Advice for kitchen reno

[Sunsweet]

Hi all, I have been reading these forums for quite a long time and this is my first post. I hope you don't mind me asking but I need some expert advice and guidance.

I am looking at renovating my nearly 40 year old kitchen. I've had some plans drawn with specs and now am in the process of getting some quotes. Like others, I am trying to restrict the budget. The designer thought that we could concentrate on cheaper cupboards and then have a little extra to spend on the finishes, eg stone benchtops. The suggested material for the cupboards is Wilsonart fine stipple.

One of the people I have taken the plans told me that this is not a great material and that I should consider vinyl wrap. I have also read lots of forums that say vinyl wrap blisters. He said he doesn't like or use the fine stipple as it leaves marks and stains whereas the vinyl wrap is a better product. The designer recommended the laminate as he wasn't keen on the vinyl wrap. If I went with the vinyl wrap I would only go for the satin finish as the glossy would be too modern for the house and me.

I am totally confused. Could someone enlighten me as to what is the difference between the two and which is the better product to go for. Apparently the cost is not much different. After spending 1,000s I would like to see a quality product that may last for a long time.

Many thanks for your time.

Sunsweet

 

[Chic not shabby]

Hi
I don't really know the difference though I can say years ago I had a laminate bench top (which was called a leather finish) which was a very light colour. It did get stains and marks on it which no cleaner would remove. The only thing that would get them off was by mixing up a paste of bicarbonate of soda and water and rubbing it into the stain. You do have to rinse it off well otherwise there is a chalky residue. It doesnt damage the laminate but sort of scrubs it clean.The only problem was by doing one little spot the rest of the bench top would look grubby so you would have to do the whole lot! Once I did all of it, it would bring it up like new. I have told others about this and they have had great success with removing stains from their bench tops. One lady had tried everything even bleach to no avail and was about to replace the whole benchtop but was overjoyed to find she could remove the stains and it looked as good as new.You are talking about cupboard fronts though which would not get as dirty as a bench top. The house I live in now has primrose yellow cupboard doors. When the house was for sale the blinds in the kitchen were always drawn. The reason for this I believe was because they didn't want to highlight that the doors were stained (with what I believe to be tea) I knew it would come off with my method and it did and they look great. Laminate is a great hardwearing product and you won't have any issues especially next to things like ovens etc

 

[Sunsweet]

Thanks, you have made me think about my current kitchen that has mission brown laminex doors and a white laminex benchtop. I have never had any issues with cleaning this and has lasted a long time. The only time I've had a problem was when I put a hot coffee percolator on the bench and it left a burn mark on it, my mistake.

The guy said that using laminate would cost more in labour as he had to put joints around the edges to finish it off and that the strips would eventually peel off. That has not happened to my cupboards but again maybe the materials now are not as hardy as they used to be. He was being very persuasive not to go with this resulting in my confusion.

 

[DaveM]

Laminate doors (wilsonart are a laminate maker like laminex and others) are very hard wearing. Fine stipple refers to the laminate finish type with a slightly rough/pockmarked finish.

Vinyl wrap (also known as vac formed) are not as hard wearing as laminate, they used to lift off years ago but modern manufacturing and bonding agents/glues make this really a rarity when you buy from a well reputed vinyl wrap door manufacturer (most kitchen places buy the doors in from the likes of Polytec).

Polyurethane is the "upmarket" finish and the worst wearing of the three as it is a two pack paint finish and will scratch/chip. However it allows for things like door edge handles and recessed handles as there are no laminates/vinyls to worry about with their inability to do 90 degree turns.

If budget is a main consideration, laminate doors and stone benchtops are a good choice. It does not cost much more to add a 40mm profile to stone benchtops vs 20mm, looks much nicer. Shop around as I got quotes between $3000 and $5500 for the same benchtop when I did my kitchen a few years ago. Buying direct from stone masons is much cheaper than through a kitchen company.

 

[TMNT]

Laminate doors (wilsonart are a laminate maker like laminex and others) are very hard wearing. Fine stipple refers to the laminate finish type with a slightly rough/pockmarked finish.

