salsa said:Mark (Pitt ST), not sure what your points are in relation to the topic ?
Actually they are very relevant to the topic.
See Change
Why do high income earners rent?
- Thread starter quickerblade
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Actually they are very relevant to the topic.
See Change
salsa said:
Remember the original post that started this thread (below)??
quickerblade said:
Why do they rent?
For some of them it would be that although they can earn truckloads of money, they spend it as soon as they get it.
Therefore, they never save for a deposit on a PPOR.
Therefore (barring 100% loans and being given a deposit) they don't buy a house.
Ever heard the adage?:
It is not what you earn, but what you save and invest, that matters.
Mark
salsa said:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say you should talk to a bank unless its to say "Put your hands up and no one will get hurt"
Search the forum or talk to Rolf who posts here, he's a broker, and a very good one, I can tell you from experience. Compare what they can offer to what your bank offers. You'll probably be surprised. Brokers shop around various lenders to find the package that best suits your circumstances, and the lenders pay their fees, not you (well no more than you pay the bank manager's wages anyway
) Just be sure to do your homework because there are good and bad brokers.
And re. your question about BIG, I've never been sorry (I don't mix well socially with others ;-) ) but everyone says its very good - have fun !
Pitt St said:
Very true. Another reason could be their age - my social group has been very successful professionally ever since leaving university - straight into $80k jobs at the age of 23 for Arthur Anderson or Ernst and Young etc etc with lots of international travel and the good life. The Sydney IT industry has settled down since then but they have consolidated their careers.
I guess a question that comes to my mind is how much does one need to earn until one is classified as a high income earner?
My wife and I earn a combined $190k in salary before super or maybe $220k inc investments and we rent @ $300 per week. We rent because we want to invest in good debt not bad debt, and until the Sydney property market picks up with 5%+ returns and positive capital gains we see a PPOR as bad debt.
This corresponds to my margin loan doing quite handsomely. At 55% gearing, my prepaid interest for this financial year was paid for by my June 30 dividend. So for the next three quarters assuming the unit prices stay static it's all good
*************************************Aceyducey said:
Dear Aceyducey,
Well said!
Cheers
Kenneth KOH
Dear Glebe,
Thank you for sharing and explaining the rationale for your thoughts with us from your own first hand experiences.
Cheers,
Kenneth KOH
Thank you for sharing and explaining the rationale for your thoughts with us from your own first hand experiences.
Cheers,
Kenneth KOH
Have you heard the saying "a mans home is his castle".
What a sad state of a affairs if one has to rent to make a few bucks.
If one owns his own house he is still an investor in property and will derive a great deal more pleasure titivating and filling it with all the treasures he loves.
I think one should own and live in his own house.
Has common sense gone out with the bath water?
What a sad state of a affairs if one has to rent to make a few bucks.
If one owns his own house he is still an investor in property and will derive a great deal more pleasure titivating and filling it with all the treasures he loves.
I think one should own and live in his own house.
Has common sense gone out with the bath water?
markp said:
Can't agree with you Mark
I rent because I choose too. It is a lifestyle choice.Where I live would cost me close to a million to buy plus monstrous body corp fees. I have an indoor and outdoor pool and extensive grounds that someone else pays for. I have nice views, security car parking and a space I enjoy living in.
I rent out my Sydney unit that was my PPOR for more than I pay in rent here
Mark,
I don't agree with you either.
Horses for courses. For certain strategies and lifestyles owning your own home directly is not a sound approach.
And if your focus is on playing tradesman and collecting doodads you're not likely to achieve the success you could via investing.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
I don't agree with you either.
Horses for courses. For certain strategies and lifestyles owning your own home directly is not a sound approach.
And if your focus is on playing tradesman and collecting doodads you're not likely to achieve the success you could via investing.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
Hi Gang,
In some cases people chasing big bucks or wanting to progress their careers find they need to be transient. Given the very high costs associated with purchasing and selling a home you need to be damn sure you will be living there for a number of years. Some will suggest that when you move on you convert you PPOR to a IP. However in our case the type of place we love to live in I would never want to own as in IP (eg high rise with great amenities but high BC fees etc).
