Accountant's fee of $5500

[StaceyQ]

Hello to all,

I am desperate for a new accountant. Can anyone recommend a good property accountant in Sydney please.

My accountant charged me $5500 last year for tax returns on 2 x PAYE, 1 x unit trust (with one property), 1 x Hybrid trust ( with two properties).

I put everything on spreadsheets, and cannot justify paying $$$$ for tax returns.

Anyone else paying $$$$ in accounting fees???

 

[Joe D]

Okay, that is how much they cost you (which BTW is all deductible).

The real question you should be asking before you change accountants is how much did they save you?

ie. there are plenty of cheaper accountants, but is yours good and does he save you at least what you pay him?

 

[coastymike]

Seems very expensive.

A unit trust with one property we charge 770 to 880 including gst. Hybrid trust same.

So 2 payg with no properties and a unit trust with one property and a hybrid with two. Should be under half of what you are being charged.

Paul@PFI is in sydney and has similar pricing. He offers SS members a further discount so should be able to get it in for around 1.5k to 2k for the package.[email protected]

 

[RetireRich101]

I have been using one in Chatswood for 10 years..
2 PAYE with multiple investment properties, shares, option, espp.. total $500 GST inclusive.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Happy to discuss...I'm VERY familiar with hybrids and UT's and the strategies and the issues and even some fixes having worked in a firm that was a major provider of hybrid trusts etc. I was an adviser to advisers on these structures and strategies. Pricing for most trusts is around $900 and even then its possible to bundle it together...There is a little but not a significant effort. A few of the important inclusions:
- Registers of unitholders maintained
- Trust resolutions compliance
- Trustee ASIC matters.

I work on agreed fixed prices. Makes no sense for a client to pay by the hour. Just rewards inefficiency. Its like Bunnings selling timber by the kilo. I personally do all my work...No junior staff. Personal 1-1 attention.

My email below. Happy to discuss. I'm in Sydney. That said location doesn't mean anything these days. My clients are global.

Mike's estimate is pretty fair (for a SS subscriber) if you have reasonable summaries. SMSFs a touch higher around $1100 +/- + audit @ cost $484.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Okay, that is how much they cost you (which BTW is all deductible).

The real question you should be asking before you change accountants is how much did they save you?

ie. there are plenty of cheaper accountants, but is yours good and does he save you at least what you pay him?

The notion that one accountant can "save" more than the other is ludicrous. One must be incompetent and is therefore overcharging. The other one doesn't save anything - they are doing their job.

I consider it is my job to deliver the best quality outcome regardless of what is charged. Cutting corners to deliver a lower cost saves nothing.

 

[nomadic]

My accountant charged me $5500 last year for tax returns on 2 x PAYE, 1 x unit trust (with one property), 1 x Hybrid trust ( with two properties).

Wow that sounds like a rip off, definitely move to a new one.

Sorry to hijack but does anyone think $1,200 is ok for a tax return with 3 properties in my own name?

 

[coastymike]

I agree with paul re competency. Ive had people come to us after an audit on their cgt calculation and they were hit with penalties and interest. The previous accountant hadnt allocated the purchase price and sale price between depreciating assets and the other stuff. Had incorrectly applied the main residence absence provisions.

If you had compared my calcs to their calcs you would say im terrible because im cheaper and I caused a higher cgt calc and therefore more tax to pay. But on audit the client ended up paying much much more. So the accountant seemed to be saving them money when in reality they havent. Measuring accountants based on a refund is pretty short sighted.

 

[coastymike]

Nomadic

Quite high. You have good records ? Summarised in a spreadsheet provided by your accountant ?

If so an individual return with 3 investment properties. 585 including gst with house of wealth and that includes occassional advice during the year.

1200 quite expensive unless it included once offs e.g. cgt calcs, forex translations, additional advice.

Even with a partner return included shouldnt be that high.

But if your records are crap and you dump a shoebox to your accountant then its possible. We dont take shoebox work so client has a choice. Lower fee.and summarise for us or higher fee elsewhere.

 

[coastymike]

Re the partner personally doing the returns I have a personal and professional view.

When a practice is small the partner may have time to do the returns themselves. But as the practice gets larger over 500k turnover there isnt enough hours in a day for a partner to do returns, provide advice to clients, answer emails , talk to new cluents and provide value added advice. If so let me know how as ive run three practices now and after that level it becomes impossible.

The partners job is therefore to train and manage staff who do the grunt work and then the partner does a review before sending out. Most of the high level stuff is dealt with at partner level.

Ive had experience with an external provider who is excellent but they do everything themselves. Can take weeks for a return call and sometimes never. Paul knows who they are. Thats the problem with doing everything yourself.

I also think as a business adviser if you cant manage a business without delegating then it is going to be impossible to help your business clients to develop strategies to grow theit business. Most of the time ive had to advise clients in business what things to do and what to delegate to free up time doing rhings they should be doing.

Anyway just my 2 c worth on partners doing the returns.

 

[Jamie M]

Hi Stacey

I'd be giving Paul a buzz.

His knowledgeable contributions are always great to read - the guy obviously knows his stuff....and it appears it might even cost you less.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[nhg]

...I pay $550 for 3 properties...

He is a specialised property accountant with a portfolio of 40+ himself.

 

[Spades]

Wow,I'll do it for $4k if ya want

Then i'll pass it on to either coasty or paul and pocket the difference

 

[coastymike]

Haha as long as you are a registered tax agent not a problem

 

[Spades]

Nah i'm not a TA but just saying i'd forward all the relevant paper work onto you coasty or paul.

I'll be the middle man

 

[mumbai]

Hello to all,

I am desperate for a new accountant. Can anyone recommend a good property accountant in Sydney please.

My accountant charged me $5500 last year for tax returns on 2 x PAYE, 1 x unit trust (with one property), 1 x Hybrid trust ( with two properties).

I put everything on spreadsheets, and cannot justify paying $$$$ for tax returns.

Anyone else paying $$$$ in accounting fees???

Either that is a TYPO ($550 instead of $5500) or your accountant needs a sanity check!

 

[Scott No Mates]

Its like Bunnings selling timber by the kilo.

They only sell it by the metre for retail simplicity, they purchase timber by the tonne, determine their yield based on the losses through milling etc then convert to $/m for us dummies.

No different from calculating your hourly costing and charge out rates.

 

[Mick C]

I pay $2,500- for 1 x company and personal and 1 x F/trust ( 6 properties).

$5,500 is a bit insane for a SME business.

 

[jim1964]

I pay $2,500- for 1 x company and personal and 1 x F/trust ( 6 properties).

$5,500 is a bit insane /QUOTE]

I Pay $1100 for a company return,1 X PAYG & a Trust with 9 properties attached.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Nomadic

Quite high. You have good records ? Summarised in a spreadsheet provided by your accountant ?

If so an individual return with 3 investment properties. 585 including gst with house of wealth and that includes occassional advice during the year.

1200 quite expensive unless it included once offs e.g. cgt calcs, forex translations, additional advice.

Even with a partner return included shouldnt be that high.

But if your records are crap and you dump a shoebox to your accountant then its possible. We dont take shoebox work so client has a choice. Lower fee.and summarise for us or higher fee elsewhere.

Mike our mate Dave taught me his trick. Hand the client the calculator. They choose...I add it up and charge or you do it for me.