this she would preserve her capital, while giving her a much better income than the pension. We gave her examples of what we had bought & the returns we were getting. We offered to help as much as possible. This was before the large increases in regional areas, but after a lot of growth in Sydney, so she would have gotten both income & capital growth.

She then spoke to my Sister-in-law who is very anti-property. She is a very dynamic type person & MIL trusts her impicitly with everything. While I don't know exactly what she did with the funds (really not my business but I think they chose a bank account of some description), I do know that she was told that what we suggested was extremely high risk.

Now I know SIL has MIL's best interests at heart, but in the long run MIL is much worse off for taking SIL's advice. BUT, MIL doesn't realise she is worse off & is happy with her choice and there is no tension in the family.

I think what I am trying to say is that you can help out, guide them, give them all the information etc, but at the end of the day it has to be their choice of what they do with their funds, whether they want to invest or just spend everything on a huge holiday and then rely on the pension. If they choose something that you don't believe is of benefit to them, remember it is THEIR choice.
 
Dear Wealth Creator,

1. With 2 fully paid-up properties, I do consider your parents to be some sort of successful property investors themselves to a certain extent, though they could easily have many more properties now, had they are not been as "conservative" as they have been before or now.

2. Please also bear in mind that our own life priorities changes with our own age and with the present stage of our family life cycle as well as the stage of our own wealth creation process which we are presently in.

3. When we are young or/and new to the wealth creation process, we tend to take more risks and want to quickly expend our asset portfolio as fast as we can. I remember reading a book whereby the author will classify the assets into 2 types: Growth Asset Portfolio and Security Asset Portfolio. The riskier Growth Assets must have high capital growth averaging 20%p.a or higher whereas the Security Assets will average 3%-5% (1%-2%pa. above inflation rate) but with its main emphasis on asset protection and capital/wealth preservation.

4. Thus, when we are young or/and newly into the wealth creation process, we will invest most of our available funds into acquiring the Growth Assets. As our Growth Assets expand and grow into a substantial portfolio size, it is recommended that we begin to pay down part of the outstanding loans still prevailing for the Growth Assets Portfolio maintenance, and transfer the newly " non-encumbered" assets into the Security Assets Portfolio. As time goes by and when we become more successful, and with increasingly more of our Growth Assets loans are being paid down, "dis-encumbered" and transferred into the Security Asset Portfolio.

5. Finally, when we have become multi-millionaires or billionaires and with most of the assets fully paid up, free and held under the Security Asset Portfolio, the emphasis now focus on wealth preservation and retention to generate continuous life-long passive income to fund our own retirement lifestyles, rather than to create new wealth to add into our portfolio, as in the past. We then become financially free and live the life we have always want to live and now opt to take minimal risks and avoid all investments that might put all security assets or/and our newly found wealth, at risk. How we spend our remaining limited earthly life-time and our use of (leisure) time now becomes paramount and much more precious than actual monies spent, so as to be "Care-FREE" happy with ourselves and our own lives.

6. Thus, although in monetary terms, your parents may not be seen as very susccessful in their lives, yet with no more worries and all their assets fully paid up, your parents can now start to enjoy the blessed bliss and be finally free, not to have any more new worries as to how to get more monies to pay for their next meals or/and fund their retirement lifestyles.

7. In the true sense, they are blissfully "wealthy" and carefree to freely enjoy their lives at their age now, though they may not be the usual financial multi-millionairies.

8. Roger Hamilton, the up and coming Asian Wealth Creator Guru who authors the book, "Wink and Grow Rich" ( as opposed to Napolean Hill's book, "Think and Grow Rich") , have this to say, "True Wealth is what we are left behind after we have lost all our monies (after our entire lifetime of wealth acquistion/creation!".

9. Thus, while I can appreciate where you are presently coming from i.e to try to use your parents' house equity to help them create more wealth through property investing, know at the same time that perhaps your parents are starting to enjoy the true wealth and inner peace with/in themselves that Roger Hamilton is talking about. Consequentlky they may prefer not to take any more new risks to acquire more new Growth Assets to expand their property protfolio anymore but to be able to sit back, be totally care-FREE enjoy their simple but much more blissful retirement lifestyle with their fully paid up Security Asset portfolio.

10. Consequently, if they are indeed truly motivated to want to take more risks towant to further expand on their existing portfolio as you seems to be telling us in this forum, then I will also make the same suggestion as Aceyducey i.e " to teach them how to fish, rather than to fish for them". I certainly knew that both your parents how know how to fish to a certain extent, so instead of getting them to catch small fishes, I will try to show them how to catch the big fishes if I am indeed "smarter" than them, at my present young age.

11 On the other hand, I will encourage you to go back to ask your parents and clairfy honestly who are really the "fishermen" this time round i.e is it YOUR dreams that they are actually supporting and prepared to risk losing their A$230,000 house equity in order to create the opportunity for their children to learn, grow and be successful in their future adult lives now or truly as you said, THEIR dreams i.e you are merely helping them to achieve their life dreams to further on their financial assets holding and wealth for the family.

12. Some food for your thought, please.

13. Thank you.

God Bless,
Kenneth KOH
 
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Kenneth's paragraph 11 resonates with me - do your parents really want to invest or have you worn them down over the last few years with some sort of chinese water torture???
 
Hi Wealthcreator,

I think giving your parents options will help then learn about what may be possible and the risks.

My 2cents worth.

I would first figure out what will happen if they do nothing. Calculate when they can retire and the amount of income they can get from their existing IP rent and super via annuity ....

They have time on their side and probably another 10 years working life to assist with paying for any negative geared properties they many find (I am not saying go and buy negative geared properties rather saying they have sevicability through their incomes and can probably get bank loans without any problem).

They will probably want to be CF+(in their investment properties) when they retire for peace of mind.

They can probably expect another property boom some time into retirement and will kick themselves if they only have 1 IP.

Weighing all of this up, I would focus on trying to buy another 2 IP's before retirement. I would propbably downsize the ppor (preferably in a sellers market) to increase cashflow and keep some peace of mind. This could allow some $$'s for travel, fun, health etc.

I believe an approach like this one will not have them 'scrimping & scraping' or 'not sleeping at night'.

Note: This isn't financial advice, rather 'off the cuff' thinking that i see as low risk.

Hope this helps with some ideas
 
Wealthcreator,
Since you are talking a reasonable sum of money, talk to a financial planner. It's all too complex as you approach retirement and you need to know the rules ..I sure don't ! On this forum you will find quite a few threads that discuss Peter Spann. Some are fans (me, because I have followed him and his property strategies for years and made a lot of dough) .... & some forumites are not fans. Spann has an outfit called Freeman Fox that does this stuff, and my "read" is they are not too bad. After "watching" them and Spann for a while now, I'm about to give them some of my money to find out.
Check it out .Go to a free seminar. That'll cost you "zip".

LL

PS 57 gets younger the closer you get to it ..OK !! :)
 
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