ABN question for trustee company

[woohoo]

I have a pty ltd company A.

I also have a unit trust in the same name A.

"A" pty ltd is the trustee company for Truss A.

does this mean both of them will have the same ABN?

Can "A" Pty Ltd still act as an independant company doing other businesses with a different ABN?

I noticed that my old acountant has given both "A" Pty Ltd and "Trustee for A Truss" the same ABN number.

How can I separate them?

THe reason I;m asking is because i used the trust a few years back doing some business, and there is some tax credit in there. Now I am thinking of using the pty ltd(which is also the trustee) for another business venture with my friend. Just didnt wanna mix up the tax credit already in the truss.

 

[Welcome]

Not sure on the answer to your question regarding the ABN but probably best just to setup another company if you will use one for trading and one as trustee.

 

[Property Hoarde]

The ABN is for one or the other ie it is for the trust or the company not both.

Type the ABN it into the search at www.abr.gov.au

My guess would be that it is the ABN for the Trust.

If you want to use the Company in it own right you can apply for its own ABN and maybe a TFN (ie if it was just a trustee, it might not have one). these can be done at the above website.

Saying that it might be a good idea to set up a new company to do the new venture so business assets are not confussed with trust Assets (by you or creditors). Specially for assets which you can not have the trust name on the documents. eg property titles in VIC.

 

[monalisa]

Agreed with Property Hoarde.

Ordinarily a trustee company does not require an ABN or TFN, only the trust does.

As mentioned previously, just check the ABR website to determine whether the ABN is for the trust or the company.

I may be wrong, but one thing which comes to mind is asset protection - where the trustee company is also running its own business.

It would definitely be ideal to set a new company for a new business.

 

[woohoo]

Agreed with Property Hoarde.

Ordinarily a trustee company does not require an ABN or TFN, only the trust does.

As mentioned previously, just check the ABR website to determine whether the ABN is for the trust or the company.

I may be wrong, but one thing which comes to mind is asset protection - where the trustee company is also running its own business.

It would definitely be ideal to set a new company for a new business.

Hi
Not sure why, but a abn search shows both pty ltd and "trustee for＂both have same abn. Must be the former accountant messed it up she was a bit blur sometimes.
Can this be changed by contacting the ato myself?

 

[monalisa]

Hi

Not too sure about changing it.

You can call the Tax Office to clarify with them? and check why this is the case.

Mona

 

[Mry]

When you do a search of an ABN, it can tell you if the entity type is a company or trust.

For example, Telstra. It states on the search result that it is an Australian Public Company.

So search on your ABN, and find the entity type. You will know what to do then.

 

[woohoo]

Mry,

I did a search for abn, it says "Fixed Unit Trust".

how come my pty ltd trustee company has the same ABN too? So does "the Trustee for A Trust"

I think it is assuming my pty ltd's sole function is to act as a trust. Can I contact ATO to change the ABN?

THe trust is dormant for now, I want to use the pty Ltd for something else..

 

[monalisa]

If it's saying " the trustee for the A Trust" then the ABN is for the trust.

Try searching for A pty ltd to see if it cones up with something.

 

[brendio]

Your setup sounds right. The ABN is for the company in its capacity as trustee for the trust. Any transactions by the company under that ABN are on behalf of the trust. This the "A" Pty Ltd and Trustee of the "A" Trust are the same thing, hence they have the same ABN. The company could apply for another ABN in its own right, but others have already alluded to some of the cons of doing this as opposed to setting up a separate trading company.

 

[woohoo]

Your setup sounds right. The ABN is for the company in its capacity as trustee for the trust. Any transactions by the company under that ABN are on behalf of the trust. This the "A" Pty Ltd and Trustee of the "A" Trust are the same thing, hence they have the same ABN. The company could apply for another ABN in its own right, but others have already alluded to some of the cons of doing this as opposed to setting up a separate trading company.

Hi Brendio,

yes both the pty ltd and "trustee for" have the same abn. I thought it was strange, because I have another trust and trustee company, and both have different abn.

As the trust is inactive now, i would like to use the pty ltd to do something else.

I'm leaving the trust there for the moment because its got quite a lot of tax credits.

Is it possible to unlink the ABN from the pty ltd? Or will it always be there in the abn website?

 

[brendio]

A pty company can have numerous ABNs. If an ABN is no longer in use, I think it's just a matter of filling out a form to deregister it. I probably wouldn't do that unless the trust was properly wound up first, not just left inactive.

 

[Terryw]

hi

I think confusion is arising because although a trust is not a separate legal entity it is treated as such for tax purposes.

My understanding is that a trust needs an ABN. It is the trustee that has the ABN for the trust as it is the legal entity. A trustee could also have its own ABN if it is trading in its own capacity, ie not as a trustee, but as itself.

 

[The Sniffer]

Allow me:

• "A Pty Ltd" ABN 12 123 456 789
• "A Unit Trust" ABN 12 123 456 789
• "A Pty Ltd" as trustee for the "A Unit Trust" ABN 12 123 456 789

These are all the same thing. If you are using the ABN of the trust - it is the trust doing business.

THis ABN you are discussing is obviously linked to the trust based on the searches.

If the company has it's own ABN (not part of a trust) - IT IS USUALLY IDENTICAL TO THE ACN WITH 2 ADDITIONAL NUMBERS AT THE FRONT.