Mona Vale Townhouse Development - Update
- Thread starter MichaelW
- Start date
Update: First Development Unit meeting for my DA
Hi guys,
Just got back from Council where I attended the Development Unit meeting to consider my DA. The assessing officer recommended an approval with conditions, woohoo! But as anticipated the DU raised some further issues and requested these be addressed and deferred their decision until this happened. No biggie, the overriding theme was that it would get through the DU but we needed to do more to make it conform. The key issues raised were:
1. Setback from Pittwater Rd. This averaged 6.5m despite the control requiring 10.0m. They accepted 10.0m was unnachievable, but thought we could do more than an average of 6.5m. Some points were even inside 5.0m which is half the control so we need to eliminate these. And they were only concerned with the second storey, so first floor is no changes. I've already reviewed the plans post-meeting with my architect and we reckon we can squeeze that building line in along that boundary without losing too much internal space or beds.
2. Over-shadowing of the adjoining property. This was a very minor non-compliance for half an hour (11:30am-12:00noon) at ground level in one units courtyard. We got sunlight to 500mm off the ground for that period but not over the ground itself. We'll drop the eaves slightly again and squeeze a bit more light onto that one units dirt. That is their only complaint and we can accommodate it. They are also the only adjoining property so their complaint carries some weight. They support the application otherwise.
3. The fence height and setback. We need to drop it to 1.8m from the current fence height of 2.1m. Despite our stepping it back in points and "improving" the fencing outcome in our current proposal, they also want us to drop the height. We'll do this to get across the line.
4. Privacy screen on lift access to top unit. They don't want that little walkway to overlook the adjoining properties courtyards. So we'll add a privacy screen.
That's it. We modify the plans, resubmit and go back to the DU for hopefully an approval. But that's not ALL of it. We've also been called to a council meeting now too. It seems our objector is now lobbying councilors. So, to get it through will look something like this:
I. Preliminary meeting with senior development unit manager. Apply his requirements to our plans before initial submission.
II. Initial submission and notification.
III. Address 52 pages of complaints from known pest. Results in some modifications, additional over-shadowing reports, additional accessibility and traffic reports, basically additional dollars and time.
IV. Assessing officer gives it the nod and sends it up the line.
V. First DU meeting. They look at it and go: we want more mods. So now we have to go away and apply all these.
VI. Hopefully it now goes like this: Follow up DU meeting approves it and sends it up the line again.
VII. Council meeting where we plead our case and get final approval.
VIII. Maybe even then a trip to the Land and Environment Court if need be. We're contemplating lodging the appeal now and putting the "on appeal" with the plans to go to the meeting of council. Might be the shake they need to know this is going ahead with or without their OK. Better for them to avoid the LEC cost. But the flipside is it might just aggrevate them and make them less likely to approve it at their meeting.
Either way, we're now back to the drawing board and a few months more before we can get plans through council (not helped by the assessor going on leave again from next Wednesday for two more weeks, I wish I took as much leave as that lady does). I am so glad I've engaged an awesome architect. I'd be sunk without them on my team. I'm also glad that the tennant wants to extend her contract back on market rates now too until Jan/Feb 2008. We'll need that time.
Wish me luck!
Cheers,
Michael.
PS Oh Yeah, we also got stung with $35K in section 94 contributions too. Bugga...
Hi guys,
Just got back from Council where I attended the Development Unit meeting to consider my DA. The assessing officer recommended an approval with conditions, woohoo! But as anticipated the DU raised some further issues and requested these be addressed and deferred their decision until this happened. No biggie, the overriding theme was that it would get through the DU but we needed to do more to make it conform. The key issues raised were:
1. Setback from Pittwater Rd. This averaged 6.5m despite the control requiring 10.0m. They accepted 10.0m was unnachievable, but thought we could do more than an average of 6.5m. Some points were even inside 5.0m which is half the control so we need to eliminate these. And they were only concerned with the second storey, so first floor is no changes. I've already reviewed the plans post-meeting with my architect and we reckon we can squeeze that building line in along that boundary without losing too much internal space or beds.
