Who will you leave your fortune too?
- Thread starter Sultan of Swing
- Start date
geoffw said:
My father died at 75; my mother is 77 tomorrow and has many years left in her yet. I am expecting to be here for another 40 years at least (especially with medical advances being what they are) which means I will be 90.
Based on this, I believe you can plan out how much you need in assets to support your desired lifestyle, add in a contigency factor for the risks and go about accumulating assets.
Does life go according to plan - hell no!! (my apologies to our Canadian readers). Does that mean you shouldn't plan - hell no!!! It means you plan, monitor how things are going vs your plan on a regular basis and take corrective action to keep things on track (like planes on auto-pilot; they are off course more than they are on course - it's the corrective action that gets them from departure to destination).
I don't want to be old and decrepit, in a nursing home with tens or hundreds of $millions of assets.
There is probably a bigger risk that I won't make it to 90 - that is why I stated the following in my previous post in this thread:
kierank said:If things don't go to plan, there is always the testamentary trusts which will give me some control after we are gone
PS
I will put my project management background/upbringing back into its box
As someone who has
- put himself through uni without any cash from parents
- got married and paid for wedding without any cash from the parents or inlaws
- bought first car and traveled to Europe a few times without help from parents
- bought PPOR without any help from parents
- now working towards financial independence without any help from parents
... I'd recommend to parents to not feel too compelled to leave anything to their children or to help them out financially too much. I have a sense of pride knowing I can and will do it on my own, which I wouldn't have if I came into some financial windfall all because I came out of the right womb.
As it turns out, my parents didn't have the chance to offer me money at these stages of their lives, because they are battling for their own retirement. One of my motivations to become wealthy is because I want to look after them, they're not good with money and I want to see them live on something a little better than the pension.
- put himself through uni without any cash from parents
- got married and paid for wedding without any cash from the parents or inlaws
- bought first car and traveled to Europe a few times without help from parents
- bought PPOR without any help from parents
- now working towards financial independence without any help from parents
... I'd recommend to parents to not feel too compelled to leave anything to their children or to help them out financially too much. I have a sense of pride knowing I can and will do it on my own, which I wouldn't have if I came into some financial windfall all because I came out of the right womb.
As it turns out, my parents didn't have the chance to offer me money at these stages of their lives, because they are battling for their own retirement. One of my motivations to become wealthy is because I want to look after them, they're not good with money and I want to see them live on something a little better than the pension.
the thing is that, all going to plan, by the time most of us drop off the twig the kids will be probably nearing retirement, or late in their working life, anyhow. that being said, i will leave some to the kids, but plan on spending most of it before i go - i soooooo want to travel and travel in a pleasant manner (not luxury).
a good plan is that my mother gave all us kids a financial gift when she sold the farm and all the rest has been put into property to be held in trust with the income to finance her grandkids/greatgrandkids/greatgreatgrandkids uni educations.
a good plan is that my mother gave all us kids a financial gift when she sold the farm and all the rest has been put into property to be held in trust with the income to finance her grandkids/greatgrandkids/greatgreatgrandkids uni educations.
I don't think it really matters what you do with it when you're on your way out. If you leave it to the kids, they may spend it, they may make it bigger. When they go, the same thing for their kids and on it goes, until somewhere along the line there will be nothing (it will happen eventually).
You could give it to a charity, sure while Joe Bloggs is in charge it will get used for the best possible uses, but when John Smith takes over things change, then Jane Doe, eventually it's all gone.
Leave it in trust, with your trustworthy accountant/trustee looking after everything smoothly. That's all well and good, but what happens when they move on? Eventually it's going to disappear
I don't think we should be too concerned about what is going to happen to our cash when we go. In the end it really doesn't matter, because we will be gone. As long as you enjoy life then that is all that matters.
I personally will be enjoying myself as much as possible and if there is some left over (I'm expecting there to be a lot) I'll be passing it on to my kids to do what they will.
BR
PS. I'm 23 and have no kids yet, so who knows what I may say in another few years. I have every intention to live past 100 so I've got another 80 odd years to think about it.
You could give it to a charity, sure while Joe Bloggs is in charge it will get used for the best possible uses, but when John Smith takes over things change, then Jane Doe, eventually it's all gone.
