Purchasing in VIC - Frankston Area

A very simple exercise with very interesting results:

I thought if, as all agents in Frankston say its been the busiest time for them in years, then it must reflect in the figures on real estate website


I chose 3 suburbs – Frankston, Dandenong and Werribee

All 3 searches resulted in 200+ searches.

Out of Dandenong’s 200 first search results, 6 properties were “Under contract/ Under offer”

Werribee had 13 under contract

Frankston had 65 properties under contract for the first 200 searches..!

At the risk of being labelled as spruiking the area after I have bought a few properties there, I welcome everyone to counter my conclusion/suggestions with their own arguments and happy to stand corrected, if what I am suggesting does not sound correct.

Regards

Harris



Hi Harris,

Well a number of commentators have been talking about the area for a while - eg Terry Ryder. I know I first read about Frankston being a good place to invest before the East Link is completed in the API magazine in 2005. So, I went out and did it!!!

Looks as though things are really happening. Bring it on, I say! :D

Another great research tip by the way. I like it.

Regards Jason.
 
Maybe I'll tell you after I've purchased ;)

Note that buyers looking for cheap properties may now be competing against interstate BAs, such as the following Sydney tourists, who were spotted at a home open in Melbourne today.

http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2007/03/27/1174761471757.html

Peter

Hi Spiderman,

I had a feeling you may let me in on a bargain by after you had sealed and signed such a deal. ;)

Your article is interesting. I heard about this group a little while ago. Fancy the consultant Jennifer Reeves making this comment "Nobody works out here so there's nothing to do except breed and rent houses." Although after visiting my tenants in Frankston last week I believe there may be some truth in such a statement. (Although Frankston is not outer west, but outer east). My tenant told me she would pay her rent (which is behind mind you) after she was paid. I nearly said paid by who? (Its actually CentreLink) - us the tax payers!! lol!

I felt like explaining to her that she was actually being subsidised twice by the government for her accommonation - once through her rental assist payments, and secondly through the negative gearing on my property. However, I thought this may go above her somewhat!!

They say the truth hurts!! :eek:

Regards Jason.
 
Your article is interesting. I heard about this group a little while ago. Fancy the consultant Jennifer Reeves making this comment "Nobody works out here so there's nothing to do except breed and rent houses." Although after visiting my tenants in Frankston last week I believe there may be some truth in such a statement.

To be fair, she claims to have been misquoted. Since journalists and the real estate industry have similar levels of public credibility (the media maybe a touch lower), let's just call it a draw.

Although after visiting my tenants in Frankston last week I believe there may be some truth in such a statement.

Also facts from credible sources such as the ABS do show some truth in it. After all, there would be something wrong with the social security system's generosity if all the pension recipients lived in the poshest suburbs. It just goes with the territory - in cheaper suburbs you will have more unemployed/disability support pensioners/single mums, etc than elsewhere. And they can turn out terrific long-term tenants. If you don't like it, don't invest there.

Having said that, you will see some thing you don't like in the cheaper suburbs. And when inspecting houses one will hear some tales from tenants about bad PMs, neighbours, etc.

Here's two examples, both sighted in suburban Melbourne in the last month:

1. Suburban house with double garage converted into flat (council has no record of this being approved). The house has a single parent family with 3 kids. This was spotless but not all the lights had bulbs in them as they're Sudanese and have a superstition about electricity. According to the agent rent is paid in the dark when he comes around.

Entering the converted garage however one almost tripped over four or five mattresses that spread wall to wall. There was a small kitchen area with stove, a tiny bathroom and toilet. Apart from the TV there was no furniture of note. Clothes were scattered on the floor of a small room partially seperated from the toilet (the internal wall didn't go all the way up to the ceiling). Four or five Indian students / part-time security guards called this double garage their home.

2. Visited today was an ex-commission home in another outer suburb. The court with about 6 houses had around 20 cars scattered around it. Every horizontal surface was supporting junk (the tenants were moving out and couldn't wait), and even the agents photo in the brochure revealed a cluttered front yard.

The tenant said that they couldn't put a light in a child's room because of the house wiring. Hence powerboards everywhere. Roots from a neighbours tree had played havoc with sewage pipes - that's why the grass was so green in parts. We won't go into the leaking shower (the bathroom floor was on one level with no sunken shower area), the bad gutters or the patio that leaks, forcing water down the walls. Oh, and the mice!