2. Over-shadowing of the adjoining property. This was a very minor non-compliance for half an hour (11:30am-12:00noon) at ground level in one units courtyard. We got sunlight to 500mm off the ground for that period but not over the ground itself. We'll drop the eaves slightly again and squeeze a bit more light onto that one units dirt. That is their only complaint and we can accommodate it. They are also the only adjoining property so their complaint carries some weight. They support the application otherwise.
3. The fence height and setback. We need to drop it to 1.8m from the current fence height of 2.1m. Despite our stepping it back in points and "improving" the fencing outcome in our current proposal, they also want us to drop the height. We'll do this to get across the line.
4. Privacy screen on lift access to top unit. They don't want that little walkway to overlook the adjoining properties courtyards. So we'll add a privacy screen.
That's it. We modify the plans, resubmit and go back to the DU for hopefully an approval. But that's not ALL of it. We've also been called to a council meeting now too. It seems our objector is now lobbying councilors. So, to get it through will look something like this:
I. Preliminary meeting with senior development unit manager. Apply his requirements to our plans before initial submission.
II. Initial submission and notification.
III. Address 52 pages of complaints from known pest. Results in some modifications, additional over-shadowing reports, additional accessibility and traffic reports, basically additional dollars and time.
IV. Assessing officer gives it the nod and sends it up the line.
V. First DU meeting. They look at it and go: we want more mods. So now we have to go away and apply all these.
VI. Hopefully it now goes like this: Follow up DU meeting approves it and sends it up the line again.
VII. Council meeting where we plead our case and get final approval.
VIII. Maybe even then a trip to the Land and Environment Court if need be. We're contemplating lodging the appeal now and putting the "on appeal" with the plans to go to the meeting of council. Might be the shake they need to know this is going ahead with or without their OK. Better for them to avoid the LEC cost. But the flipside is it might just aggrevate them and make them less likely to approve it at their meeting.
Either way, we're now back to the drawing board and a few months more before we can get plans through council (not helped by the assessor going on leave again from next Wednesday for two more weeks, I wish I took as much leave as that lady does). I am so glad I've engaged an awesome architect. I'd be sunk without them on my team. I'm also glad that the tennant wants to extend her contract back on market rates now too until Jan/Feb 2008. We'll need that time.
Wish me luck!
Cheers,
Michael.
PS Oh Yeah, we also got stung with $35K in section 94 contributions too. Bugga...
great result michael - inching closer.
we've currently struck a problem with overshadowing with one of our rebuilds, so the architect and i are frantically tweaking the plans every which way to squeeze a bit more sunlight out for the neighbours - have resolved one adjoining shadow problem - now working on the other.
tricky to do to many changes on a block only 8m wide!
but the shadowing a a great lesson to learn - and i now look at the orientation of the block as part of my pre-purchase assessment. shadows falling on the road are ripe for a woohoo!
keep us posted.
we've currently struck a problem with overshadowing with one of our rebuilds, so the architect and i are frantically tweaking the plans every which way to squeeze a bit more sunlight out for the neighbours - have resolved one adjoining shadow problem - now working on the other.
tricky to do to many changes on a block only 8m wide!
but the shadowing a a great lesson to learn - and i now look at the orientation of the block as part of my pre-purchase assessment. shadows falling on the road are ripe for a woohoo!
keep us posted.
Hi Michael,
seems things are progressing, albeit slowly.
You MUST start talking to the councillors yourself NOW. I think I did mention it in a previous post, but it won't hurt you to do your own lobbying.
Find out:
do the councillors vote along party lines? If so, find out who controls them (there is always a puppeteer somewhere!)
which party has the majority
are there any independants you need to get into the ear of; and
which councillors are just dead against development...they're the ones you don't go near!
good luck
seems things are progressing, albeit slowly.
You MUST start talking to the councillors yourself NOW. I think I did mention it in a previous post, but it won't hurt you to do your own lobbying.
Find out:
do the councillors vote along party lines? If so, find out who controls them (there is always a puppeteer somewhere!)
which party has the majority
are there any independants you need to get into the ear of; and
which councillors are just dead against development...they're the ones you don't go near!
good luck
Thanks Joanna,
Yes, I fully intend to lobby all of the councilors except the two identified by the architect as dead against development and to steer clear of.
I hadn't even thought of the voting along party lines thing or independents, or anything to do with affiliation. I just figured I'd lobby all of them individually and put my case to them.
