Wills, Funerals, and everything nasty.....

[Pushka]

Maybe this should be a poll, but having recently updated our Wills (well, they are almost updated!) I was wondering, for those of us who have a complex structure of loans, trusts etc etc, lots of debt but lots of assets, actually have a proper will put in place so those who are left behind, dont have the challenge to sort it all out.

Our last one was done 13 years ago, and now the kids are all grown up, and there is even talk (in the will, that is) of grandchildrens inheritance

Not only that, but a Power of Attorney, so you dont fall into the arms of the Guardianship Board (a fate worse than hell I believe) and also a Medical Advise form (eg a do not resuscitate etc etc).

So how many of you have looked at this part of your life ; how many of you couldn't care less, and how many keep putting it off for a better day!

 

[want2bewealthy]

Well I personally havent done a will simply because I dont have much to give, I have some descent savings and an IO loan but who wants to take over that...? lol Oh and an old 95 Commodore, again, who in their right mind would want to drive that..
I have no kids, just me

 

[wylie]

This is a really important thing to have under control. My parents are in the process of updating their wills, and enduring powers of attorney due to a very complicated family situation. During this process they discovered that their previous will, done by a solicitor, would have virtually meant that one third of their whole estate would go to a grandchild they have hardly any contact with.

This will DID (try to) ensure that one of my brothers has somewhere to live but that on his death, this house would be sold and the proceeds distributed amongst the grandchildren. The solicitor who is now redrawing their will, has told them that the way the old will was written, the testementary trust they had organised, could not be wound up on my brother's death the way they wanted, and the lot would have gone to his child. He has had to fight to see this child for 13 years, so my parents obviously don't want the child's mother to get her hands on a huge windfall.

Anyway, we have current wills, but because my parents are establishing a family trust, as soon as their wills and the trust are up and running, we need to alter our wills. We will be using the solicitor who is doing my parents, as he knows the complications involved.

My husband's father left a poisoned chalice, which caused more rifts in the family than already there. He left things unevenly, with no explanations why, and it has caused huge resentment.

Definitely have a will drawn up by a specialist solicitor if your estate will be complicated and if you plan to leave things unequally, make sure that you attach a document giving a reason. It can help in any future contesting of the will, and can help those left behind to understand why you did it that way.

 

[steveadl]

Hi Pushka,

Just went through the whole process with my lawyer. It's quite amazing how much stuff there is to go through, as you mentioned. Power of Attorney, Power of Guardianship, executors, medical instructions, different scenarios etc.

Lawyer I used was very good, and VERY thorough! There is an answer in the will for every possible scenario ie. if I die first, if my partner dies at the same time, if we both die and there are 3 children but one of them died but had kids, if we all die but the budgie who lived next door to us in the 80's is still alive etc...

Was very impressed with the end result. Also handy as I've now signed an Absentee Power of Attorney (don't quote me as that's probably not the right term), which means I have enabled 2 persons to act on my behalf with my assets if I am out of the country. Also, as currently the assets I have are in my personal name - once I die, everything gets put into Testamentary Trusts for income and tax purposes to the benefit of my beneficiaries. This is only possible for assets not held in trusts though.

My lawyer pointed out to me how important it is to account for any possible scenarios that may arise so the will remains valid and is not able to be brought into question as to it's intentions. Many simpler wills can run into problems down this track.

I put it off for waaaay too long, but it's done now, and I feel better. Now just need to pay the second half of the lawyers bill!

 

[Raddles]

Hi there
anyone over the age of 18 years should have a will and a power of attorney regardless of the property you have to give - if there is not much you can get away without having to obtain probate - to be able to distribute to your next of kin.

If you don't have one the rules of intestacy apply - and who in their right mind would want to ultimately benefit consolidated revenue rather than their relatives.

