You CAN loose everything in property

R

RichardC

It is odd that the subject of New Orleans has not been raised in SS but the storm will have catastrophic results locally and it's effects will be felt around the world and in some small way start the US on a new path re gasolene usage.

It seems that New Orleans will soon be New Atlantis and the city has probably been lost, ergo, all property is now worth ZERO.

Personally I'm distressed and see a humanitarian disaster unfolding. There must be over 100,000 people still in the city (30,000 holed up in the Superbowl without power, water or sanitation) and law and order is being lost.

I know it's only America but does no-one care anymore? :( :( :( After the tsunami has our compassion been used up?
 
The death toll from the tsunami was over 250,000- the toll from Katrina is still unfolding, but it is expected to be over 100 (probably well over).

The economic toll from Katrina is huge- but I suspect the US is in a far better shape to help its own victims than any of the victim nations of the tsuname.

I don't want to belittle the enormity of the tragedy in the US- but any compassion should also extend to victims of tragedies anywhere, not just those of very close neighbours (when there's thousands killed) or those who speak English.
 
have I missed the news or something... why is all property worth zero and how will US oil usage be affected? I thought it was just a severe cyclone?
 
Property is not worth zero- it will all dry out. But I suspect values will drop dramatically for some period of time in some of the worst affected areas.

Oil usage is not the problem- oil production is. There were many oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, and the extent of damage to them is not yet known.

New Orleans will never be the same. "Bourbon and Water Street" does not have the same ring.
 
Ausprop said:
have I missed the news or something... why is all property worth zero and how will US oil usage be affected? I thought it was just a severe cyclone?
Click to expand...
Yes, you have missed the news, or at least the real news.

New Orleans is a city below sea levil. It exists only because there are high levee banks to keep The Mississippi R out on one side and a lake on the other. The levees on the lake side have breached in two spots and the city is likely to flood to 3ft above sea levil (Google it yourself) or to a depth of over 30ft. Now this is not a tsunami...... the water will not recede. It appears that none of the city is above the water. Burbon St in the French Qtr is the highest land and was knee high and rising this morning. There are over 30,000 refugees in the Superdome alone and no obvious way to get them out.

As for oil, the Gulf of Mexico supplies over 30% of the USs crude oil and the Gulf coast over 40% of their refined product. Conservative estimates suggest that 10% of refinery capacity will be disabled for weeks. No-one, anywhere in the world has excess refinery capacity to make up this shortfall.

This site;

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic11957.html

will provide hours of reading.
 
Info from an energy bulletin I get:

NORTH AMERICA – PIPELINES
Hurricane Katrina rattles US energy markets
US natural gas prices hit $11.65/MMBtu on the New York
Mercantile Exchange (Nymex) yesterday as Hurricane Katrina
wreaked havoc in the southern US. The powerful hurricane
rattled the industry at a time when producers are already
struggling to meet demand.
Gas companies operating in the Gulf Coast of Mexico were
forced to shut in gas production totalling 8.3 Bcf/d, according to
the US Interior Department: “This shut-in gas production is
equivalent to 82.99% of the daily gas production in the Gulf Of
Mexico which is currently approximately 10 Bcf/d,” it said. The
Gulf of Mexico also contributes 35% of total US oil production.
Apache, an independent US energy company, said that it had
stopped producing 565 MMcf/d in the Gulf of Mexico and
onshore Louisiana. It refused to comment on the damage done
or a timetable for restoring production. “A total of 336 of
Apache’s 386 structures in the Gulf of Mexico are shut in and
the storm is now affecting onshore facilities,” Apache said.
Chevron said it had evacuated its offshore employees and
contractors from Gulf of Mexico facilities. “Due to the effects of
Hurricane Katrina our marketing organization is implementing
volume controls at all of its supply terminals in the Eastern U.S.
for motor gasoline and diesel until further notice. This will
ensure that all our customers have continued access to ratable
volumes,” Chevron said.
 
markpatric said:
I never heard about the fact the place being below sea level!, I`m intrigued why anyone would build below sea level at all.
Click to expand...
The French settled it and there was a critical battle there during the War of Independence. Naturally it wasn't below sea levil then but it is in the Mississippi delta and flooded regularly so they built levees to control the floods. As the land dried it slowly sunk into the mud and the levees were increased in height.