The architect said that some would just say "I'll take the advice of my planning department" which is actually a good thing as the DU is likely to recommend the development when we apply our mods.
I'll look into the affiliation of councilors a bit more and start down the lobby route soon. In fact, it will be Kay doing the lobbying as she has the time and she'll probably end up taking Aden along with her given she has him 6 days of the week.
Cheers,
Michael.
Yes, I fully intend to lobby all of the councilors except the two identified by the architect as dead against development and to steer clear of.
I hadn't even thought of the voting along party lines thing or independents, or anything to do with affiliation. I just figured I'd lobby all of them individually and put my case to them.
The architect said that some would just say "I'll take the advice of my planning department" which is actually a good thing as the DU is likely to recommend the development when we apply our mods.
I'll look into the affiliation of councilors a bit more and start down the lobby route soon. In fact, it will be Kay doing the lobbying as she has the time and she'll probably end up taking Aden along with her given she has him 6 days of the week.
Cheers,
Michael.
It is interesting. When I went through my DA ordeal I assumed that the councillors voted along party lines, but it turned out that in my area they didn't...so there I was dealing with a council that was a majority of a particular party but there was one faction of that particular party that would "seek direction" from higher above (naturally we sought that same "higher above" for assistance), and another faction of that same party that would do their own thing....but it only ever applied to DA's. On every other matter they had to vote along party lines.
Wow, what a great thread !!! I have just come back to the forum after an long abscence and it is very interesting to read about a development from the "other side"....
I'm a senior Council planner with about 14 years experience and have never received a 50 page objection to anything !!!! Including large building DA's in the Sydney CBD)
We attach all objections to our reports to Council (the Councillors get them as confidential copies) and this objection would be as long or longer than my report.
I'd be interested to know the substance of the objection as generally, everything that can be raised has already been covered by the Land and Environment Court in their "Planning Principles" (check out the LEC website for more info).
I often quote previous LEC cases and the planning priciples when rebutting obejctions in my reports and it's good fun to watch the objectors crumble in the face of a well-written report when they address Council on the night.
I suppose I'm unusual in that I'm pro good development and good design and generally find ways to approve something rather than follow the stereotypical planner attitude of "there must be something wrong here"...I suppose my training as an architect and a lawyer rather than a planner would give me a different outlook.
Please feel free to ask me any questions Michael, I'll try and give you an insight into how planners would view something if this would be helpful.
Has Council given you a date when they are going to put your DA up to a meeting for consideration?, I try to always give my applicants a meeting date once I start my assessment so that they can have some timing certainty.
Please let me know how it goes,
Sav.
I'm a senior Council planner with about 14 years experience and have never received a 50 page objection to anything !!!! Including large building DA's in the Sydney CBD)
We attach all objections to our reports to Council (the Councillors get them as confidential copies) and this objection would be as long or longer than my report.
I'd be interested to know the substance of the objection as generally, everything that can be raised has already been covered by the Land and Environment Court in their "Planning Principles" (check out the LEC website for more info).
I often quote previous LEC cases and the planning priciples when rebutting obejctions in my reports and it's good fun to watch the objectors crumble in the face of a well-written report when they address Council on the night.
I suppose I'm unusual in that I'm pro good development and good design and generally find ways to approve something rather than follow the stereotypical planner attitude of "there must be something wrong here"...I suppose my training as an architect and a lawyer rather than a planner would give me a different outlook.
Please feel free to ask me any questions Michael, I'll try and give you an insight into how planners would view something if this would be helpful.
Has Council given you a date when they are going to put your DA up to a meeting for consideration?, I try to always give my applicants a meeting date once I start my assessment so that they can have some timing certainty.
Please let me know how it goes,
Sav.
Hi Savanna,
And welcome to the thread! I promised the forum over a year ago now to keep them abreast of everything to do with my development. My intent is to leave a small legacy for any would-be developers to read and learn a bit about the process.
I can't post the full objection here as it's 1.5Mb, but he basically analysed the application under every conceivable applicable control. Or in other words, he tried to do the development officer's job for her but with a negative slant on every aspect. Thankfully a lot of his stuff was misplaced and his presentation to the DU yesterday was similarly obtuse.