Leave it in trust, with your trustworthy accountant/trustee looking after everything smoothly. That's all well and good, but what happens when they move on? Eventually it's going to disappear
I don't think we should be too concerned about what is going to happen to our cash when we go. In the end it really doesn't matter, because we will be gone. As long as you enjoy life then that is all that matters.
I personally will be enjoying myself as much as possible and if there is some left over (I'm expecting there to be a lot) I'll be passing it on to my kids to do what they will.
BR
PS. I'm 23 and have no kids yet, so who knows what I may say in another few years. I have every intention to live past 100 so I've got another 80 odd years to think about it.
This is something I've been thinking about lately - is it really the "kid's" inheritance? By this, I mean, should children actually feel entitled to some sort of monetary windfall on the death of their parents?DaleGG said:
I've always been of the mindset that if you spend a lifetime earning it, then you should get the benefit of using it to enjoy your life - I love reading stories about these retirees selling up and buying RV's, travelling the countryside, or going overseas and seeing the things they were never able to see because they were always working.
Of course, Im not advocating wasting a lifetime of savings, just that there seems to be this perspective (mainly in the media) that parents might be selfish by doing this, whereas I think its merely enjoying the fruits of their labour.
Lets say a couple die around 75 years of age (just under the Aust. average). Assuming they had children at around 25 years of age, their children would be around 45-50 years old. Should people in their 40's and 50's (and with half a lifetime of their own behind them) feel entitled to something their parents worked their lives for? I dont think so. If these children are in the 40's and 50's and haven't worked out how to look after themselves, they definitely dont have any right to feel slighted if their parents end up leaving them nothing.
This isnt in any way detracting from those parents that wish to leave something for their children - this is something I applaud. Its more an endictment of those that think they are entitled to something that someone else spent a lifetime saving and squirrelling away. When I hear stories in print media or on TV about selfish boomers "spending the kids inheritance" it makes me shudder. It never belonged to the kids in the first place.
Jamie.
My intent is to spend as much as I want to spend and on anything that takes my fancy.
BUT and it is a big but, I also intend to keep building our fortune in such a way that there will be more than enough left over for my two sons.
I regard our wealth as family wealth and as such it is already my son's as much as it is mine and any new ventures we undertake will include my sons as partners.
Cheers
PS The biggest risk (outside of market risks) will be the daughter in laws and the attitudes that they will bring to the table.
BUT and it is a big but,
I also intend to keep building our fortune in such a way that there will be more than enough left over for my two sons.I regard our wealth as family wealth and as such it is already my son's as much as it is mine and any new ventures we undertake will include my sons as partners.
Cheers
PS The biggest risk (outside of market risks) will be the daughter in laws and the attitudes that they will bring to the table.
Well said Andy.
Thats why we have a trust set up, so future partners cannot take away the wealth.
I guess we are lucky though, our 11 and 9 year old daughters already know the value of money, and girls are the ones who come out of messy relationships (hope that obviously doesnt happen though!!) less scathed thanks to our court system. Its our 5 year old son that may be the worry, but we have plenty of time to work on his attitudes to money
Thats why we have a trust set up, so future partners cannot take away the wealth.
I guess we are lucky though, our 11 and 9 year old daughters already know the value of money, and girls are the ones who come out of messy relationships (hope that obviously doesnt happen though!!) less scathed thanks to our court system. Its our 5 year old son that may be the worry, but we have plenty of time to work on his attitudes to money
Jamie said:
I couldn't agree more, Jamie.
If someone spends their entire life working on the wealth, isn't it theirs? This whole idea of spending the kids' inheritance is rubbish, in my opinion. If you earned it, do what you want with it, as long as it harms no one.
Personally, if I have kids one day, they would have to prove themselves deserving of my wealth. If would only offer it to them if they could demonstrate to me they can look after it and grow and use it wisely — if they couldn't I would do my best to educate them, but worse case, I'd offer it to charities of my choosing. After all, isn't one of the main points of wealth, to look after yourself those who matter most to you?