We learnt the hard way by following our parents mantra that rent is dead money and would be many tens of thousands of dollars ahead had we rented at times over the years rather than purchased PPORs. Anyhow for our circumstances renting is a winner.
Cheers - Gordon
In some cases people chasing big bucks or wanting to progress their careers find they need to be transient. Given the very high costs associated with purchasing and selling a home you need to be damn sure you will be living there for a number of years. Some will suggest that when you move on you convert you PPOR to a IP. However in our case the type of place we love to live in I would never want to own as in IP (eg high rise with great amenities but high BC fees etc).
We learnt the hard way by following our parents mantra that rent is dead money and would be many tens of thousands of dollars ahead had we rented at times over the years rather than purchased PPORs. Anyhow for our circumstances renting is a winner.
Cheers - Gordon
sounds good to meani said:Can't agree with you Mark
I rent because I choose too. It is a lifestyle choice.Where I live would cost me close to a million to buy plus monstrous body corp fees. I have an indoor and outdoor pool and extensive grounds that someone else pays for. I have nice views, security car parking and a space I enjoy living in.
I rent out my Sydney unit that was my PPOR for more than I pay in rent here
Mark,markp said:
I think, I know what you are saying. Home ownership isn’t for everyone though. There are many reasons why. I agree however that on average it is better to live in your own place. I saw very few people who deal responsibly with the uncommitted income they have due to renting (i.e. invest somewhere). Majority just spends this extra surplus using many of the standard excuses and they miss out on capital growth of the PPOR. Many just forget that while interest to the bank may be higher than rent the capital growth usually compensates this shortage handsomely.
I have MBA friends who continue to rent because PPOR isn’t investment according to their knowledge (it is probably correct strictly and theoretically speaking) and they continue to spend. Years go past and we are further and further apart in terms of the net wealth. We did have a rather sizeable mortgage but it disappeared with our efforts, they still have BMW… It is all indeed horses for courses.
M.
Bmw or debt free property............property wins.Mikhaila said:
**************************************************salsa said:
Dear Salsa,
It's your own call depending on what your own investing/life goals are and what you want to believe regarding the future CG for your present PPOR.
So, what do you believe (or want to believe, rather) exactly and what do you intend or/and plan to do now with your PPOR house;- that you find yourself in a "dilemna" that you cannot decide things for yourself now?
Perhaps, if you are can be more specific about your situation and queries, we can give you better feedback for your subsequent due considerations,please.
Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOH
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Dear All,
1. I think what we are talking about here, is concerning one' personal beliefs and value system regarding house/home ownership and personal lifestyle choices. They are highly subjective and relative, depending on one's personal value system and beliefs. As far as I am concerned, there can be no definite or absolute "right" or "wrong" as far as our individual beliefs and personal values are concerned.
2. Thus, let us be more senstive and careful about this topic under discussion and the contents of our posts as it is highly and "personally sensitive" for some members. "Crossing the invisible red threshold line" whether knowingly or knowingly, can often be mis-perceived or/and mis-construed as a lack of respect for others or not respecting others' personal value systems and beliefs or/and lifestyle choices!
3. ... Hmm, I wonder if there are truly indeed objective grounds and less sensitve aspects of the topic here that we can discuss fruitfully and yet not cause the others to feel offended during our discussion, in this context.
4. For your kind and gracious considerations, please.
5. Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOH
1. I think what we are talking about here, is concerning one' personal beliefs and value system regarding house/home ownership and personal lifestyle choices. They are highly subjective and relative, depending on one's personal value system and beliefs. As far as I am concerned, there can be no definite or absolute "right" or "wrong" as far as our individual beliefs and personal values are concerned.
2. Thus, let us be more senstive and careful about this topic under discussion and the contents of our posts as it is highly and "personally sensitive" for some members. "Crossing the invisible red threshold line" whether knowingly or knowingly, can often be mis-perceived or/and mis-construed as a lack of respect for others or not respecting others' personal value systems and beliefs or/and lifestyle choices!
