Achieving wealth through shares...how?

Thanks Evand,

I may never use the word, but I'll always check if I drwa a blank when reading a post...I'm here to learn after all :D

Deification= de·i·fi·ca·tion (d -f -k sh n, d -). n. 1. a. The act or process of deifying. b. The condition of being deified. 2. One that embodies the qualities of a god.

i am not sure whether evand ment deification, diversification, or deworsification.

What ever the case, it DOESNT DETRACT from evands initial post, which i think is top quality, at least for the current times.
 
i am not sure whether evand ment deification, diversification, or deworsification.

What ever the case, it DOESNT DETRACT from evands initial post, which i think is top quality, at least for the current times.

Hi IV,

This post?

Making money in the stock market? Buy shares at any price and sell them at any price higher, Its that simple.

The biggest mistake - by far - i see people making is thinking they know more than the market. What i mean by this is if the market thinks a share is crap, don't buy it thinking you know better. You don't.

If the share price isnt rising or falling, the market thinks either the particular share is crap, the sector it is in is crap, and/or the overall market is crap at that time. Could be either one, two or all 3. But the signal is 'dont buy'.

We arent Warren Buffett.

I have to disclose that i lost a lot of money with this mistake in my early years. Now - with robust risk management in place - i rarely lose money. And often make some.

I was confused by it..
If the share price isnt rising or falling
would mean its static and thats very unusual, so it would mean it is either rising or falling and that means
the market thinks either the particular share is crap, the sector it is in is crap, and/or the overall market is crap at that time

So if its rising its crap, if its falling its crap :confused:

Buy shares at any price and sell them at any price higher, Its that simple.
... is axiomatic

I realise though, that the devil is in the detail and its the detail thats missing ;)

Robust Risk Management sounds interesting though
 
Hi IV,

This post?



I was confused by it.. would mean its static and thats very unusual, so it would mean it is either rising or falling and that means

So if its rising its crap, if its falling its crap :confused:

... is axiomatic

I realise though, that the devil is in the detail and its the detail thats missing ;)

Robust Risk Management sounds interesting though


To requote evand:

If the share price isnt rising or falling, the market thinks either the particular share is crap, the sector it is in is crap, and/or the overall market is crap at that time. Could be either one, two or all 3. But the signal is 'dont buy'.


This is another perceptive quote by Evand. Share prices can sometimes be caught in a tight range. This is what evand is talking about, not day to day fluctuations. So lets say there is a 5% range, shares move up and down within this range. The range is too narrow to provide opportunity to anyone but day traders. Longer term traders want to catch an upwards trend and ride that trend, buying high and selling higher.

So i think what evand is stating is that
(a) the share is crap, which means that nobody is prepared to buy and hold for price appreciation, because the market knows this stock is crap, it will find support at low levels, but the market will quickly dump on any upwards price movement.
(b) the sector is crap: i cant remember the details, but its something like 50%+ of an individual stocks return is represented by the sector. If the market doesnt like the sector, then its hard for an individual stock in that sector to out perform.
(c) the overall market is crap. Sentiment is so against the market, that the market just isnt interested in paying up for individual companies regardless of their fundamentals.

So if one was trading why would one be involved in a stock that showed any of (a)-(c)

From an investors point of view i quite agree with (a) but i would be viewing (b) and (c) as opportunities, especially if i was being compensated through dividends (ie i get paid to wait, and the share price is static meaning my capital is stable).
 
Hi IV,




... is axiomatic

buying high and selling higher might be axiomatic (nice word by the way), yet how many traders fail to do it when the pressure is on.

Look at all the big trader blow ups, Nick Leeson whos trading blew up bearings bank, 2011: some trader at UBS; going into the financial crisis a trader at one of the French banks, our own SOMERSOFT forum pre GFC (go back through history and check out the commentary under shares, how many Somersofters thought they were investing, yet were really trading (especially any comment that focused on price without an investment thesis that justified buying)
 
Thanks IV :D

ax·i·o·mat·ic/ˌaksēəˈmatik/
Adjective: 1.Self-evident or unquestionable.

The Share Market is a fascinating place which literally makes my head spin.

Evand is indeed correct with
Buy shares at any price and sell them at any price higher, Its that simple
As is Kristine with
Buy Houses, Make Money
And off the top of my head, Dazz & Marg with
Eat Less, Move More
To lose weight

If only it were that simple

The more I learn about the share market, the less I know and the further down the rabbit hole I disappear.

