Woohoo, goal #1 achieved, PPOR paid off in only 5 years!

Congrats MW in paying off your PPOR so quickly!! And also your great progress in your Mona Vale development!!

I hope that I can do the same with my up and coming PPOR purchase.

If I want to get a Margin Loan from a BoQ who lend 75% LVR on Navra, and I want to invest about $10k of my own money - does that mean that BoQ will lend me $7,500 in a margin loan, or they will lend me $20k+ (not sure how to work figure out off hand) so that the total loan is $30k and the overall LVR is 70%?

Hey steveadl,
If they have a maximum lend of 75%LVR. You need to have 25% of your money in the total investment amount.
Example: If you would like to invest $10 000. You need to put in $2500 and they will lend $7500 (75% of total value of investment). But of course you will be in danger of a margin call, if the value of your investment drops. Do a search for margin loans and margin calls - they are probably better explanations out there.
 
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Thanks guys, it actually makes perfect sense. I could definitely use the help with the shortfall of IP's in the future! :)

One more quick stupis question about managed funds (sorry):

If I want to get a Margin Loan from a BoQ who lend 75% LVR on Navra, and I want to invest about $10k of my own money - does that mean that BoQ will lend me $7,500 in a margin loan, or they will lend me $20k+ (not sure how to work figure out off hand) so that the total loan is $30k and the overall LVR is 70%? Sorry, stupid question I know :D

It means that your $10K will be the 25% deposit needed to secure the 75% LVR. So the max lend will be $30K to let you own $40K worth of the fund.

But most of us within our community advocate a 50% LVR to manage the risks without being exposed to margin calls on minor price fluctuations. In this case you will match your $10K with their $10K.

Many margin lenders have a savings plan allowing you to add an amount monthly which is matched by the margin lender. So if you can save $1000pm you will be increasing the loan by the same amount to buy an additional $2K of units.

I wish I had all this available and explained to me at age 18 :(
 
Thanks for all your help guys. Makes much more sense now :)

I agree with the thoughts here though, think I'll keep my LVR a bit lower around the 50-60% level for funds. Property I don't mind the higher LVR as they are'nt calling in my loans there ;) But I do like the idea of making the extra monthly investments on top of the initial.

My current theory is to build it up for the moment so at some point in the future it can pay for at least a good portion of my IP shortfalls when I choose. At the moment I'll reinvest 100% as I don't need the dividends yet (would'nt be much on that small amount anyway :eek: )
 
Thanks for all your help guys. Makes much more sense now :)

I agree with the thoughts here though, think I'll keep my LVR a bit lower around the 50-60% level for funds. Property I don't mind the higher LVR as they are'nt calling in my loans there ;) But I do like the idea of making the extra monthly investments on top of the initial.

My current theory is to build it up for the moment so at some point in the future it can pay for at least a good portion of my IP shortfalls when I choose. At the moment I'll reinvest 100% as I don't need the dividends yet (would'nt be much on that small amount anyway :eek: )

I reinvest mine to build the capital until I need the income sometime in the future - then it is a simple matter to make that change.

This is the type of plan I would consider if I was in your boots:

http://www.leveraged.com.au/public/product/index.asp?sect=wea
 
Thanks for that Simon!

Another question you can probably answer for me - if I want to borrow for example say $20k in a margin loan from ComSec - will they look into my finances (ie. all my IP loans) before the lend me the money? Or do they just want to see the $10k in a managed fund sitting there?
 
KiethJ/Thommo with my managed fund selection,

Thank you Michael but l, like Keith, cannot accept your thanks on this matter. I know nothing of the Navra Fund. With so many who have helped it must have been easy to make such a simple error.

On a brighter note, I am genuinely impressed with your achievement. Maybe I should have paid more attention myself. LOL

Fish
 
Thanks for that Simon!

Another question you can probably answer for me - if I want to borrow for example say $20k in a margin loan from ComSec - will they look into my finances (ie. all my IP loans) before the lend me the money? Or do they just want to see the $10k in a managed fund sitting there?

Margin loans are very much NODOC loans. They lend based on the security (your funds and the share/managed funds chosen) Very easy to apply for and get. No info on jobs, income etc is needed.

Recently I got myself a new mortgage and the bank didn't want details of my margin lending arrangements and committments. In his words he said that it is probably self funding and made no difference here nor there. I suggest that not all lenders are as enlightened!

Cheers,
 
Margin loans are very much NODOC loans. They lend based on the security (your funds and the share/managed funds chosen) Very easy to apply for and get. No info on jobs, income etc is needed.

Recently I got myself a new mortgage and the bank didn't want details of my margin lending arrangements and committments. In his words he said that it is probably self funding and made no difference here nor there. I suggest that not all lenders are as enlightened!

Cheers,

That's great news Simon, thanks! :D I'm already the low doc king (through necessity), so another one will fit just nicely ;) be good if it doesn't come into my DSR next time round too, fingers crossed...
 
Navra

Seems the Managed fund a lot invest here is not on the list of approved managed funds??

But good link.

I have just brought a 1k of AFI shares which is LIC. Small start. Seems I will have to look at Managed Funds as well.

As I am trying to get property number 4 at the moment and having got them all within 12 months doesnt leave me much equity to play with. But hopefully it will come in time.