When we came she was on the internet reading about people with 20 piercings through their legs. She had been there 3 years but when moving in saw syringes and rubbish from the previous tenants (who'd been there 3 months then were evicted).

Neighbours were described as psychos (one was her brother) and the tenant had witnessed the house opposite burning (probably an insurance job she claims).

Various faults were reported but none got fixed. The property was (mis?)managed by a real estate agency that recently went bust. It was transferred to another (one of the well-known chains), but the property manager also switched over.

The cheapest areas generally have one or two rogue houses in a street, but this particular court seemed to have them all.

Maybe the tenant was into exaggeration, but it sure was a great yarn. The thing about it was that the asking price was about the same as houses that (probably) wouldn't have had all these problems. The agent is being completely unrealistic since the above problems would surely knock tens of thousands off the price (which if they could be fixed for thousands, makes it worthwhile for the investor). Though these aren't going to fix the 'worst street' issue, this could be the sort of stuff of which $100k houses are made (if the vendor is willing and quits insisting on an asking price of nearly double).
 
To be fair, she claims to have been misquoted. Since journalists and the real estate industry have similar levels of public credibility (the media maybe a touch lower), let's just call it a draw.



Also facts from credible sources such as the ABS do show some truth in it. After all, there would be something wrong with the social security system's generosity if all the pension recipients lived in the poshest suburbs. It just goes with the territory - in cheaper suburbs you will have more unemployed/disability support pensioners/single mums, etc than elsewhere. And they can turn out terrific long-term tenants. If you don't like it, don't invest there.


To be fair to my tenant, I actually blame the previous PM who put her into the property, probably knowing full well she really couldn't afford it. My new PM assures me that I will be able to find a tenant who can pay the rent on time. You are right, many single mums, etc are excellent tenants, there are always exception to the rules. The same could be said of any demographic group. I have heard of many professionals being difficult tenants as well. I shouldn't generalize, but sometimes its tempting to be drawn into the whole "better suburb" debate!!


Having said that, you will see some thing you don't like in the cheaper suburbs. And when inspecting houses one will hear some tales from tenants about bad PMs, neighbours, etc.

Here's two examples, both sighted in suburban Melbourne in the last month:

1. Suburban house with double garage converted into flat (council has no record of this being approved). The house has a single parent family with 3 kids. This was spotless but not all the lights had bulbs in them as they're Sudanese and have a superstition about electricity. According to the agent rent is paid in the dark when he comes around.

Entering the converted garage however one almost tripped over four or five mattresses that spread wall to wall. There was a small kitchen area with stove, a tiny bathroom and toilet. Apart from the TV there was no furniture of note. Clothes were scattered on the floor of a small room partially seperated from the toilet (the internal wall didn't go all the way up to the ceiling). Four or five Indian students / part-time security guards called this double garage their home.

2. Visited today was an ex-commission home in another outer suburb. The court with about 6 houses had around 20 cars scattered around it. Every horizontal surface was supporting junk (the tenants were moving out and couldn't wait), and even the agents photo in the brochure revealed a cluttered front yard.

The tenant said that they couldn't put a light in a child's room because of the house wiring. Hence powerboards everywhere. Roots from a neighbours tree had played havoc with sewage pipes - that's why the grass was so green in parts. We won't go into the leaking shower (the bathroom floor was on one level with no sunken shower area), the bad gutters or the patio that leaks, forcing water down the walls. Oh, and the mice!

When we came she was on the internet reading about people with 20 piercings through their legs. She had been there 3 years but when moving in saw syringes and rubbish from the previous tenants (who'd been there 3 months then were evicted).

Neighbours were described as psychos (one was her brother) and the tenant had witnessed the house opposite burning (probably an insurance job she claims).

Various faults were reported but none got fixed. The property was (mis?)managed by a real estate agency that recently went bust. It was transferred to another (one of the well-known chains), but the property manager also switched over.

The cheapest areas generally have one or two rogue houses in a street, but this particular court seemed to have them all.

Maybe the tenant was into exaggeration, but it sure was a great yarn. The thing about it was that the asking price was about the same as houses that (probably) wouldn't have had all these problems. The agent is being completely unrealistic since the above problems would surely knock tens of thousands off the price (which if they could be fixed for thousands, makes it worthwhile for the investor). Though these aren't going to fix the 'worst street' issue, this could be the sort of stuff of which $100k houses are made (if the vendor is willing and quits insisting on an asking price of nearly double).