3. ... Hmm, I wonder if there are truly indeed objective grounds and less sensitve aspects of the topic here that we can discuss fruitfully and yet not cause the others to feel offended during our discussion, in this context.
4. For your kind and gracious considerations, please.
5. Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOH
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Sensitivity
Kenneth,
Thank you your comments.
I am a high income earner, I own a BMW convertible and my own home (not debt free). I've also rented in my life, in suburbs where I couldn't afford to buy at the time. I've spent loads and loads of money, and had a damn good time doing so, yet I have also saved (and continue to save) when I have a goal. So I don't own investment property yet, but I will, and if I don't...well my life will go on and I'll still enjoy it thanks very much. Not everyone wants to stop working. Some of us enjoy our jobs strangely enough!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the way they want to run their life but there is no right or wrong way to do things. It depends on your goals and your dreams. I very much enjoy my own home and would personally now hate to rent, and I have never regretted a minute of hooning around in my car with the roof down. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow or even worse become ill (god forbid) and so I live for today whilst I try to sensibly plan for tomorrow in case I get to that ripe old age of 100.
As Kenneth said, lets respect everyones choices. These forums are to help each other where we can, but also to respect that we all want different things out of life and we all live in different ways. As a newcomer to the forums, I have found that responses can sometimes be critical of others choices or suggestions.
Not all of us want to put every cent into investments and live on the smell of an oil rag in order to give up working for someone else. Some of us have busted our butts to earn that big salary and we have the right to enjoy it. Do we not also have the right to become investors as well? And if we don't want to become investors for some reason, does that make us idiots because we don't have a large net worth but we have a BMW??
Am I sensitive...hell yes! Sorry, but my whole life just got shot down in flames in this one forum.
Kennethkohsg said:
Kenneth,
Thank you your comments.
I am a high income earner, I own a BMW convertible and my own home (not debt free). I've also rented in my life, in suburbs where I couldn't afford to buy at the time. I've spent loads and loads of money, and had a damn good time doing so, yet I have also saved (and continue to save) when I have a goal. So I don't own investment property yet, but I will, and if I don't...well my life will go on and I'll still enjoy it thanks very much. Not everyone wants to stop working. Some of us enjoy our jobs strangely enough!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the way they want to run their life but there is no right or wrong way to do things. It depends on your goals and your dreams. I very much enjoy my own home and would personally now hate to rent, and I have never regretted a minute of hooning around in my car with the roof down. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow or even worse become ill (god forbid) and so I live for today whilst I try to sensibly plan for tomorrow in case I get to that ripe old age of 100.
As Kenneth said, lets respect everyones choices. These forums are to help each other where we can, but also to respect that we all want different things out of life and we all live in different ways. As a newcomer to the forums, I have found that responses can sometimes be critical of others choices or suggestions.
Not all of us want to put every cent into investments and live on the smell of an oil rag in order to give up working for someone else. Some of us have busted our butts to earn that big salary and we have the right to enjoy it. Do we not also have the right to become investors as well? And if we don't want to become investors for some reason, does that make us idiots because we don't have a large net worth but we have a BMW??
Am I sensitive...hell yes! Sorry, but my whole life just got shot down in flames in this one forum.
goddessk said:Am I sensitive...hell yes! Sorry, but my whole life just got shot down in flames in this one forum.
Goddessk,
If you were truly happy and secure about your choices why would you be so sensitive about them?
Maybe it's not your life being shot down in flames you feel, but some inner doubts about your choices.
Be open to these doubts, take some time out to assess them in yourself. You might discover that what you want out of life has changed.
How much does the prestige and power of a high paying job really mean if you get very sick and cannot do it anymore? Or the company restructures and you become surplus to requirements?
How much does that gold watch really mean after you leave the office for the last time on retirement?
In other words, how much of the position will translate to the person after the job?
Many of us in this forum hold or have held high paying jobs, flown around the world on business, been wooed by suppliers, partners and even public figures.
But we're all more than the sum of our parts.
Challenge your assumptions! And challenge yourself constantly to verify if you are actually happy, or are really just busy.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
