An Investment in Reduction

G'Day

I have been following this thread with much interest, as late last year, at 85 kilos on a 165cm frame, I had decided that enough was enough.

Yes, my working like has changed. From the child care centre (where I wore out nurse's duty shoes) to the shop to the mortgage broking, from 1994 at 44 years old I weighed 68 kilos, about 3 kilos above my usual adult weight due, no doubt, to three years on the local Council eating sweeties during meetings and attending official dinners, to 2005 at 85 kilos, that's a significant increase and change in body weight.

So I did a google search for weight loss clinics in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and came up with http://www.lifestyleclinic.com.au/testimonial/41

Mike and I attended a short information session in early December, and after we arrived back from England in January I weighed 87 kilos.

The next morning I went off for the blood test, and had my induction interview on Friday 3rd February, where I was weighed at 85 kilos and my personal eating plan was explained to me.

Today I have already shed 3 kilos, only 22 more to go.

Co-incidentally, just before the interview, I met a friend who I haven't seen for a while, and she told me that she had just finished the Cohen's program and had lost 25 kilos in five months, although during that time had twice travelled overseas and had not followed the program during the trips.

We so easily say 'Oh, it's just my metabolism' without really knowing what we mean by that. I just know that every extra kilo was sitting under my ribs for all the world to see, getting between me and the computer, making me feel very ungainly and most unattractive.

I am happy to post my progress, I think that weight is a disease of society. We have so much lovely food here and it is just so easy to eat it. As time goes on we start to ignore our expanding waistlines but at the 2 kilos per year I was managing to accumulate it wouldn't be long before I was 90 kilos, and shopping in the BIB clothing department.

I would be quite happy to be 65 kilos, but apparently my body mass should be somewhere between 57 and 60 kilos, so I shall be very interested to see where I end up at the completion of the program.

Actually, it's rather fun. It's called Taking Control, and if I am not prepared to take control of my own weight then I'm just avoiding the issue.

An interesting factor with this program is that of exercise. If you are already exercising, fine, but if not, then Cohen's recommend that no exercise program is starting while on the weight reduction program.

The reason for this is because the program is all about fat loss. Building muscle creates a rush of certain hormones which can be inhibiting to the body losing fat. So if I want to take up mountain climbing it will have to wait until I have shed the 25 kilos recommended in the program.

Well, Mike always did have a 'thing' for Leslie Hornsby!

Cheers

Kristine

Kristine, I will be very interested in your progress on Cohen's diet.
I believe his unique buyer advantage is controlling ghrelin, human growth hormone, and serotonin, amongst other things, via dietary and lifestyle manipulation. THough he gives little away on how he does it.

Seems most of the advice on his website falls in line with standard dietary recommendations. Though losing 2kg a week would be considered extreme by conventional standards, which recommend 1kg a week. And his advice re not exercising until weight is lost is unique.

Kristine.. said:

The reason for this is because the program is all about fat loss. Building muscle creates a rush of certain hormones which can be inhibiting to the body losing fat.

Kristine

Click to expand...

I'd always read that building muscle actually increases your metabolic rate?

Redwing

redwing said:

I'd always read that building muscle actually increases your metabolic rate?

Redwing

Click to expand...

That has always been my belief too.

As someone who has always struggled with their weight, I am interested to know how Human Growth Hormone will aid in weight loss.

Interestingly in the US of A they have HGH Clinics

Just some quick questions..

is Sureslim the same as the Lifestyle Clinics- both use Blood Typing?
SURESLIM

Is this for real..your eat according to your blood type (two people I talked to had gone on the sureslim program and both had different blood types but similar diets, calories were reduced, they ate healthy food and both lost weight, which IMHO was due to reduced calories and a better overall diet..once they hit thier desired weight simple carbs such as potatoes etc could be introduced back into the diet)

I'm interested as its all a complex issue and I'm in the process of getting back into training and eating right for me..walks have now turned into walking and jogging with some High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)thrown in

PS- Popular thread

For those of you who want to understand more about diet and exercise, I highly recommend these two sites. They have been consistently balanced and of academic standard for many years, and are written by well qualified people. Though the latter is going a little more commercial, it still offers good articles reviewing the latest science.

http://www.exrx.net/
http://www.pponline.co.uk

This page talks about hgh.
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/human-growth-hormone.html
From my perspective, I suspect weight loss diets that promote manipulation of hgh, are loading up on protein beyond recommended daily allowances. I imagine the reason they are doing the blood tests is to ensure the kidneys can tolerate the thrashing imposed by high protein loads.