I am not an expert on this, just repeating what I have read this week but to my simple mind I can't see how anything could be worth salvaging after the city has been evacuated and everything underwater for weeks. It seems to me they would need to rebuild the levees to keep the toxic, putrid water in. There are human and animal remains and supermarkets full of "stuff" decaying already and it's anyones guess on chemical pollution so I can't see how they can simply pump it all into the Gulf of Mexico.

This is a watershed event which, while not having as high a death toll as the tsunami, will dwarf it in its economic consequences.

So I would not offer a cent in the dollar for New Orleans property.
 
These people may really loose most of everything. Land values would have to plummit you would think. Insurance doesn't cover flood. What if your house was blown down, then got flooded with 20 feet of water 6 hours later. Would the owner get insurance? A legal battlefield.

On the other hand, surely this situation should have been thought about. It's typical for everyone now, after the event saying perhaps the place should not have been there, below sea level, in a hurricane path. Just an example of how confident man has become, and how we think we are in control.

See ya's.
 
It's the same as asking why people live in quake risk California or anywhere in Japan, not to mention numerous other often shaken places. Then there's the bush fire risk zone, sleeping volcano areas, places that experience on-going floods, twisters, terrible blizzards, drought (Melbourne) :) , etc, etc, .....

I'm sure if you search under quake you'll find a thread about this type of question.
 
it wil be very interesting to see how this plays out i.e. whether the US ploughs the dollars into rebuilding it. New Orleans has (in my mind) always been a big part of US culture. back here in Oz we continue to build adjacent to waterways that are exposed to tsunamis and will soon be below sea level, but humanity is short sighted.
 
Are you referring to the Gold Coast, or Perth?, regarding sea levels.
I have heard this type of prediction about the gold coast for many years but it doesn`t seem to deter anyone from buying there.
Also Robina I heard was swampland before developed, wonder if this could have repercussions as far as flood is concerned.
 
Rabaul in Papua New Guinea shows the resilience of settlements after natural disasters - much of the town was buried under volcanic ash in the eruption of 1994. Today there is still a property market there, but at vastly reduced prices. There is still some industry in what's left of the town, hence a small rental market. Property insurance of any sort cannot be had, and maintenance costs are very high because of the highly acid volcanic dust that continues to fall. A new roof only lasts about 5 years.

I'm sure this isn't the end for New Orleans but it certainly won't be the same again.
 
Hi all,

What happens in New Orleans, could become a precedent for what happens around the world in the next 100-200 years, should sea levels rise as many expect.

Mankinds inability to show foresight, will probably lead to many short term solutions such as building levee banks, canals, pumping stations; instead of just moving the populace to a safer location.
The capital cost will be cheaper, but the ongoing re-building/maintenance will produce many jobs. :rolleyes:

bye
 
Bill.L said:
Hi all,

What happens in New Orleans, could become a precedent for what happens around the world in the next 100-200 years, should sea levels rise as many expect.

Mankinds inability to show foresight, will probably lead to many short term solutions such as building levee banks, canals, pumping stations; instead of just moving the populace to a safer location.
The capital cost will be cheaper, but the ongoing re-building/maintenance will produce many jobs. :rolleyes:

bye
Click to expand...

I can't see the Americans let Mother Nature get one over them .... especially when they taking a bloody nose in another war at the moment. There's too many people who will be licking their lips in anticipation of money to be made during the reconstruction and rebuilding.

But then again it could depend on who owns the land of alternative building sites..... ;)

See Change
 
Gotta agree with Geoffw here,

This is an enormous disaster which is going to cause unfair suffering to thousands of people all around the world. Socially, economically, and emotionally. But in the big scheme of things it is relatively minor by comparison to disasters taking place as we speak all around the globe.

An analogy would be to compare the outrage and worldwide condemnation of the Sept 11 incidents in the USA where almost 3000 people died, against the mere eyebrow raising of nearly 800,000 deaths in Rwanda some years ago.

Why is nobody concerned about the hundreds killed in Baghdad the other day, or the incredible suffering being experienced in Niger, Sudan at this time, or the havoc being wreaked by that idiot Mugabe.

I know why ! Its because this is a property investment forum and anything that does not affect our ability to make a profit is not worthy of discussion here.

I sincerely hope those affected in New Orleans and surrounding districts can get some semblance of normality to their lives soon. To see innocent people suffering ANYWHERE disturbs me but to see the indifference displayed by so many people in power with the ability to prevent much of it disturbs me even more.

Pedro :( :( :(
 
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