5 year fixed rates thread

If you calculate the extra interest on 25k or the interest you would have earned if you had it in the bank say at 5% over the same period do these large break fees really work out for people or is it just something you have to wear?

I stayed on variable not because I was to smart but because I was to slack to organise it.

My friend has done his figures and thinks that it will work out. He said that the figures look better if he can capitalise the 25K, claim some or most of the 25K as an allowable deduction for tax purposes and end up with a much lower interest rate.

He is pretty sure that his property will now be cash flow positive while previously it was negative.
 
beating the banks with fixed rates is kind of akin to beating the dealer at blackjack.
.... if you had a "cheat-sheet" printout of all the cards that have been dealt from the deck.

Its not that hard, if you dont weigh emotion and fear over reason and probabilities.
 
Fixing rates for multi-IP owners is more about risk management (managing debt levels and interest rate risk) and SANF than $ savings and outsmarting banks.

I agree. I certainly haven't lost overall through fixing loans - mostly I have been better off. But if we had not fixed then mid last year we would have been in a seriously negative cash flow position.

Fixed rates given us SANF, more certainty in planning (thus allowing us to be slightly more agressive investors), and have saved us from forced sales which would be far more painful than any fixed rate break fee. As far as we are concerned fixed rates are an insurance poilicy that overall dosn't cost us money. Gotta be happy with that.

We can't weather the higher rates so we lock in part of our portfolio. Over time as our portfolio becomees more and more positive we may change our strategy.

It is not a battle between us and the bank - it's about buidling a sustainable profitable portfolio. If we can lock in rates that keep our porfolio positive for the next 5 years I will choose to do so and will use excess cash for further purchases and debt reduction. For us that is a win.
 
JIT,

I am doing exactly this as a risk management strategy....at the same time I am dramatically increasing my activities in acquisition game.

Some people have asked me ...what happens if you lose your job. From where I sit....you can mitigate this by getting positive cashflow property.

Another thing is to spread out then the fixed rates expire. You don't want $2million expiring when rate shoot back up to 7-8% next cycle. I am trying to spread the expiration amounts to a more manageable 500k max per year. Some people will say rents will cover it ....on a longer term average rents go up about 1-2% above inflation ....so this is a bonus rather than something I count one.

There is evidence that Commercial Property players may not have funds extended again when their loans expire. It will be interesting times for the player who have their loans expire then!



Fixing rates for multi-IP owners is more about risk management (managing debt levels and interest rate risk) and SANF than $ savings and outsmarting banks.
 
Fixed rates given us SANF, more certainty in planning (thus allowing us to be slightly more agressive investors)...

Yes, it's a lot easier for me to continue to expand my portfolio with this SANF.

GoAnna said:
it's about buidling a sustainable profitable portfolio.

Good point.

sash said:
Another thing is to spread out then the fixed rates expire.

Yes, that's something I'm considering too.
 
it is more complicated then that, there is a thread about bank funding cost in property economics that explain a bit more.
Anyway you have to consider banks get proabably around 50% of the money from deposit and get a lot of money from the taxpayer backed bonds that banks are selling to overseas investor, probably at a spread of over 100 bp more then the fixed government bond (that for the 5 year today stand at 3.58%).
In any case the variable rate will get much cheaper then the fixed rate (for example the 1 or 2 year government bond stand at 2.57% wich is 1% less then the 5 year. So it is a difficoult decision to fix the rate and pay much higher interest rates at present. At the end of the day the decision is based on the usual balance of greed and fear


a) I know. Just providing the example. They key thing to keep in mind is that you don't raise money at 5% if you can get in through other mechanisms at a similar term for a lower cost.

b) In the example you give:

Funding cost for 5 year debt is 5 year swap (3.58%) plus issuance cost (1.00%) plus govt guarantee cost for AAA to AA- rated bank (.70%) = 5.28%

c) add extra .80% for less than AA- bank (regionals)
 
I'm not sure why some refer to beating the bank by locking in a fixed rate? The bank will never lend a fixed rate at an unprofitable rate for them, ditto variable rates. (Excluding promotional rates, etc)

Either fixed or variable, the bank makes money.
 