Also, as an aside, you does one spend all of their wealth? Shouldn't the 'wealth' be 'self sustaining'? If you're spending it like there's no tomorrow, perhaps you should be re-evaluating things...?
Just my thoughts...
It has occurred to me down the track that it may be possible to hold the amount until the beneficiary has reached a certain amt in net profit then they get their inheritance. Is there such a thing ????
A bit along the lines of parents saying "if you save the first $5000 we will kick in the rest for a car"
Except it would mean that they had to achieve and build their own asset base before the rest is released. Don't know if there is such a thing but it occurred to me. That way the beneficiary has motivation to attain skills and abilities and CONFIDENCE. Hopefully WIN-WIN.
A bit along the lines of parents saying "if you save the first $5000 we will kick in the rest for a car"
Except it would mean that they had to achieve and build their own asset base before the rest is released. Don't know if there is such a thing but it occurred to me. That way the beneficiary has motivation to attain skills and abilities and CONFIDENCE. Hopefully WIN-WIN.
I come from a family of long livers and so does my wife .
Only one of my Grandparents didn't make it to their 80's and of the next ( my parents generation ) the only one's who didn't make it were the smokers and a couple of body builders ... ( no just joking .. ) .
My parents have just turned 80 , and my father is in the process of finishing a book on management , summarising his approach ( worked at AGSM for many years after being a CEO ) . My Mother at 83 is brushing up on her french before running some courses at the local community college. Any money we inherit will probably help fund our retirement
That's the way I plan it with our kids , Similar to Kierank ( good schools , education etc, help start them off in life ) except I plan on living off the income and keeping our capital intact . Then their inheritance can help them towards the end of their working life.
See Change
Only one of my Grandparents didn't make it to their 80's and of the next ( my parents generation ) the only one's who didn't make it were the smokers and a couple of body builders ... ( no just joking ..
) .My parents have just turned 80 , and my father is in the process of finishing a book on management , summarising his approach ( worked at AGSM for many years after being a CEO ) . My Mother at 83 is brushing up on her french before running some courses at the local community college. Any money we inherit will probably help fund our retirement
That's the way I plan it with our kids , Similar to Kierank ( good schools , education etc, help start them off in life ) except I plan on living off the income and keeping our capital intact . Then their inheritance can help them towards the end of their working life.
See Change
see_change said:...the only one's who didn't make it were the smokers and a couple of body builders ... ( no just joking ..
*pokes tongue out at Seech*Anyway...
I reckon my boy is gonna get a fairly good inheritence and good luck to him. I'll get to the point in the not too distant future where my passive income not only "feeds" the system so my net worth keeps growing without any intervention, but it also pays for my lifestyle in retirement too.
Unlike some posts here, it won't take a "lifetime" to make this money, it will take a solid block of 10-15 years of effort, then it will take care of itself. I'll spend my "lifetime" enjoying it and have enough left over to give my son a kick-start when I kick the you-know-what.
If he blows it all on women and booze, well that's his business. At least it will have gone to a good purpose...
Cheers,
Michael.
If you look back through history, you might need to adjust your perspective on the negative connotations being expressed here re inheritance.
Historically, children inherited property from their parents, or there was enough land to go around so that one didn't spend their whole life paying it off, rather then putting those resources towards perpetuating the species with an ever greater survival advantage. Incidentally, this is what is happening now. Many couples are delaying or choosing not to have children at all, because they have to pay off an expensive property. i.e. check the fertility rate.
Anyone who has read a little history of scientific and medical breakthroughs will soon find that this was the domain of the offspring of the elites. i.e. those who didn't have to toil in the fields, because their families had accumulated enough wealth, that little Thomas or Robert could spend time experimenting with natural laws and better ways of doing things.
I would be most happy if I see my wealth go towards perpetuating my values. I would expect that there was a higher chance of that happening by leaving the wealth to my children, rather then someone elses'. If that chance wasn't higher, what does it say about my child rearing skills?
Many say that valuable life lessons are not learnt if money is granted without effort. That might be true, but that will very much depend on the values instilled into those kids.
One of my favourite sayings in relation to this is:
"To those who much is given, much is expected"
It is up to the parents who bequeath a lot materially to their offspring, to bequeath a lot in character development as well.
