Rents went down - the reason Keating brought negative gearing back in 1987, was that when is was abolished (only a year earlier) - rents skyrocketed!!
Cheers,
Jen
2006 census says there is NO SHORTAGE
- Thread starter HiredGoon
- Start date
Rents went down - the reason Keating brought negative gearing back in 1987, was that when is was abolished (only a year earlier) - rents skyrocketed!!
Cheers,
Jen
Hi, can you please provide me with figures that prove this?
There has never been so much negative gearing go on, yet we still have a rental crisis. Why do you think this is?
Do you believe the sharemarket crash or negative gearing were more responsible for a return of investors to residential property?
Why are we the only country with negative gearing? With over 100 acres per person and negative gearing you'd expect low rents to wages, but this is not the case, in fact we have a very high incidence of rental stress in this country. Why are we so different that even *with* negative gearing we have such expensive housing?
From this report:
http://www.econ.mq.edu.au/research/2005/HousePrices.pdf
1985 -> 1986 saw prices drop in real terms in all cities except Sydney, where they went up by only 1.3%
After negative gearing was re-introduced in 1987->1988 prices rose in real terms every capital, 7% in Sydney and 12% in Melbourne.
Falling house prices would not be popular with politicians.
This document:
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&c...egiRWFWVTg5SsiPog&sig2=mYU1enFthLbH6auyU0-3oA
Indicates that while there was indeed spike in rental prices around 1986, rental vacancies remained almost constant from the end of negative gearing until its re-introduction. The facts do not support the argument that a removal of negative gearing caused a decline in supply.
I haven't found any rent statistics - what kinds of rental drops did we see? Does anyone remember lowering their rent in 1987?
Last edited:
This means I can save at least 10-15k MORE for investing in other places vs buying each year while having a significantly better quality of life.
Interestingly, what do you invest in? It obviously isn't property, is it? Could it be shares, or bonds? What are you creating there,BTW? A landlord cops the risk, monetary shortfall, rates,etc, to provide subsidised housing for those who either cannot afford to buy, or are not keen to buy for whatever reason. Some buy IPs to also prepare for their children's future places of residence,ie to give them a foothold in the property market, when my wife and I are long gone. You are in your mid-20s,I probably felt like you when I was your age. When you are staring down the barrel of retiremnt, or worrying about how to help your children, you do what you have to do.
Interestingly, what do you invest in? It obviously isn't property, is it? Could it be shares, or bonds? What are you creating there,BTW? A landlord cops the risk, monetary shortfall, rates,etc, to provide subsidised housing for those who either cannot afford to buy, or are not keen to buy for whatever reason. Some buy IPs to also prepare for their children's future places of residence,ie to give them a foothold in the property market, when my wife and I are long gone. You are in your mid-20s,I probably felt like you when I was your age. When you are staring down the barrel of retiremnt, or worrying about how to help your children, you do what you have to do.
Crisis because rents are too high? They are at market according to you...
Crisis because there are not enough rental properties? But there is an oversupply of houses (according to you) and so much negative gearing....
Alot of the time people place stress on themselves. They work harder to consume more. If rents droped acroos the board would people
a) be happy to pocket the extra cash, or
b) pay the same to afford a better place for themselves and their families, or
c) spend the cash on other consumption?
Last edited:
Got to be honest, I do feel a bit sorry for you if you actually believe everything you proclaim to, including waiting for a correction which will enable you to buy the house you plan on one day.
But you have your beliefs which you cling to despite any reasoning otherwise, so good luck for your financial future
And with that "Add HiredGoon to Your Ignore List."
But you have your beliefs which you cling to despite any reasoning otherwise, so good luck for your financial future
And with that "Add HiredGoon to Your Ignore List."
ooooookay - when considering investment properties do you take on board facts from a census that comes out every 5 years to indicate that there were multiple housing vacancies on a set night - or do you take on board the obvious lack of rental properties in given area, the stats of hia, residex, rpdata, rei and various major banks?
i know who i punt - and it ain't a skewed census. the stats of a set night, once if 5 years is not (imo) an indicator of the property market. the market is a living, breathing entity which cannot be snapshot on one night and hearlded as gospel - that would be like taking 5 hours in a person's day and saying "ah, they sleep, therefore they must spend all their time sleeping".
doesn't make sense.
me? i'm looking at buying 2-3 more ip's in the next six months.
i know who i punt - and it ain't a skewed census. the stats of a set night, once if 5 years is not (imo) an indicator of the property market. the market is a living, breathing entity which cannot be snapshot on one night and hearlded as gospel - that would be like taking 5 hours in a person's day and saying "ah, they sleep, therefore they must spend all their time sleeping".
doesn't make sense.
me? i'm looking at buying 2-3 more ip's in the next six months.
Last edited:
There was an unchanged vacancy rate....
Hey - isn't the low vacancy rate used here as a justification for rent rises?