Hi All

I have been watching the 5y fixed rates like a hawk lately, I also benefited from a great 5 yr rate I had a CBA 6.14% It reset last October. I want to once again achieve teh same thing,
Currently CBA is at 6.49% (with the .15% discount) I do not believe we will see a sub 6% rate from the majors, I notice the 2, 5 & 10 yr treasury bonds bottomed on Feb 2nd & know are beggining to climb!! I sure hope like hell that they will drop teh 5 yr rate at least once more so i can lock in.

Spud
 
You will know in about 22 days....when the next rate cut is announced.

I am of the opinion...there is at least another 1-1.5% in the 5 yr rates.

Hi All

I have been watching the 5y fixed rates like a hawk lately, I also benefited from a great 5 yr rate I had a CBA 6.14% It reset last October. I want to once again achieve teh same thing,
Currently CBA is at 6.49% (with the .15% discount) I do not believe we will see a sub 6% rate from the majors, I notice the 2, 5 & 10 yr treasury bonds bottomed on Feb 2nd & know are beggining to climb!! I sure hope like hell that they will drop teh 5 yr rate at least once more so i can lock in.

Spud
 
You will know in about 22 days....when the next rate cut is announced.

I am of the opinion...there is at least another 1-1.5% in the 5 yr rates.

i hope/pray/think the same, we can see where rates are heading, but the fixed ones are guesswork, and lot harder too predict.

anyone have fixed rates for other countries? like us uk europe japan and england?
 
Heres the latest article from news.com

More people to fix as interest rates come down, experts say

INTEREST rates are tipped to hit a record-low by winter - and analysts say this makes fixed-rate home loans a good idea again.

The popularity of fixed-rate loans collapsed to a record-low last year as the Reserve Bank of Australia slashed rates aggressively.

This left some families paying interest rates of more than nine per cent while others on variable rates saw their mortgages drop.

But fixed mortgages are now seen as possible insurance against a surprise rise in rates.

Aussie Home Loans founder and executive chairman John Symond says the overnight cash rate will hit two per cent by mid-2009, down from the present 45-year low of 3.25 per cent.

"I do believe the cash rate will get down to 2 per cent within the next three to four months," Mr Symond told AAP.

The official cash rate has not approached this level since the RBA was legislated in 1959.

With interest rates on home loans now also at four-decade lows, Aussie's Mr Symond said fixed-rate borrowing was starting to look like a good option again.

"We're getting very close to where fixed rates may be very appealing," he said.

"I would think consumers should keep their eyes out for the next month.

"My feeling is if you can lock in a fixed rate within half a percent of record lows, you've done very well."

A senior analyst with financial products researcher Canstar Cannex, Harry Senlitonga, said there was no guarantee interest rates would not rise again unexpectedly, which made fixed-rate mortgages a compelling choice.

"It's a big question mark with interest rates: in three years anything can happen," Mr Senlitonga said.

Macquarie Group interest rates strategist Rory Robertson said interest rates were likely to hit 2 per cent.

But he thinks this will happen later in the year rather than by mid-year because he believes the RBA will cut rates by smaller margins than it has recently.

Debt futures markets see interest rates falling to three per cent by March, which would be the lowest cash rate since early 1960.

With fixed-rate loans now holding a record-low share of the mortgage market, lenders are offering cheaper mortgage rates to entice borrowers away from the lowest standard variable mortgage rates since the 1960s.

St George is offering a fixed-rate mortgage rate of 5.64 per cent, set for three years.

The rate is only marginally lower than the 5.74 per cent standard variable rate offered by NAB and the Commonwealth Bank.

But the fixed-rate mortgage would be attractive if rates rose again in the next three years, and drove up standard variable rates.

Just 2.5 per cent of new borrowers chose a fixed-rate home loan, set for two years or longer, in November, Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows.

Months earlier, between March and August, more than 43,000 unlucky borrowers locked themselves into fixed rate home loans, charging more than nine per cent interest, because they thought rates would keep rising as inflation soared.