The DU basically agreed that this was a MUH site and that our proposal was fundamentally the optimum outcome for the site. They are just working with us now to limit the non-compliances. We can't fully comply due to the site limitations. It is a corner site with a 10m setback off Pittwater Rd and a 5m Setback off Darley St. This would leave a building envelope of around 50m2. You might get a double garage on there but that's it. As such, we had a preliminary meeting with the senior planner in the DU who agreed we could breach the setback requirements but this would mean we'd need to comply with everything else. We have done this, but the DU wants us to be "more" compliant with setbacks and shrink our envelope a bit further.
What's your view on the "under appeal" approach when going to the council meeting. i.e. Being explicit about our intent to appeal to the LEC if the council knocks us back given the DU has already approved it. Would that get councillors off side and result in a trip to the LEC, or would it be the catalyst they need to get them to see sense?
Its a frustrating process and Pittwater council is one of those councils that is quite slow in its whole development application processing timeframe. And the level of detail required and the number of supporting reports just blew my mind.
Cheers,
Michael.
And welcome to the thread! I promised the forum over a year ago now to keep them abreast of everything to do with my development. My intent is to leave a small legacy for any would-be developers to read and learn a bit about the process.
I can't post the full objection here as it's 1.5Mb, but he basically analysed the application under every conceivable applicable control. Or in other words, he tried to do the development officer's job for her but with a negative slant on every aspect. Thankfully a lot of his stuff was misplaced and his presentation to the DU yesterday was similarly obtuse.
The DU basically agreed that this was a MUH site and that our proposal was fundamentally the optimum outcome for the site. They are just working with us now to limit the non-compliances. We can't fully comply due to the site limitations. It is a corner site with a 10m setback off Pittwater Rd and a 5m Setback off Darley St. This would leave a building envelope of around 50m2. You might get a double garage on there but that's it. As such, we had a preliminary meeting with the senior planner in the DU who agreed we could breach the setback requirements but this would mean we'd need to comply with everything else. We have done this, but the DU wants us to be "more" compliant with setbacks and shrink our envelope a bit further.
What's your view on the "under appeal" approach when going to the council meeting. i.e. Being explicit about our intent to appeal to the LEC if the council knocks us back given the DU has already approved it. Would that get councillors off side and result in a trip to the LEC, or would it be the catalyst they need to get them to see sense?
Its a frustrating process and Pittwater council is one of those councils that is quite slow in its whole development application processing timeframe. And the level of detail required and the number of supporting reports just blew my mind.
Cheers,
Michael.
i'm fascinated by this "council lobbying" aspect. i can understand having to do so when your proposal is pushing the boundaries ('cuse the pun), but would it be necessary if your proposal is compliant in every manner?
i ask this because our next development (currently with the architect - 4 townhouses) will easily comply with everything - setbacks, parking, shadowing, courtyards sizes etc.
so, is the council issues only if your doing something out of the ordinary - or is it expected in every case? if so, i'd better do some brushing up on local legislation ...
i ask this because our next development (currently with the architect - 4 townhouses) will easily comply with everything - setbacks, parking, shadowing, courtyards sizes etc.
so, is the council issues only if your doing something out of the ordinary - or is it expected in every case? if so, i'd better do some brushing up on local legislation ...
Hi Lizzie,
My architect said that in all likelihood my resident pest rang one or two of his go-to councillors who like to object any development and told them about my one. They, in turn, have called it up to a meeting of council as is their right.
As such, he has created yet one more hurdle for me to jump through. And he was positively buzzing with excitement following the DU meeting. Kay followed him out (she had witnessed the whole thing quietly from the back) and said he met an old mate of his and was gloating about throwing in red herrings and catching the architect off gaurd. He is a serial pest and the DU at least thankfully recognise this to a degree. Nonetheless, he has slowed my DA down signficantly and added additional conditions and cost to the ultimate approval.
I'd suggest that in your situation you're likely to just get through on the DU approval and not require to present to council. I'm not so fortunate despite mine being a tiny 3 unit development. Good thing I've got that "nothing can stop me" attitude hey!
Cheers,
Michael.