People here seem to ignore the census, which is by far the most comprehensive, respected and rigorous statistical survey of the country, and believe the mainstream media who receive the largest portion of ad revenue from the Real Estate industry? Believe whoever you want, I'm believing the ABS.
i don't think anyone here believes the mainstream media - and would have rocks in their heads to do so. we all know how unbiased and unsensationalised the media are
but - we do follow the independent, unbiased and unaffliated associations report. hia is one major of such and property council of australia is another. i personally also follow what the market is dictating in real terms - and that is something you can only know "if" you are in the market. if there is so much vacant property for renters to pick and choose from then why have i just put my rents up $10-20/wk each and not one of my renters made a squeak?
p.s. we do love the mainstream media tho. because so many uneducated punters do believe what they see/read, they either herd or scatter and leave those of us that are working the cycles to pick the eye teeth out of the situation.
Last edited:
Isnt it funny how somebody can sit there & preach to those who are experienced & probably been through at least 1 property cycle and he hasnt even touched first base as yet. Oh well he can sit on the fence forever in a day waiting & hoping, its really like waiting for your numbers to come up in tattslotto.
With that being said i think he is here to stir the pot so its best to ignore his negative attitude & let him believe what he wants to believe.
With that being said i think he is here to stir the pot so its best to ignore his negative attitude & let him believe what he wants to believe.
Yes, it was.
Hypothetical analogy.
Qantas has 2% empty seats on its flights to Asia and prices suddenly spike due to an external factor (eg higher fuel prices). Do to you think as many people will fly? My guess is no - some will be priced out, some will have the money but decide the price is not worth it. The vacancy rate will only stay at 2% is Qantas cuts flights - ie reduces supply.
It is possible to have HOUSEHOLD growth and population decline. Not saying that is what happened, just saying it is possible.
On the flip side - if your friends did not commit to the landlord greater than 6 months, why should the landlord commit to them? I'm a renter too, and if I ever see a place asking for only a 6 month lease it's pretty obvious to me why.
Yes, sometimes it's unfortunate that a home sits empty whilst someone sleeps on the street. It's one of the downsides to capitalism. However, you can't argue with the advantages of capitalism. No other system is more free and efficient. If you know of a better method you are free to propose it.
We've already discussed this. Hairdressers don't BUILD anything either. Property investors provide a SERVICE.
It's great you are seeking the truth. Keep the maths coming and we'll keep discussing them.
Also does it take into account that 9 other households (out of my block of 12 apartments) responded with 'Uhhhh, yeah, I was out of the country/not occupying this household that night' when the Census boy came around to collect them. I was standing out the front of the block checking my mail while he was there buzzing each unit and jotting marking them all down. In census land 'Person couldn't be stuffed to fill out form' = 'Empty household', and I can tell you there are lot of people who couldn't be stuffed.
Rent prices are the one of simplest case of supply and demand. Landlords simply wouldn't be able to raise their rents if there we were in a situation of high supply / low demand.
I am not convinced that the census stats reflect what's really going on. I have have no doubt that there are some areas with an oversupply - lots of country areas have declining populations. There are also plenty of areas with undersupply. When you look at individual properties, it's actually not that hard to find properties in good areas that have high demand for both rental and OO. Given that the population of Australia is rising, such areas increase in 'exclusivity' over time. There have been a number of discussions here about the 'mortgage belt', and how it moves outward over time - this is the same concept.
I think this topic has been done to death. Owner Occupiers dominate the market, and make emotional decisions. People are also, in general, stupid - they borrow too much and refuse to make sacrifices to get what they want. Investors sift through the market and find those individual properties where the numbers work, then rent those properties out anyway.
Time for a new topic, I think.
I think this topic has been done to death. Owner Occupiers dominate the market, and make emotional decisions. People are also, in general, stupid - they borrow too much and refuse to make sacrifices to get what they want. Investors sift through the market and find those individual properties where the numbers work, then rent those properties out anyway.
Time for a new topic, I think.
HiredGoon, do you really believe everything reported to the Census collector. Do you believe the people who say their religion is "Jedi Knight" or whatever.....
Plenty of people (I think) having a bit of fun with the government or not caring enough to fill it out correctly, or at all, or knowing that they could be fined, filling it with any sort of rubbish that comes to mind.
Wylie
Plenty of people (I think) having a bit of fun with the government or not caring enough to fill it out correctly, or at all, or knowing that they could be fined, filling it with any sort of rubbish that comes to mind.
Wylie
which is one reason investors don't like going to auction against potential owners ... they bid with emotion.
more assumptions - on my last three purchased properties (within the last 18mths in prime areas) the rentals are at 5.6%, 5.5%, 4.2% of the purchase price - not quite half but granted lower than the cash rate.
however, if we then factor in tax refund, depreciation and capital gains, then the figures ain't so shabby after all.
Do you remember there being a census box to tick saying "does the house we dropped this form off at exist?"
And Lizzie, I think you forgot to write *expected* capital gains. But then you have to ask - why would people keep paying more and more for an investment with risk that returns less than cash? Oh right, because someone else will then someone else will then etc etc. That works, until it doesn't.
Similar threads