I personally think to enhance hormone levels for optimal weight loss, there is more wisdom in exploiting circadian rhythms via sleep, and exercise, and regularly calming the mind and body.

Hi TFB

I have never been on a weight reduction diet before, and so I did a bit of research before contacting Cohen's.

Firstly, everyone I have ever known who has done the Weight Watchers program has had to commit themselves to weekly meetings, which cost money, time and effort.

When I had the shop, one of my customers had won an annual award for weight loss, but when I met her had gained almost all of it back again.

This seems to be a general trend. On the Weight Watchers program, all is well, once off the program, the weight creeps back on again.

I was not interested in yo-yoing. I wanted to do this once, do it right, and keep to the goal weight.

Regarding blood tests, in so far as Cohen's are concerned did you notice this page on their website:

http://www.lifestyleclinic.com.au/human_growth_hormone.htm

Regarding daily protein allowance and kidneys: From my comparisons the daily protein allowance is well within accepted range of consumption and with the 3 litres of water per day that I have been drinking my kidneys are probably somewhat surprised but 'taking a thrashing'? I'm not sure what you may mean by that but my general system feels remarkably good.

I am sitting here wearing a shirt that has always been too tight in the sleeves, even when I bought it five years ago. Today, after seven days on the Cohen's program, there is loose material in the sleeves. Cohen's discourage participants from daily weighing, but encourage weekly measuring, as fat loss is not always registered by weight but also by girth. Certainly, my upper arms (which my daughter has been fondly referring to as 'deli' arms or 'canteen' arms seem to have lost a little girth already).

Every program will have positives and negatives. This program means NO SHERRY which I really miss. The CSIRO program 'allows' some alcohol but also has high meat consumption. Cohen's at this stage has me feeling alert, comfortable, not at all hungry, and I am seeing immediate results which is highly motivating.

I can do without sherry as my personal goal is to be down to 65 kilos by my Birthday in May. I'll have a small sherry then.

Even in one week my perception of tastes has changed. After a week of black espresso coffee the milk and sugar coffee which I have drunk for twenty years has no appeal. I ate an entire grapefruit last evening with no sugar and the darn thing tasted sweet.

There are no meals to buy, all food is fresh, bought by myself (read: Mike) and weighed to the exact gram weight. Mike laughed out loud when he saw my first dinner, but after seven days the portions look just about right to me. I don't need any more than the three meals and three snacks (and the water!!) and don't forget the loosened sleeves!

There is a lot of difference between 'body building' and 'body restructuring'. My friend who lost 25 kilos looks amazing. In an email to me she wrote "I know we are different people but I just wanted to say that 65 kilos was my goal also because I hadn't been under 70 kilos for years. When I got there, the fat that was left in my body was in the wrong place so I went lower.
When I did, The best thing happened, I discovered the body I knew was me.
It was the most amazing experience. I felt young and agile and like me. I feel really good."

So as the food acts like 'medicine' and readjusts and corrects the damage I have done over the years with sloppy eating. Not just eating too much (wheat and dairy are so easy) but sometimes going whole days without food or a drink because of circumstances (eg working in the shop by myself) I am looking forward to sharing not just the technical details such as weight loss, but also how I feel. When my friend said 'I feel so different' her husband said 'I can vouch for that'. So feeling isn't just emotional, it is physiological as well. The sleeves for example.

So time in front of the internet, or time spent at a desk, or simply a busy lifestyle and will there be fries with that? can certainly affect BMI ( mine was 32 at the start of the Cohen's program, not that they measure it) but more importantly our own rose coloured glasses can allow a slow decline into a physical state which we never thought would happen to us.