Hi again guys,
I want to start by thanking Somersoftian "Land" for the PM and follow up phone call we just had. Based on his insight and a burgeoning concern around ongoing conditions for this DA, I've decided to up the ante a bit and go the aggressive approach. I'm going to lodge an appeal with the LEC under deemed refusal given the 40 days has well and truly lapsed. In parallel my architect is going to go back to council with this info on Tuesday and see if they'll let it through with lesser conditions and a quick approval to avoid having to get the LEC involved.
The LEC process will probably play out in 6 weeks tops and that is considerably less than the council route which now requires re-notification, a follow up DU meeting and then a council meeting.
Additionally, I can go to the LEC with the plans as approved by the assessing officer and not have to give away upstairs floorspace to appease the DU. In mediation I might have to give up something, but given the assessing officer approved it as is, it shouldn't be as much as the DU requested.
Tuesday's call to council by my architect is now my next step. Over the weekend we'll prepare the lodgement documentation ready to submit to the LEC immediately my architect gets back to me on the outcome of that Tuesday call.
Wish me luck.
Ciao, and have a great long weekend everyone,
Michael.
I want to start by thanking Somersoftian "Land" for the PM and follow up phone call we just had. Based on his insight and a burgeoning concern around ongoing conditions for this DA, I've decided to up the ante a bit and go the aggressive approach. I'm going to lodge an appeal with the LEC under deemed refusal given the 40 days has well and truly lapsed. In parallel my architect is going to go back to council with this info on Tuesday and see if they'll let it through with lesser conditions and a quick approval to avoid having to get the LEC involved.
The LEC process will probably play out in 6 weeks tops and that is considerably less than the council route which now requires re-notification, a follow up DU meeting and then a council meeting.
Additionally, I can go to the LEC with the plans as approved by the assessing officer and not have to give away upstairs floorspace to appease the DU. In mediation I might have to give up something, but given the assessing officer approved it as is, it shouldn't be as much as the DU requested.
Tuesday's call to council by my architect is now my next step. Over the weekend we'll prepare the lodgement documentation ready to submit to the LEC immediately my architect gets back to me on the outcome of that Tuesday call.
Wish me luck.
Ciao, and have a great long weekend everyone,
Michael.
essentially Lizzie, there's nothing wrong with having all your ducks lined up. My dad, a few years ago now, submitted plans for 4 townhouses that complied in every concievable way the planning rules current at the time. Yet, it took the councillors over 9 months to approve. Why? Simply because they didn't want to deal with it; they simply deferred it from meeting to meeting.
This went on till one day dad got jack of it all and "ran into" one of the councillors and started having a whinge. Well, what do you know? Next meeting it was approved!
Councils are strange things, and local politics is a strange thing also.
Another update, two months on
Hi Guys,
We went back to council today for another meeting with the Development Unit (DU) having applied a suite of changes as requested at the previous DU. Well, it wasn't enough. They've now accepted the setback that we've applied but are getting hung up on the solar access for the adjoining property. We have a minor non-compliance from 11:30am to Midday at the Winter Solstace on one of the four adjoining properties to 50cm above ground level. Yep, its that minor. Half an hour at 50cm above ground.
Anyway, we are now agreeing to some even more serious changes to get this one through. We've decided to take the lift well to the 1st floor unit out all together and just bring it up to ground level from the basement. We've decided to make the townhouse the second of the accessible units as it already has a bed and bathroom on the ground floor. So, now, the top unit will have a stair access from ground level and no lift so won't count in our accessible quota of two.
The other changes are minor around moving external decks from Darley Street around to Pittwater Road, and fiddling with the fence a bit so its got some semi-transparent sections to further limit bulk and scale.
Kay is in at the Land and Environment Court (LEC) tomorrow for a callover to agree the date with a commissioner. We're going to state that we intend to gain compliance through council but want to keep the current date for the 5th December with the LEC so we can keep the pressure on council. Our architect reckons if we apply these last few changes then the DU will finally give us the nod and we can go to council on the 3rd December for their OK. If they knock it back then the LEC on the 5th should get us through.
I was concerned that taking the lift out to the 1st floor unit would significantly reduce my gross realisation on that one, but my architect disagrees. He said that all of the competition at $800K in the street doesn't provide a lift to the 1st floor units and he's right. He also argued that taking it out, and the platform that served it on the 1st floor would probably knock $50K off our build cost. If I pass that $50K on as a discount on that top floor unit then my gross margin remains unchanged and in fact my % margin improves on a lower build cost.
