2 townhouse architectural drafting quotation

[schebib]

Hi all,

My first development and seeking your opinions

I am in the process of getting a second and third architectural drafting quotation for a 2 double story (side by side) townhouse development in Melbourne. The first quote has come in at $3,900 PLUS GST. Below is a scope for the work. Is this a reasonable price to be paying for the work provided? Are there any questions I should be asking prior to signing the dotted line?


SCOPE:
• Schematic Process, including verification of existing conditions.

• Liaison and co-ordination of consultants including Landscape Architect, Surveyors & Town Planners as required.

• Design, Documentation and Preparation of Town Planning drawings for submission to relevant City Council for a Town Planning Application. Which includes the following:
_ Concept proposal drawings & final Town Planning documentation for
submission to Council, which shall include all Floor Plans &Elevations, Town
Planning reports as required.
_ Lodge Applications & Liaise with Council as required.
_ Monitor & follow up application on a periodic basis
_ Minor Adjustments to Application as required by possible Further Information Requirements by Council. (see notes below).
_ Erection and Control of advertising process including submission of
Statutory Declaration to complete Advertising Process.
_ All Client liaison, discussions & professional advice.
_ Liaison with Council as required.
_ Attendance to one Mediation / Council meeting (see note below)


ADDITIONS/DISBURSEMENTS TO THE SCOPE OF WORKS:
_ Council Application Fees for Development more $500,000 than but less than $1,000,000 in value $ 707.00
_ Site Analysis Survey – subject to site access being Considered a normal access site. $ 1500.00 approx
_ Landscape Drawings (if required) $ 600.00 approx
_ Council Advertising Process & Notification Process $ tba if required

NOTES:
The above quotation is based on Unit Development site where the front existing dwelling is to be demolished (where applicable), with two new dwellings constructed with a total squarage of approximately 16-25 sqs approx.

Your feedback is very much appreciated.

Regards
Sam

 

[Felixter]

That's very cheap. That's what I paid and to be honest I got what I paid for.

A few tips:

1. Be aware that a potential problem using a draftsperson rather than an architect is that the council architect may treat your design more harshly for no other reason than he feels anyone who hasn't done a uni degree (ie draftsperson) is inferior. This happened to me. Next time I do a dev I will strongly consider coughing up an extra $10-15k. Not essential, but something to be wary about.

What is essential though:

2. Whoever you get to do the architecturals, make sure they are local. Councils tend to treat newbies with contempt, whether that be you as the owner, or an architect. Imagine a draftsperson from outside the area they have never dealt with before. Image the council planner asigned to your construction. He is flipping through his DAs.

"Yep, Terry Smith, dealt with him for years, good bloke old Terry, designs good stuff, knows what the council wants, and usually sticks within the parameters. So who's this. Bill Jones. Never heard of him. Looks like he's from <insert non local suburb here>. Not sure if he's any good. Better scrutinise him quite heavily.

You want your draftsperson/architect to be Terry Smith and not Bill Jones. And you want to make sure you get references from Terry's previous clients. Last thing you want is a person know to council who they don't like.

 

[schebib]

Thank you for your quick reply Felixter. Will definitely consider your suggestions.

I will be getting at least a couple more quotes from both draftsman and architects. This particular company was recommended by a well known structural engineer who's office is a couple streets away from the development site. They are local and do plenty of development projects in the area.

Cheers
sam

 

[sanj]

That's very cheap. That's what I paid and to be honest I got what I paid for.

A few tips:

1. Be aware that a potential problem using a draftsperson rather than an architect is that the council architect may treat your design more harshly for no other reason than he feels anyone who hasn't done a uni degree (ie draftsperson) is inferior. This happened to me. Next time I do a dev I will strongly consider coughing up an extra $10-15k. Not essential, but something to be wary about.

What is essential though:

2. Whoever you get to do the architecturals, make sure they are local. Councils tend to treat newbies with contempt, whether that be you as the owner, or an architect. Imagine a draftsperson from outside the area they have never dealt with before. Image the council planner asigned to your construction. He is flipping through his DAs.

"Yep, Terry Smith, dealt with him for years, good bloke old Terry, designs good stuff, knows what the council wants, and usually sticks within the parameters. So who's this. Bill Jones. Never heard of him. Looks like he's from <insert non local suburb here>. Not sure if he's any good. Better scrutinise him quite heavily.

You want your draftsperson/architect to be Terry Smith and not Bill Jones. And you want to make sure you get references from Terry's previous clients. Last thing you want is a person know to council who they don't like.

this is pretty far from my experience.

I have used designers twice and had no issues with them not being architects.

One was local to the council, the other one wasn't.

Re the price I think it is very reasonable

 

[brazen]

Im a drafstperson and I do a huge range of projects from small residential, commercial and industrial projects including new factories and shops etc. I do work all over NSW and Im one of the consultants a lot of Council's ask for advice from when they want to change/improve their approval processes. Why? Because I submit over 800 jobs a year- so yes, they know my work.