Interestingly, my Cohen's consultant stressed the need for as much sleep as possible, explaining that it is during sleep that the body repairs and adjusts, so the food program, the water consumption, and the sleep and repair mode all form an integral part of the plan.

As I mentioned before, this is fun! Something for me, something which is of more importance than any trinket or present could be. And hopefully my incredibly shrinking torso will encourage people around me to at least give the program some serious thought.

Well, off to cook lunch now

Cheers

Kristine

By the way, the program is protected by copywrite and different for each person, so I can only refer to general details such as are in the recipe pages on their website.

Hi Kristine,

I am very much interested in your progress so yes please do keep us informed.

Not having heard of Cohen's before I had a look at the website - their claims seem to good to be true - average of 7-15 kg per month weight loss!

I am interested to know how much it is costing you to be on their program? Also how often do you have to see them? And how strict are they with the food eg. what if you don't like grapefruits - is there some element of choice with the food selection?

Thanks. I await your answers with interest.
Lily

Hello Lily House

While I don't want to hijack the thread from the general to the personal, I'm happy to answer any questions.

The full Cohen's program is costing me $680, which I paid upfront, but they do have monthly payment schemes.

After the induction interview, I am required to attend a subsequent personal interview and weigh in each four weeks. They are also available by email and phone if I have any questions or need any support. The contract is for nine months, so they are available to me for that time.

Apart from the blood tests, which are at any pathology clinic on their list which has agreed to do the tests at 'bulk discount rates', and vitamin supplements which can be bought from them or from any other supplier and the scales in 1 gram increments (I bought mine from them as I couldn't be bothered trying to shop around for such delicate scales) there are no other costs.

There are no groups - this is all one-on-one. Very reasonable, I thought.

All the consultants have been through the program, so are aware of the progress, positives and negatives of the weeks and months ahead of each new participant.

They also provided a comprehensive recipe book and record sheets, and I am making each meal as interesting as possible. No: 2 Son bought me two small lidded casseroles today and I enjoyed a cajun chicken salad for lunch. It's all very yummy!

Regarding the grapefruit, yes the Shopping List is comprehensive. There is a good range of meat, vegetables, fruit, drinks and condiments to choose from. It's interesting that my program includes 'kangaroo' as an option which I have never eaten. Maybe I'll give it a whirl and see if I like it!!

I am discovering food I have not generally eaten before, such as bok choy, and finding that a mushroom and asparagus omelette for breakfast is such a treat, why didn't I think of it before instead of just shovelling weet bix and milk into my mouth, with very little variation, for years on end?

If there are other questions, and to post my progress, perhaps I should start a new thread in Coffee Lounge. I'm sure there are plenty of Forum readers who also no longer fit into their flairs and wonder why?

I expect to be on the program for at least three to four months before embarking on the refeeding part of the program which seems to be the key to the success of stabilising weight, so I'll probably be an active participant for about six months as I have only 25 kilos to lose.

The nine months of the standard contract allows for participants losing 40 to 50 kilos to take it easy and to achieve their goal weight without further expense.

By the way, I sent the pictures of 'Jason' http://www.lifestyleclinic.com.au/testimonials.htm (at the bottom of the picture page) over to Mike, just a hint, mind, but he came to the information evening with me and hasn't made a decision about participating in the program yet.

Jason's Mum has also been on the program after the 40 kilo loss which Jason achieved. It seems to me that there is a myth regarding weight loss, that it's going to make a martyr of you, but yes it's only been a week but it's been a fun week and very encouraging. No sherry (as I've said before) but hey! I can cope!!

Best wishes

Kristine

It'd be great to hear about your progress Kristine


Love your posts..always informative

REDWING

Thanks Kristine for your informative post.

If there are other questions, and to post my progress, perhaps I should start a new thread in Coffee Lounge. I'm sure there are plenty of Forum readers who also no longer fit into their flairs and wonder why?

Click to expand...

Good idea. The topic has deviated a few times from thefirstbruce's initial question (sorry tfb).
Any weight loss thread does seem to create a lot of interest on this forum.

Perhaps you could give us weekly updates on your progress Kristine? As a long standing forum member with integrity, it would be great to see a real life example. I have to admit I am sceptical - to have such quick weight loss with no hunger...., but sincerely I would love to see you succeed.