Vinyl wrap (also known as vac formed) are not as hard wearing as laminate, they used to lift off years ago but modern manufacturing and bonding agents/glues make this really a rarity when you buy from a well reputed vinyl wrap door manufacturer (most kitchen places buy the doors in from the likes of Polytec).

Polyurethane is the "upmarket" finish and the worst wearing of the three as it is a two pack paint finish and will scratch/chip. However it allows for things like door edge handles and recessed handles as there are no laminates/vinyls to worry about with their inability to do 90 degree turns.

If budget is a main consideration, laminate doors and stone benchtops are a good choice. It does not cost much more to add a 40mm profile to stone benchtops vs 20mm, looks much nicer. Shop around as I got quotes between $3000 and $5500 for the same benchtop when I did my kitchen a few years ago. Buying direct from stone masons is much cheaper than through a kitchen company.

Dave, are you referring to laminate and twopac cabinet finishes?

I'm not familiar with the difference or terminology however got confused when I went to buntings and they only ad poly euro thane

Where does each one rank ?

 

[DaveM]

In terms of hard wearing-ness, Laminate is better than vac form which is better than polyurethane.

Polyurethane has become the "norm" for owner occupiers as its seen as more high spec, despite being the least hard wearing... as a two pack painted surface it can/will chip.

For rentals I do laminate as it is near indestructible.

 

[Sunsweet]

Hi Dave,

It's good to hear something positive with the fine stipple. The colour I have chosen is in a matt beige tone. Does fine stipple come in matt, satin and gloss and do they all have that rough/pockmarked finish? I can't seem to find anything on line regarding this. I wouldn't choose floor tiles that have indentations because they would be harder to keep clean. Would this same theory apply to the fine stipple doors and drawers? Maybe I need to see someone's kitchen with the fine stipple before making a decision. I thought I had this sorted.

You can see a mile away that I'm not in know with these type of things....

 

[Chic not shabby]

The "leather" finish laminate bench top I had was a rough finish.

 

[Chic not shabby]

Check out this site & thread


http://www.decoratingforum.com.au/showthread.php?5363-Polyurethane-V-Laminate&highlight=Laminate

 

[TMNT]

In terms of hard wearing-ness, Laminate is better than vac form which is better than polyurethane.

Polyurethane has become the "norm" for owner occupiers as its seen as more high spec, despite being the least hard wearing... as a two pack painted surface it can/will chip.

For rentals I do laminate as it is near indestructible.

Thanks dave

In terms of quality or perceived quality how would you rank them?

Eg what would a 10m penthouse have?

 

[DaveM]

Laminate is typically the cheapest and seen as entry level (though there are a few mobs around doinig really good value poly kitchens at less than laminate prices).

Vac form/vinyl wrap in gloss finish is what I used in my PPOR when I redid the kitchen, photo below. It has taken a back seat to poly these days as the cost of poly has really dropped.

For more upmarket places, and general PPOR polyurethane is the norm and typically expected.

 

[TMNT]

looks good dave,

I spoke to a sales agent and they said 2 pac (sp?) is the top of the range but once chipped cannot be fixed, and most of hte higherend places are now using a higher end vinyl wrap, even though its cheaper, the finish isnt too bad and most importantly its easier to clean, is this about right?

EDIT so I gather that 2pac and polyeurathane is the same thing? that hard stuff that looks great but chips and cant be fixed, which is the stuff they ahve at bunnings?

 

[neK]

Ive used polyurethane in my IP. Looks as good today as it did 9 years ago.

During that period I've had 9 tenants.

 

[Renomart]

Be very careful with vinyl doors.

I have been to countless kitchens where the vinyl has de-laminated from the door substrate after 8-10 years.

Problem areas are...

Doors / panels either side of dishwasher
Doors / panels either side of the oven (make sure heat shields are fitted)
Doors / panels above toasters and kettles
Doors / panels either side of rangehood above the cooktop (use a rangehood larger than the cooktop)

 

[Made_Man]

We got out kitchen done not long ago and we went with the Polly finish on the doors and 40mm Caesarstone bench top. once we worked out the price to have the upmarket material it was a no-brainier.

out of interest what size kitchen you doing and what did you get quoted