It does take time to be a good designer. It's really this: Who is my reader? Who am I drawing these plans for? Ive seen so many fancy plans drawn up by architects that are hard to read or, worse still, not buildable...whether the client's budget wont ever match the design or it doesnt maximise land-use or it's just impractical etc..

I am not an architect. Im a draftsman. I have, though, received compliments over the years from many Heads of Planning @ Council's for the level of detail and the way I present my work. So, you certainly don't have to have your Bachelor's to do quality work. I do have a teaching degree but I doubt that's relevant.


That price quoted IMHO is very good.

For that price Id personally only put an already drawn up design (a floor plan) onto a block of land. That is, they have the florr plan already in their habd, and I do the rest:

1. The Detail Survey.
2. The Site Analysis Plan
3. Demolition Plan + Waste Management Plan
4. Drainage Concept Plan as per AS-3500 and Council's Stormwater Policy.
5. BASIX/Energy Efficiency compliances (in consultation with the client's preferances)
6. All Council forms/statements
7. Specifications/compliances
8. Liase with Engineer, arrange landscape plan (if necessary) and any other external consultants.
9. 1 x amendment if it's a client request (i.e. changed their mind)
10. Unlimited amendments if required by Council.

If that draftsperson is designng the floor plan layout for you as well as all of the above, I'd say go for it.

 

[Felixter]

this is pretty far from my experience.

I have used designers twice and had no issues with them not being architects.

One was local to the council, the other one wasn't.

Re the price I think it is very reasonable

3 DAs between us, a problem with 1. That's still a 33% outcome. It's not unreasonable to estimate that maybe 1 in 6 or 7 council architects give a draftsperson a hard time. The old "I went to uni but you went to Tafe therefore I will criticise your inferior work" unfortunately is not uncommon. As I said, I won't be ruling out a draftsperson next time but I will be wary.

 

[schebib]

Thank's Sanj.

Yes Brazen, the draftsperson is designng the floor plan layout as well. I have liaised with other draftsman in the past and they don't compare to the this company. This company seems very professional in their dealings. I will ask to see two of his most similar development plans just to get an idea of his work.

Maybe if it was a bigger project I would see an Architect... but since its a side by side with no common property it isn't that messy. At the moment I'm finding it very hard to try and justify spending $15-$20k.

Are there any costs I should factor in that haven't been mentioned in the quote? and how much can I expect them to cost?

Cheers
Sam

 

[sanj]

Thank's Sanj.

Yes Brazen, the draftsperson is designng the floor plan layout as well. I have liaised with other draftsman in the past and they don't compare to the this company. This company seems very professional in their dealings. I will ask to see two of his most similar development plans just to get an idea of his work.

Maybe if it was a bigger project I would see an Architect... but since its a side by side with no common property it isn't that messy. At the moment I'm finding it very hard to try and justify spending $15-$20k.

Are there any costs I should factor in that haven't been mentioned in the quote? and how much can I expect them to cost?

Cheers
Sam

no worries, glad i could help

an architect will usually take the project through to the end including all your selections and some level of project management during construction.

with a designer you will have to handle that yourself, especially at the price you're paying. not a huge deal and you can get others to help with selections (floor coverings, paint colours etc) but it is something you need to be aware of and budget for.

with this company being very experienced and professional they will probably be willing and able to refer you to interior designers etc if necessary but run it by them anyway

 

[Aaron_C]

For my project the architect is charging me 3% of costs in total all the way from design, town planning to technical drawings. The % cost goes up for smaller projects.

 

[Stacey Survey]

Hi Sam,

In reference to the survey / site analysis side of things, I'm happy to send any information your way such as council requirements and a checklist of things that need to be done for the development process. Can get a bit complicated when looking at the big picture.

Cheers,
Ashley Stacey

 

[Cartoon]

just to reply about a drafts person not going to uni, it is illegal to call yourself an architect unless you have completed the following
Uni deg in architecture
last i seen it was around 5-6 years experiance
you then have to apply to become an architect.

Untill your application is accepted you are an architectural draftsperon or tech. So if you pick the right draftie you will have some one who knows what they are doing

 

[Savanna100]

I've just paid about $3500 for the daring up of a 96 sqm extension and this amount would take the job from scratch to building commencement except for the certifier which is an extra $1100.
I'm happy with the job but, based on the OP, it sounds like I paid too much.

 

[brazen]

I've just paid about $3500 for the daring up of a 96 sqm extension and this amount would take the job from scratch to building commencement except for the certifier which is an extra $1100.
I'm happy with the job but, based on the OP, it sounds like I paid too much.

Did it include the survey? If so, you got a great deal.
$4600 for ALL PLANS, Council submission, amendments and Approvals is pretty good in Sydney anyway.

Notice the price quoted for the OP didnt include Land Survey, Landscape Architects, Drainage Engineer etc (if needed).
Your quote includes ALL work to commencement, so it looks good to me...your thoughts?