Thanks for thread. Its great to see people achieve there goals and hope I can post the same in 5 years or so. But as I move a lot, paying of PPOR is not high on the list. Most properties I have start off as PPOR and then end up being IP.

Keep up the good work all
 
Seems the Managed fund a lot invest here is not on the list of approved managed funds??

No it is a relatively small boutique fund which seems to fly under the radar of some lenders. If Navra is a fund you want then you will need to keep that in mind when selecting a lender. Alternatively, if you already have a margin loan then you can ask your lender to include it and perhaps they will consider doing so - even just for you.

My margin lender gave me a good rate discount when I asked yet refused a mate who had a bigger loan. I could only imagine it was because of how long I had my account for - or perhaps I asked nicer ....

It is always worth asking for things you want. Stringent rules are for other people - not for the likes of us. ;)
 
Steveadl

I may well have contributed to any discussion Michael had on margin lending because I have had a margin a/c for many years and I am a big believer in them.

Go to www.leveraged.com.au or www.comsec.com.au and you will will be able to read how they work. I know Leveraged Equities (LE) give you a 15% buffer before they make a margin call. You can't buy stock with this buffer but it does give give a little time to reverse a temporary setback or make an orderly retreat. I am more conservative than most here but that may well be because I'm an old, clapped out digger, so starting again is not an option, but margin loans don't scare me. With experience you will be able to virtually take the risk of a call out of the equation. At worst they are a bit of enforced discipline.

One way for anyone with considerable equity in a property (being a commercial loan this facility may only be available on an IP) can take out a mortgage backed margin loan with far greater freedom. You can read about that on the LE site.

LE is not a broker so buying and selling in the a/c must be through an expensive broker. Guess that doesn't matter if you are in buy/hold funds though. Comsec will give you cheaper brokerage. A third option is Sonray (www.sonray.com.au ) or Tricom (www.tricom.com.au). They offer both shares and CFDs (dangerous things) on the ASX and NYSE. Brokerage is pretty cheap and you get a margin on shares automatically and your available funds reflects change in price of both shares and CFDs in the account.

All of these facilities allow you to capitalise interest, ie you only need to pay the monthly interest if you run out of margin. Drawing down funds is simply a matter of an on-line instruction.

It's not rocket science but you do need to think about what you are doing.

ps. I'm on record as not recommending funds generally. I have said that learning about the markets by investing in funds is like learning to drive in the passenger seat of a cab. But many knowledgeable people use them for stability and for difficult sectors such as overseas markets. For the ASX, BHP is a proxy for a diversified resource fund without management fees. :)

Edit: being a commercial loan This could be important. It means you are outside the consumer protection laws. But if, like me, you believe consumer protection does nothing for the consumer except wrap things in red tape, it won't be of concern. :)
 
Omg, I'm so stupid so that means that I only have 25% margin lend instead of 50%! and I've prepaid interest aswell :( will have to call suncorp on monday.

I recall a thread this year doubting Navra's performance but what a great return! so envious now.
 
Michael,

What a great story, very inspirational , gets me thinking more about managed funds. 80K generated in 1 year is awesome, that´s more than I earn going to work 48 weeks a year!

Congratulations it seems anything you do you make a success of. Thanks for posting.

I share your thoughts on fellow forum members. There are some amazing people on this forum and I too value the friendships I have made here.
 
Hi all,

Michael, I would like to add to the long list of congratulations.

However you need to remember that with investing you need to stay vigilant. Just because a certain fund that you are invested in has performed extremely well in a bull market over the last 4 years, does not mean it will perform well in a bear market.

I have followed the investment journey of Michael with interest and he is always enthusiastic and positive in his investments and the markets.

However history shows that there are periods when caution is warranted, just when most are 100% bullish. Are we entering such a time now??

I do not know the answer to this, but personally I try to always remain a little conservative.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, about caveats in certain investments, I am one that has been threatened with legal action should I not desist in posting about possible outcomes for some funds.
As it has turned out for the last 4 years, investment in the Navra fund has been profitable for those investing during the bull market.

The following from Peter 14.7 is the most apt from this thread...

I say this as MW proves that actually doing something[/B is the key to success, not the planning which albeit important, only a factor.


Again congratulations Michael, you have invested well, I hope you continue to do so, and thanks for the description of your journey.

bye
 
Omg, I'm so stupid so that means that I only have 25% margin lend instead of 50%! and I've prepaid interest aswell :( will have to call suncorp on monday.

No big deal Sue. :) You can buy more shares. It just means you have a prepaid portion and a variable portion. Something, nothing.

I know I talk about BHP a lot. That's not because I am trying to push them or I believe they are the best share or anything, just safe to talk about as a proxy for the market generally and a good, safe company to own. Disclaimer: I am not an investment advisor. My dog takes no notice of me, so why should you?

So BHP is up $11 (nearly 40%) in the last year and instead of paying fees you would have received 50c ff dividend. Not so shabby.
 
just got a question on managed funds. It has been bandied around that MF are great to help with cashflow returning around 18% yearly in this case.

Edited by Les:- Cashflowplus, this is a very good question that deserves a place of its own. As such, I have moved your question here:-

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34084

And Handyandy, I've moved your posts too to that new location (and edited your input below)
 
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