Thanks for your openess and honestly. I look forward to tracking your progress.

And GOOD LUCK!

Lily

Kristine requested that her posts and those relating to it be split off into another thread so as not to deviate from Bruce's original topic. This thread is the result of that action.

I look forward to reading all about your progress Kristine.......and you know we expect photos as well.

Ruby

Kristine, I am seriously interested in how you go on this program too, and would appreciate regular updates. I am not out to criticize the diet and will hold my tongue.

I am especially interested to see the pattern of weight loss you experience on the diet. Many diets lead to quick weight loss in the first few weeks, but then it slows down. And the fact that you are doing minimal or no exercise is of interest to me.




For anyone interested, this is a reply to an email from my local Dr Cohen consultant regarding the diet.

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for your email and interest in Cohen's Lifestyle Clinic. I can give you a basic idea of what happens. You get a blood test done and that tests your biochemistry. These results go off to Dr Cohen and he produces a personal program for you based on these results. So in that way the program is completely individual. The eating plan he develops for you is designed to correct the imbalance of hormones in your body, and to stimulate the pituitary gland to produce more Human Growth Hormone. Basically HGH is responsible for turning fat into energy and is als great for anti-ageing and a number of other beneficial things. Dr Cohen has isolated 3 hormones involved in obesity and overweight people: Human Growth Hormone, Insulin, and Serotonin.

The program that he develops for you is a balanced eating plan, so it includes Protein, Carbs, Fruits and Vegetables - there are no pills, tonics, shakes or anything like that - it is regular food. Whilst it is a low carbohydrate intake - it is a balanced program. There is no excessive protein (or anything, for that matter). There are also no "free" foods - all food must be weighed, raw weights.

The cost of the program is $680.00. This gives you your personalised eating program that Dr Cohen does for you from the initial blood test results, all follow-up visits, and includes your refeed program at the end when you've reached your goal weight. The only additional cost is the cost of the blood tests which pathology charge you when you have them done. They will charge you $22.00 for the initial one, and $11.00 for the follow-up ones (up to 4, depending on how much weight you need to lose).

There are some private health funds that do recognise us as a proven, claimable program (ie MBF and Medibank Private and a couple of others), however you would need to contact them because it would depend on what cover you have as to what form of rebate you would receive.

G'Day Bruce

Well, I am not a sloth, I am active throughout the day, even if I do have a 'desk' job.

By exercise they mean taking on an exercise program, they don't mean don't walk to the bus or walk the dog or whatever. Just not to rush out and start something as well as the program.

Sure, I intend to post weekly progress reports. Anything closer than weekly would be too variable. I, too, am very interested in the process of this program and am keeping a log of eating, hunger, fatigue etc. So far so good, but I have learned that a cooked breakfast is very important. I can't sustain the cold type of breakfast, never could, so it is definitely one meal where I have to take the time to do it right.

Mmmm - Bruce, are you tempted to explore the program a little further for yourself, hmmmm? Well, why not. So far I have had a number of people ask me if I have any leaflets for the clinic. Everyone is intrigued at my friend's significant loss. I think once the conversation is about 20 kilos and not just a kilo or two, the conversation becomes sincere. Everyone moans about their weight, but very few decide to really commit to a program (bit like investing, really!). So I'm happy to be cast in the role of the guinea pig.

We can only do anything in life when we are ready to do it - for ourselves.

Just as an aside, we weren't asked whether we were in a health fund. We're not, but I might just see if my accountant thinks it could class a a 'medical expense' for tax bracketing purposes.

Cheers

Kristine

Dear Kristine

I sincerely wish you all the best with this program.

Both my sister and a good friend have been on the Cohen's Diet with both losing weight.