So that's the plan. One more concession on our part and we should be there. But rest assured that this has been a very painful process! For any would be developers out there, you better be prepared for a serious bit of work and not expect it all to just fall in place for you. Its tough going, and this is just the beginning. My architect even reckons I'll need to take a restraining order out against the chronic pest who is pushing hard against this development. On previous sites, he's been out there with tape measures ensuring numerical compliance along the way. Get a life!
My architect reminded me to keep my eye on the prize, which is an approval for three units on this site. Any small setbacks that will achieve this outcome are acceptable so long as we get three. And so far, we've only made minor concessions. If we were to dig in our feet and roll the dice with the LEC then we might get a definitive knock back and have to rethink the site altogether around a duplex development which just wouldn't stack up by the numbers.
Gonna run this one all the way and keep you all appraised as I do so. Put December 3rd in your diaries for the next MAJOR update. And wish me luck!
Cheers,
Michael.
Hi Guys,
We went back to council today for another meeting with the Development Unit (DU) having applied a suite of changes as requested at the previous DU. Well, it wasn't enough. They've now accepted the setback that we've applied but are getting hung up on the solar access for the adjoining property. We have a minor non-compliance from 11:30am to Midday at the Winter Solstace on one of the four adjoining properties to 50cm above ground level. Yep, its that minor. Half an hour at 50cm above ground.
Anyway, we are now agreeing to some even more serious changes to get this one through. We've decided to take the lift well to the 1st floor unit out all together and just bring it up to ground level from the basement. We've decided to make the townhouse the second of the accessible units as it already has a bed and bathroom on the ground floor. So, now, the top unit will have a stair access from ground level and no lift so won't count in our accessible quota of two.
The other changes are minor around moving external decks from Darley Street around to Pittwater Road, and fiddling with the fence a bit so its got some semi-transparent sections to further limit bulk and scale.
Kay is in at the Land and Environment Court (LEC) tomorrow for a callover to agree the date with a commissioner. We're going to state that we intend to gain compliance through council but want to keep the current date for the 5th December with the LEC so we can keep the pressure on council. Our architect reckons if we apply these last few changes then the DU will finally give us the nod and we can go to council on the 3rd December for their OK. If they knock it back then the LEC on the 5th should get us through.
I was concerned that taking the lift out to the 1st floor unit would significantly reduce my gross realisation on that one, but my architect disagrees. He said that all of the competition at $800K in the street doesn't provide a lift to the 1st floor units and he's right. He also argued that taking it out, and the platform that served it on the 1st floor would probably knock $50K off our build cost. If I pass that $50K on as a discount on that top floor unit then my gross margin remains unchanged and in fact my % margin improves on a lower build cost.
So that's the plan. One more concession on our part and we should be there. But rest assured that this has been a very painful process! For any would be developers out there, you better be prepared for a serious bit of work and not expect it all to just fall in place for you. Its tough going, and this is just the beginning. My architect even reckons I'll need to take a restraining order out against the chronic pest who is pushing hard against this development. On previous sites, he's been out there with tape measures ensuring numerical compliance along the way. Get a life!
My architect reminded me to keep my eye on the prize, which is an approval for three units on this site. Any small setbacks that will achieve this outcome are acceptable so long as we get three. And so far, we've only made minor concessions. If we were to dig in our feet and roll the dice with the LEC then we might get a definitive knock back and have to rethink the site altogether around a duplex development which just wouldn't stack up by the numbers.
Gonna run this one all the way and keep you all appraised as I do so. Put December 3rd in your diaries for the next MAJOR update. And wish me luck!
Cheers,
Michael.
Congrats!
Well done Michael, I think you are project managing the situation very well. Sounds like you're very close now and it's great to have the Court date as a backup, which I'm sure will influence the Council decision.
I think it's incredibly unprofessional to be drip-fed issues with your proposal, but the DU has a habit of doing that, so it's not personal. Nonetheless, it's great that you've managed to work through and hopefully reach the end goal by Christmas.
Good luck and I'll be watching with interest.
By the way, let us know which commissioner you get - it can make a significant difference!
Well done Michael, I think you are project managing the situation very well. Sounds like you're very close now and it's great to have the Court date as a backup, which I'm sure will influence the Council decision.