Most agro occurs with families who don't have a well thought out estate planning procedure in place - so please do get one W2W and have a power of attorney in place. I well recall having to get the Chief Magistrate in the ACT to approve my sister's medical treatment in intensive care because she did not have capacity (she is Down's Syndrome) and there was no power of attorney in place. You never know when it could become necessary.
thanks

 

[LynnH]

We updated our Wills/Powers of Attorney/Advanced Health Directives/etc a couple of months ago - something that was about 20 years overdue. I had done a lot of reading and research before we went to the solicitors, but even after that I have to admit my head was spinning with information overload a lot of the time.

How complicated our lives have become - a byproduct of being such a litigious society, I guess. But it is so important to cover every eventuality and get it right: you've worked hard for what you have, so no point in giving it all away inadvertently through lack of awareness or knowledge.

Cheers
LynnH

 

[wylie]

This thread reminds me of a file back in my banking days, where a husband and wife had both died beside the road after a car crash, and the housing loan file had sat for (I think) about seven years while it went through the courts to decide who had died first.

Depending on whether the husband or the wife had died first made quite a difference to the estate. I cannot remember any more details, but was amazed at how long this had been going on. In the meantime, everything was frozen and the families could not move forward. Don't remember if the house was left empty, or if there were children left, but what a mess that could be.

 

[wish-ga]

Well I personally havent done a will simply because I dont have much to give...

I used to think that way too. My sister in law pointed out that if one dies without a will the govt can take the estate (since it isn't clear what the deceased intended).

That made me think I'd rather the money from super/savings/sale of vehicle is better with those I love even though it isn't a huge amount.

Not sure if she said only applies under certain circumstances but it made me act. Put something in writing even if it isn't a super-duper attorney drawn up one. At least it shows your intentions.

 

[lizzie]

we last updated our wills 5 years ago - so probably about time we did so again.

just to make sure everything goes to where we want it to go.

 

[LynnH]

lizzie

Our solicitor advised us to reassess our situation every 2 years and, if necessary, update our wills. I guess it makes sense - if you're on a roll, you can buy quite a lot of property in 2 years!

Cheers
LynnH

 

[Sheryn]

Most important to have your wills ( and wishes ) written up

We have updated our
a) wills
b) general power of attorney enduring (if involved in accident and can't manage affairs, authority to manage affairs activated)
c) an enduring guardianship (if we get dementia this can be activated to manage our affairs)
d) advanced health care directive (terminal medical condition - make us comfortable e.g. painfree, don't keep us alive)

Also paid for our 2 children to have their wills etc. done as I consider it important.

Many years ago my husband's brother was killed without a will and my husband had to organise his affairs so know first hand how messy it can be and unfair.


Regards
Sheryn

 

[steveadl]

This thread reminds me of a file back in my banking days, where a husband and wife had both died beside the road after a car crash, and the housing loan file had sat for (I think) about seven years while it went through the courts to decide who had died first.

Depending on whether the husband or the wife had died first made quite a difference to the estate. I cannot remember any more details, but was amazed at how long this had been going on. In the meantime, everything was frozen and the families could not move forward. Don't remember if the house was left empty, or if there were children left, but what a mess that could be.

My lawyer mentioned this to me amongst the mountain of other issues we discussed.

I remember him saying something to me about them assuming that when time of death can't be established, they assume the elder of the two people died first for legal purposes. But I could be remembering wrong.

 

[Skye]

As soon as children came along so did the will. Of course a will is necessary even if there are no dependents. First time around I did one myself, but soon upgraded to State Trustees for a nominal fee. I've found it so much easier to structure with S.T. onboard- only problem is they have stopped having a representative visit country areas which is a pest as now I need a day trip within school hours to and from Melb. to update further.

 

[Pushka]

First time around I did one myself, but soon upgraded to State Trustees for a nominal fee. I've found it so much easier to structure with S.T. onboard-.

I am curious as to why you might have gone with the State Trustees - I thought their administrative fees were really, really high?

Our lawyer has administered a few of our Estates - they don't send a bill for preparing the Will, as we have nominated them to be Executors if we both disappear off the planet at the same time!

 

[Perp]

My husband's father left a poisoned chalice, which caused more rifts in the family than already there. He left things unevenly, with no explanations why, and it has caused huge resentment.

Why on earth do people do things like that, I wonder?