The markets consist of many different people, all with different views, experience resources and insight's; many of those opposing their counterparts

There are also those sitting on the sidelines not revealing their hands and waiting to pounce and in the background computers and automatic systems silently and continuously scan, waiting for pre-set triggers to be hit before they activate

Being a conspiracy theorist on the markets, I'm also assuming big business is plotting their next move to take advantage of the 99%'s to recover some of their massive losses encountered whilst drunk at the wheel :cool:

I'd watch the market depth, but as per the previous there are many participants sitting on the sidelines and sellers are oft wont to trickle-feed sales, rather than sell lump sums. They may also wait for willing buyers to show their hands before putting their goods on sale

The butterfly effect also takes place, with some random butterfly in greater mongolia flapping its wings and instigating the formation of a cyclone off the coast of Indonesia. By that I mean, news of the world, rumours, competitors situations, industry announcements, a major player changing their view or strategy and general reading of the bones can all affect a share price without ryhme or reason, it doesn't have to be rational, there maybe rules but I either cannot find them, or cannot read font size .01

Somebody sells a large parcel of shares due to a need for cash elsewhere within their business or someone is settling a deceased estate, prices drop slightly and some market mad analyst who is snacking on guarana biscuits and wired on coffee and red-bull chasers thinks its a sign of the three horsemen approaching also gets on board, the market drops again, others jump on board, the market drops again, stop-losses and triggers are fired, the market drops again.....

Bargain hunters, value investors and traders may step in at any point along this journey or subsequent uptrend if/as/when it fits their strategy, or just possibly ..........some blissfully unaware joe bloe receives cash from a settled estate or payment of a business debt, decides to invest it into the stock market and the whole cycle reverses

Me I'm still working out how to maximize my returns and minimize my losses and how to work a trade size calculator, whilst watching the ticker-tape flicker from green to red and back in amazement

Madness...and highly entertaining, you gotta love it ;)
 
I find that on the forum shares feedback is more esoteric (word for the day) than straightforward as it is with feedback on any property issues here; I much prefer reading through the feedback here though, than some of the share forums..... so thanks to those that contribute
 
Bloody ipad auto correct (and pre morning coffee). It should read:

"I used to post about specific share results"

I used to most about deification share results but stopped as I didn't want to be seen as pump and dumper. Or be giving peope advice, even indirectly.

What I meant tho is that a lot of people make posts about the stock market but the posts have no substance and it's clear beside a few people on here, the posters have no experience (and/or success) with the stock market.

Beside that, I have posted my stock market philosophy many times. Most recently in ths thread. Whats yours?
 
I used to most about deification share results but stopped as I didn't want to be seen as pump and dumper. Or be giving peope advice, even indirectly.

What I meant tho is that a lot of people make posts about the stock market but the posts have no substance and it's clear beside a few people on here, the posters have no experience (and/or success) with the stock market.

Beside that, I have posted my stock market philosophy many times. Most recently in ths thread. Whats yours?

Oh no your percentage return over a period of years would be fine I’m not after your stock selections.
I understand where you are coming from with people’s comments with little or no experience.
We invested for income which has turned pretty well over years, so we usually look long term. We also use options for cash flow and to buy shares we want, this has certainly boosted the dividend income over the years.

Although we are going through one now “LDW” that was selected when the market thought it was crap, which is in a bidding war now. We bought that thinking I knew better, turns out we did. Seems we won't be holding that long term.
 
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Since there was an interest in Tesco shares above, here's a comment from the BBC today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17383241

Short version: The business is having problems in the UK, and the top man is taking direct control of this unit, along with his other responsibilities, in an attempt to fix it.

thanks for the link Graemsay. But to me these are still operational issues rather than structural issues. However operational issues can still take time to work themselves through, maybe several years. During this time the Mr Market with his typical short term view, could well price Tesco shares accordingly.

I am quite happy to sit on my positions, its not significant relative to the whole portfolio so i don't feel any pressure. I have no intention in adding to the position yet, unless the share price falls significantly from its current price. If this happens then i will assess based on information at that time.

By the way for the international shares i have to be more 'traditional' in my strategy than for Australian shares.

I can't use Evands strategy because i dont have access to live trading. I have to place my orders Australian time that then are placed overnight for the European markets.