Gee, I have never seen such places. Which suburbs were you looking in?? Are you going to invest there?
 
Gee, I have never seen such places. Which suburbs were you looking in?? Are you going to invest there?

The suburbs involved are outer parts of Melbourne, south-east or west of the city.

The first house was well presented in an OK street. You wouldn't know about the squalid living conditions until you opened the front door of the bungalow.

The second was in perhaps the worst street of the suburb. Other street though basic are fairly neat - just normal working class people who mind their business.

I would be willing to invest in such areas. You cannot tell what's behind the door of houses in even the 'best' areas. For the second, I might still buy in that suburb but in a better street.

Peter
 
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bought this prop in Frankston South this week.


http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?fslm=1&a=o&id=103304433&t=res

about 1200sqm on the corner of Esplanade .

Not sure if I should renovate the main house and build 2 dble story town houses at the rear or demolish and build 4. Most likely, would sit on it for a few years and get the plans drawn up in the meantime.

Cheers

Harris

Congratulations Harris,

It looks like it has a fantastic view of the Bay? What were some of the pre-purchase checks that you did with regard to subdividing the property?

eg:

1) Checks with council to see if it could be subdivided
2) Checks with council and builders/town planners to see how many town houses you could fit on the block?

Any other checks that I haven't thought of?

Sounds like a great idea waiting for a while until the land increases in value before you build some Town Houses.

Regards Jason.
 
Called council and confirmed that it can be sub-divided into 4 since 7 Nolan is on similar sized block and has 4 townhouses built in 2005.

It has a drainage easement that runs through the property (that also runs to next door property with those t/houses), so the plans would require some modifications to conform to council guide lines.

My prefernce would be to renovate the house in a couple of years since it is a great solid house with a lot of character and then build 2 at the rear.

Will wait till the prop values in the area have risen by atleast 25% before doing anything.

Cheers
Harris


Congratulations Harris,

It looks like it has a fantastic view of the Bay? What were some of the pre-purchase checks that you did with regard to subdividing the property?

eg:

1) Checks with council to see if it could be subdivided
2) Checks with council and builders/town planners to see how many town houses you could fit on the block?

Any other checks that I haven't thought of?

Sounds like a great idea waiting for a while until the land increases in value before you build some Town Houses.

Regards Jason.
 
Well Done

Well done Harris

I went through that property. Too pricey for me. I am not a developer, but great block and location. you cant go wrong.

I have a unit in Nolan st, but on the other side of Kar St. What you have there, in my opinion, is the best location in Frankston.

I look forward to driving by and checking out your progress.
 
Gee, I have never seen such places. Which suburbs were you looking in?? Are you going to invest there?

Now that sufficient time has elapsed, I can say that the house with the converted garage & mattresses was in Noble Park while the other was in Studley Ct Laverton.

Peter
 
hello,

i would hang onto that one in nolan st, land appreciation will be mega just as is I imagine, great trophy home, that section of frankston sth from kars st to beach is primo

grew up in frankston south as now known, 24 yrs

regards

myla
 
Thanks Myla and Toony for your encouraging feedback.

The deal maker for that property for me was the fact that it is almost in direct line of sight with uninterrupted views for the new Marina.

Once the east link is completed and work on new frankston marina starts, I am expecting some serious appreciation for my development blocks in Frank Sth.

Harris

hello,

i would hang onto that one in nolan st, land appreciation will be mega just as is I imagine, great trophy home, that section of frankston sth from kars st to beach is primo

grew up in frankston south as now known, 24 yrs

regards

myla
 
The deal maker for that property for me was the fact that it is almost in direct line of sight with uninterrupted views for the new Marina.

Are you sure? I thought the Marina was more towards the Peninsula. But the views and location are a real asset. In 10 yrs you will be amazed at how cheap you got the property.
 
Thanks Myla and Toony for your encouraging feedback.

The deal maker for that property for me was the fact that it is almost in direct line of sight with uninterrupted views for the new Marina.

Once the east link is completed and work on new frankston marina starts, I am expecting some serious appreciation for my development blocks in Frank Sth.

Harris

Hi Harris,

Do you know when work is planned on the new marina? Has it been approved yet?

Regards Jason.
 
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