The only trap that I observed watching them both on these diets is that both were really strict on the diet for probably 2 months - with much sacrifice. Not a hell of a lot to eat, with no alchohol, no dinners out. Both lost quite a bit of weight with my sister losing 6 kilos (over xmas) starting off at 80kg and my friend losing about 18 kilos over 3 months starting off at about 90kg

Both fell of the wagon at about the 2 month mark because the diet was quite restrictive to there lifestyle. I see Cohen's as a quick result program that might motivate you to keep going to goal. If you stick to 5-6 months on the program theoretically you should get down to your goal weight. To lose that amount of weight through normal diet and exercise would take 1-2 years of exercise increase and calorie reduction. Although I am skeptical about a program that doesnt include exercise (as you say whatever you did before you start the program you have to continue only at that level), I hope that you reach your goal weight and begin to feel more fit and healthy longer term.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

Best Wishes

Corsa

Hi Again Kristine..

I'd be interested if you could post a day or two's food intake as well so we can get a feel for the program.

I expect you to do well as any Somersofterian would (most investors are the type of people that get stuck into something once they take it on board IMHO)

Look forward to hearing of your progress

All the best

REDWING

Hi Kristine,

Yes I am interested in the diet, but more from an open minded scientific perspective. I have my thoughts on how Dr Cohen has put this diet together, and would be interested to see if I am right about it.

THough I am aiming to lose around 8cm off my waist currently. I am doing a dietician prescribed diet which would lead me to lose around .75 kg a week. But I am off to a slow start, as I have to basically cut out alcohol, and wine is/was my second favourite vice If I can't meet my goal weight on target, I'll take a leaf out of your book.

In the last month or so, I've weaned myself (no pun inteneded) off milk. Gone from drinking two tall glasses of iced coffee a day (on weekdays, more on weekends) with also the occasional cappuccino to having one coffee (flat white or cappuccino) a week.

I feel that I've done the 'hard yards' with milk - I tell you, the first few weeks were (for me) akin to quitting smoking - I really was THAT addicted to milk. I mean psychologically of course. Last night I made the decision that cheese was next.

Fat people look disgusting. If that sounds shallow to some people, bad luck. Our health and wellbeing both physically and mentally depends so much on what we put into our bodies. If you don't respect yourself enough to ensure you eat well and look after yourself, why should I respect you?

I've also just recently decided to become a vegetarian again. Removing meat from my diet in the past I've always noticed improvements in the way I feel and get around. More energy, more 'awake', I feel like my body is having to work a lot less simply attempting to digest the meat I consumed even though the human body is not designed for it.

Kristine, I also drink quite a lot of water daily. Only I drink at least six litres, rather than only three. I have a 1.5 litre bottle on my desk at work wihich I sip from throughout the day and easily go through two of those. At home I drink another two, sometimes more in the evening.

To me, there is no substitute for fresh, raw fruit and vege. Kristine, just curious, how much of the food you eat or are recommended to eat is cooked? No skepticism or anything, just wondering.

Lastly, good luck! I wish you all the best on your journey and have no doubts you will do really well. Like you said, being overweight is a disease. Know that there is someone all the way up here in Brissy who is quietly rooting for you from the sidelines!

Mark

Mark Laszczuk said:

Fat people look disgusting. If that sounds shallow to some people, bad luck. Our health and wellbeing both physically and mentally depends so much on what we put into our bodies. If you don't respect yourself enough to ensure you eat well and look after yourself, why should I respect you?

Mark

Click to expand...

Hmmm, trying to be as positive as possible, Mark I usually have an extreme amount of respect for your posts, but I am surprised to read you post such a thing!

Healthy mind & body does not necessarily translate into the perfect body!

People have enough issues with body image etc without having to read such views. Having had to visit family members in hospital recently and having to pass through the "Anorexia" wards it is frightful the lengths that some people will go to to not gain weight. I have also watched 2 people experience Anorexia and Bullemia issues for 15+ years and it is not pretty.

I am 100% supportive of healthy eating, diet and lifestyle choices. I too believe that being obsese is very unhealthy and can be life threatening, but I wouldnt say disgusting! Some people really cant help being so big due to health issues etc.

Anyway, enough of a rant - i to am very supportive of Kristine and her endevours but whether she loses weight or not she will still be a fantastic beautiful person either way.

Very disappointed

Corsa

MichaelWhyte said:

Mark,

Agree completely. Cheers,
Michael.

Click to expand...

Hopefully I am not a minority on this one