A friend's grandmother had a sizable estate - including an acre right on the Esplanade at Henley Beach for those South Aussies - and when she died had 3 or 4 children and about 8 or 10 grandkids (and about 20 great grandkids too!), all of whom she was close to, all of whom were in her life, all of whom were in roughly similar financial circumstances. No family rifts, nothing.

They open the will, and for no stated reason, or even a reason anybody could guess at, she had unexpectedly left everything to one of the many grandsons, who wasn't any closer to her than anybody else. He was left in a most unenviable position.

His first inclination was to say "she was obviously senile, this makes no sense, let's just split it up amongst everybody", but then he couldn't come up with an alternative way to split it up that made the others happy! He ended up telling the offspring (his father and aunts/uncles) to contest the will and he didn't oppose their contest, and a judge decided how to split up the estate.

What a debacle. I can only assume she was senile, as I'm sure she'd be horrified to know what added grief her will caused.

 

[Perp]

This thread reminds me of a file back in my banking days, where a husband and wife had both died beside the road after a car crash, and the housing loan file had sat for (I think) about seven years while it went through the courts to decide who had died first.

My lawyer mentioned this to me amongst the mountain of other issues we discussed.

I remember him saying something to me about them assuming that when time of death can't be established, they assume the elder of the two people died first for legal purposes. But I could be remembering wrong.

Most wills will have a clause, the legal effect of which is that beneficiaries are only eligible to inherit if they survive you by a specified period, eg 30 days. Consider, for example, you're in a car accident together with your spouse. There are no kids, and you've both got each other as the primary beneficiary, and if your spouse has already passed, your parents. You die immediately and your spouse goes into a coma then dies after 10 days. Without this clause (ie beneficiaries having to out-live you by a certain time), all your assets would flow first to your spouse and then to your former parents-in-law, with your parents being left out! With this clause, your assets would go to your parents, because your spouse's death 10 days after your own disqualifies them as a potential beneficiary of your will.

Of course if your spouse dies after 31 days in a coma, this doesn't help you.

 

[twobobsworth]

How did those with kids approach the issue of guardianship should both parents die?

 

[wylie]

We had my brother as guardian for our kids, and he would also have received a substantial amount of money to use for that and his own needs.

Now the kids are older, our oldest boys would look after the youngest one with help from my parents, and I think that is in the will. We are doing new ones soon, so will make sure we update this bit.

 

[geoffw]

I remember him saying something to me about them assuming that when time of death can't be established, they assume the elder of the two people died first for legal purposes. But I could be remembering wrong.

I remember someting like this- but whether it was the older or the younger, I'm not sure.

I once had a will drawn up by a private trustee organisation. This was before I was married. The will was drawn up for free.

I had two major objections.

One was that the will specified that the estate be "equally divided between my siblings and their children" (this was before I was married and had kids). But it did not state whether that meant that it was divided equally, on share each for each sibling and one share each for their children- or one share for each sibling and then equally between their children.

The other was that they were specified as trustees- and there was nothing to specify how much they could take out of the estate for their services. Potentially (even though they are a very large and ethical organisation) they could have taken everything.

I had a private will drawn up- and I have updated the will several times since- not only as new members of the family have arrived, but also as assets have been accumulated, and structures become more complicated.

 

[wylie]

I believe Public Trustee takes a big slice of the estate for administering wills. Chap in the bank who dealt with this type of stuff told me never to use them.

Also, I don't understand why there is not a central storage facility for wills, like land titles.

The lady whose house we bought after she passed away about twelve years ago left an estate worth about $2M. Salvos were the beneficiaries. She didn't have any children but had an elderly cousin living here with her.

Word is that she drew up a new will a while before she died. An elderly neighbour told another neighbour after she died, that he had witnessed the new will. When she died unexpectedly after a routine operation (even though she was in her 70s) the Salvos gave the other lady one month (I think) to get out. Other neighbours stepped in to gain more time and give her some time to get organised as she had nowhere to go, even though (apparently) the new will had left the house to her.

However, the new will was never found, so the Salvos got the lot.

If there was a central registry, things like this would not happen.