Mr Robertson said future rate cuts from the RBA were likely to be smaller than the 100 basis point margins delivered in February, December and October, on top of smaller cuts in between.

"The future moves will be smaller and will be delivered more than one meeting apart," he said.

The latest rate cut on Tuesday took the cash rate to a 45-year low of 3.25 per cent, and standard variable home loan rates below six per cent for the first time since the 1960s.
 
Hi Nth Brisbanite,

The words I've heard is that 75% of the time, Variable wins. 25% of the time, Fixed wins. I'm not talking about Banks (they ALWAYS win!!) - I'm talking about you (us, me).

Your post reinforces my view that fixing a loan is fraught with danger. The great majority lose out while the banks think it is great. A friend of mine fixed for 5 years at about 9%; it's going to cost him over $25,000 in break fees but even then he thinks that it may be worth it as rates will continue to be cut over the next few months.
Fixing at the RIGHT TIME is not fraught with danger - and it seems to me that "the right time" is around the time when Variable and Fixed Rates swap places (but watch out, you need to choose the RIGHT swap). As the rates rise, Variable will tend to be ahead of Fixed (leading MANY to Fix - in fear that Variable will go higher). To me, that is a long odds decision.

In the current cycle, as rates continue to drop, Fixed tends to LEAD Variable (i.e. it's lower) but there comes a time when Variable overtakes Fixed. And THERE is when I'm looking to fix. Yes, the Fixed is (a little) higher, but I'm looking 5 years out. Or 7.....

Your use of the word lucky is very appropriate. Fixing is akin to betting at the TAB in that most punters lose out while the TAB always wins in the long term.
For some, that may well be true..... The answer is education.

To everything, there is a season - and that includes WHEN to fix, and when NOT to fix, Interest rates. ;)

Regards,
 
You will know in about 22 days....when the next rate cut is announced.

I am of the opinion...there is at least another 1-1.5% in the 5 yr rates.


here's hoping !!

It was interesting to see WBC's 4.99% for 3 years offer even though short lived
 
The answer is education.
Les, all the education in the world is not going to help. Most of us can't beat the banks when it comes to fixed rates because they have got many people working full time to make sure that they win in most cases.

When the rates were 9% people were locking in at 8.5% because they thought that rates were going to go up to 13%. Now that they are about 5.7% variable, people on this forum are looking for fixed rates for 5% over 5 years. The world is going through one of the worst recessions since the 30s; in fact, there is no precedence upon which to make decisions. If you lock in at 5%, you may win but you may lose. Interest rates may go down to 3.5% and stay there for a long time. I still think that you are lucky if you can beat the banks with their fixed rates, so why bother fixing? Another thing, if you are forced to sell your house before the 5 years is up you may be up for some hefty break fees.

A year ago, the best brains in Australia could not forecast what is happening to our economy at the moment. If you are able to forecast what is going to happen over the next five years, you're just plain lucky!!
 
Les, all the education in the world is not going to help. Most of us can't beat the banks when it comes to fixed rates because they have got many people working full time to make sure that they win in most cases.

don't confuse mystery woth intelligence. You are talking about the same people that lead us into the current financial mess we are in. Look at MBLs share price to give an insight into their greatness
 
Got no idea what you are talking about. Please explain. What does MBLs stand for?

your saying the banks can out smart the general public, yet they have managed to crash the world economy and half of them have suicided in the process. Their business is like a green grocer... buy some stuff, add a margin and find a customer that can pay you
 
G'day Nth Brisbanite,

There really is no great mystery. In short, if we Fix when rates are low, as Variable gets higher than Fixed, any Break Costs are negligible, or even non-existent. When the situation reverses, all bets are off !!

If we Fix when rates are high, we get "done like a dinner". It really is that simple. Of course, as many others say, emotion gets in the way - e.g. "OMG rates are still going up - we'd better fix now". Banks then laugh all the way to ....... :confused: I'm not sure.... :p

But, if rates are low, people see Variable as being LOWER than Fixed - thus they stick with Variable. When, what they really SHOULD do, is to FIX !!

Many times in life, we need to question our assumptions,

Regards,
 
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