I think it's incredibly unprofessional to be drip-fed issues with your proposal, but the DU has a habit of doing that, so it's not personal. Nonetheless, it's great that you've managed to work through and hopefully reach the end goal by Christmas.
Good luck and I'll be watching with interest.
By the way, let us know which commissioner you get - it can make a significant difference!
Hi guys,
Brief update. Plans have been modified again and resubmitted to council. We've taken the lift access out to the top floor unit and replaced with stairs only. The lift remains from the basement to the ground floor. In this way the townhouse and ground floor unit now count as our accessibile units and the top floor unit is not. Should get another shot at the DU sometime in the next week or two. We've also moved our meeting with a commissioner out to the 18th December so we get one shot at council before the commissioner has to step in.
On another note, it seems the market in Mona Vale has continued to strengthen for the sort of thing I'm developing. The attached two adverts are out of this weeks Manly Daily and show the sort of thing I'm doing. 72 Park Street at $1.25M is a bit of a higher level spec than I'm looking at doing, but 68 Park Street at $940K is pretty much spot on what I'm developing my three to be. In fact, mine is probably going to be a higher spec than that development.
Even working on a gross realisation of $940K each, I look like realising a $1M margin now. Rough numbers revisited are:
$1M build
$700K site
$100K professional fees
Total Cost $1.8M
Gross Realisation $2.8M (3 x $940K)
Anyway, its all irrelevant until I get my DA approved and my plans quoted for construction. The trick then will be to keep that build quote to under $1M and still deliver the spec I want. As always, I'll keep you posted.
Cheers,
Michael.
Brief update. Plans have been modified again and resubmitted to council. We've taken the lift access out to the top floor unit and replaced with stairs only. The lift remains from the basement to the ground floor. In this way the townhouse and ground floor unit now count as our accessibile units and the top floor unit is not. Should get another shot at the DU sometime in the next week or two. We've also moved our meeting with a commissioner out to the 18th December so we get one shot at council before the commissioner has to step in.
On another note, it seems the market in Mona Vale has continued to strengthen for the sort of thing I'm developing. The attached two adverts are out of this weeks Manly Daily and show the sort of thing I'm doing. 72 Park Street at $1.25M is a bit of a higher level spec than I'm looking at doing, but 68 Park Street at $940K is pretty much spot on what I'm developing my three to be. In fact, mine is probably going to be a higher spec than that development.
Even working on a gross realisation of $940K each, I look like realising a $1M margin now. Rough numbers revisited are:
$1M build
$700K site
$100K professional fees
Total Cost $1.8M
Gross Realisation $2.8M (3 x $940K)
Anyway, its all irrelevant until I get my DA approved and my plans quoted for construction. The trick then will be to keep that build quote to under $1M and still deliver the spec I want. As always, I'll keep you posted.
Cheers,
Michael.
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Hi Michael
Awesome figures lets hope they hold out for you, still I think you can afford a few unexpected costs along the way with numbers stacking up as well as that. Hopefully by the time it is built CG will have done some more good work for you anyway!
What is your projected time frame at this point?
Sparky
Awesome figures lets hope they hold out for you, still I think you can afford a few unexpected costs along the way with numbers stacking up as well as that. Hopefully by the time it is built CG will have done some more good work for you anyway!
What is your projected time frame at this point?
Sparky
Hi Michael,
Have you got holding cost in the costing, eg. Capitalised interest cost over building period?
Thanks
Hi Sparky,
I've allowed a year for the build, and it will probably take me a few months yet to get to the starting line. So mid-2009 is looking like the current realistic timeframe to completion.
Kenster, the interest is only $50K odd and is wrapped into my professional fees just to keep the numbers simple. They're all still a tad rubbery, but the margin looks good so I'll keep plugging away and firm the numbers up as I go along.
Cheers,
Michael.
I've allowed a year for the build, and it will probably take me a few months yet to get to the starting line. So mid-2009 is looking like the current realistic timeframe to completion.
Kenster, the interest is only $50K odd and is wrapped into my professional fees just to keep the numbers simple. They're all still a tad rubbery, but the margin looks good so I'll keep plugging away and firm the numbers up as I go along.
Cheers,
Michael.