Historically, children inherited property from their parents, or there was enough land to go around so that one didn't spend their whole life paying it off, rather then putting those resources towards perpetuating the species with an ever greater survival advantage. Incidentally, this is what is happening now. Many couples are delaying or choosing not to have children at all, because they have to pay off an expensive property. i.e. check the fertility rate.
Anyone who has read a little history of scientific and medical breakthroughs will soon find that this was the domain of the offspring of the elites. i.e. those who didn't have to toil in the fields, because their families had accumulated enough wealth, that little Thomas or Robert could spend time experimenting with natural laws and better ways of doing things.
I would be most happy if I see my wealth go towards perpetuating my values. I would expect that there was a higher chance of that happening by leaving the wealth to my children, rather then someone elses'. If that chance wasn't higher, what does it say about my child rearing skills?
Many say that valuable life lessons are not learnt if money is granted without effort. That might be true, but that will very much depend on the values instilled into those kids.
One of my favourite sayings in relation to this is:
"To those who much is given, much is expected"
It is up to the parents who bequeath a lot materially to their offspring, to bequeath a lot in character development as well.
MichaelWhyte said:.
If he blows it all on women and booze, well that's his business. At least it will have gone to a good purpose...
Cheers,
Michael.
or to quote George best , that great thinker.
“I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted"
See Change
We will spend what we want to spend and expect there will be some left when we open the next door. I think our boy does expect, but not rely on, the inheritance. Expect , because he knows us so well there is no point to pretend he won't get anything from us.
In our youth, hubby and I did not have the luxury to do what we wanted to do (career wise). We had to select the uni courses which were relatively short, and had high probability of getting a job quickly.
We now told our boy never mind the money, select the career he would enjoy even if it takes longer to study and won't pay very high. If our wealth could provide him (now, not when we go) the luxury to do just that, we would be very happy.
Some forumites comment on the -ve impacts of parents giving to children etc.
I disagree. Yes it could be -ve but does not always have to be. I think I have said before that accepting help/$$ from parents and be independent/successful are not necessary mutually exclusive.
In our youth, hubby and I did not have the luxury to do what we wanted to do (career wise). We had to select the uni courses which were relatively short, and had high probability of getting a job quickly.
We now told our boy never mind the money, select the career he would enjoy even if it takes longer to study and won't pay very high. If our wealth could provide him (now, not when we go) the luxury to do just that, we would be very happy.
Some forumites comment on the -ve impacts of parents giving to children etc.
I disagree. Yes it could be -ve but does not always have to be. I think I have said before that accepting help/$$ from parents and be independent/successful are not necessary mutually exclusive.
It's going to be an afterthought. i.e. my kids get whatever is left. I won't be specifically planning to give them anything.
On the other hand, I don't want anything from my parents. I'd be really happy if they left me nothing, because it means they used and enjoyed everything they earned.
Alex
On the other hand, I don't want anything from my parents. I'd be really happy if they left me nothing, because it means they used and enjoyed everything they earned.
Alex
Alex / Salsa,
Yep, that's exactly where I stand too. Although, I know my parents are going to leave me quite a bit because that's something they've always strove to do. I love them deeply, and they've always put their kids first in everything they do. Mum said the other day that if they died tomorrow then each of their three kids would get over $500K. Not that I "require" this, but I certainly wouldn't turn it down either if you know what I mean.
Personally, I'd rather they flogged off some IPs or reverse mortgaged them and then used the proceeds to travel the world. They prefer to just hook the caravan on the back of the camry and travel around Australia. Whatever makes them happy I say.
Cheers,
Michael.
Yep, that's exactly where I stand too.
Although, I know my parents are going to leave me quite a bit because that's something they've always strove to do. I love them deeply, and they've always put their kids first in everything they do. Mum said the other day that if they died tomorrow then each of their three kids would get over $500K. Not that I "require" this, but I certainly wouldn't turn it down either if you know what I mean.Personally, I'd rather they flogged off some IPs or reverse mortgaged them and then used the proceeds to travel the world. They prefer to just hook the caravan on the back of the camry and travel around Australia. Whatever makes them happy I say.
Cheers,
Michael.