Not that my adaption of Evands strategy would effect Tesco. Its shares are basically trending flat, and thats fine by me.
 
I found this thread quite interesting. Lots of talk about the share market, and as usual some people after the "hot tip".

It did seem that people getting some of the concepts a little mixed. Although as in property, there are staunch proponents for both sides of the fence (fundamental analysis vs. technical analysis).

A pure fundamentalist ie. Warren Buffet does not look at a price chart and hence would not have a profit stop. This is a purely technical term. The fundamental share investor does research on the company and bits based on this fundamental research, and holds until something about the company fundamentally changes.

A technician buys a stock based on the price chart and places stop losses and profit stops.

QUESTION: did the original purpose if the thread get answered?
 
QUESTION: did the original purpose if the thread get answered?

Locate the next ten-bagger (or bigger) and back it to the hilt :D

I believe that FMG went through a few transformations/ incarnations/ regenerations to become the company it is now. I had heard of someone who had shares at 10c, though the charts show a low of around 0.03c , they then went up to a price of around $120.00 or so before it split 10:1 and was recently hovering around $6.00 (or $60.00 if you had 10:1).
 
Hi All,

Thanks for all the wonderful posts/discussions and sorry for taking so long to respond. Some of the posts were off topic so I kind of lost track/interest at one point. But I've since read up on some other threads (e.g. keithj's awesome thread) and an awesome thread on LICs on SharesGuru (http://www.sharesguru.com/listed-investment-companies-1607.html) and right now I'm leaning towards LICs as opposed to ETFs.

As mentioned earlier I'm not looking to make a quick buck. Rather I'm trying to build up my asset base as safely as possible. Given I'm a newbie at share market I'm liking the idea of LICs. Instant Diversification. Low cost < 0.20%. Fully Franked Dividends. Strong track record and they hold little/no debt.

If my sums are correct, MLT is trading at a 10% discount to pre-tax NTA and grossed up yield is almost 8% (I included the special dividend in my calculation; is this prudent?)

So my napkin plan at the moment for the next couple of years is:
- Use spare cash to purchase stock in LICs - AFI/ARG/MLT only. Buy whichever one is undervalued at the time of purchase.
- No leverage at this stage
- Dollar cost average down in this bear market
- Reinvest dividends via SPP
- Continue researching on ETFs and LPT - consider whether these are valuable to include in the portfolio

Also I'm thinking of cashing out my managed funds (they're charging 2% MER for heavens sakes) and using the proceeds to fund the initial LIC purchase.

Of course, this is not going to make me rich overnight, but I'm looking at a 20-30 year timespan. If I get more confident in the sharemarket I'll consider using leverage to speed things up :)

Keen to hear your thoughts! :)

-dajackal
 
Its not a secret wealth through shares, like wealth through property would seem to be via Capital Growth or Yield; a mixture of both would be great ;)

Yield in the case would be your dividends

I started reading that link Dajackal and had to skip ahead to page 77, thats one looong thread :eek:

There are some interesting posts on SS re LIC's Index Funds and ETF's also by various members

I would still keep some play money out for individual stocks, but thats just me
 
Oh wow thread resurrected! I can't believe it's already been over 3 years.

I thought I'd give a quick update on where I'm at. Been building up my share portfolio slowly over the past 3 years whilst continuing to read and learn. Bought two Brisbane IPs in 2014, and more recently decided to turbo charge my share portfolio by deploying all remaining equity from my Sydney IPs.

Share purchases have been the major Aussie-LICs, an aussie index fund, and an international index fund.

Time will tell whether I made the right move but I'm cautiously optimistic :)
 
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Oh wow thread resurrected! I can't believe it's already been over 3 years.

I thought I'd give a quick update on where I'm at. Been building up my share portfolio slowly over the past 3 years whilst continuing to read and learn. Bought two Brisbane IPs in 2014, and more recently decided to turbo charge my share portfolio by deploying all remaining equity from my Sydney IPs.

Share purchases have been the major Aussie-LICs, an aussie index fund, and an international index fund.

Time will tell whether I made the right move but I'm cautiously optimistic :)


Great to hear an update, dajackal. You've been really busy! Did you buy any shares back in 2012 when you posted the thread? You would have seen some great gains if you did. (No doubt your Sydney IP's have done really well too!)

Regards Jason.
 
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