Advice Needed on purchasing a property without a final

[Looky]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to the forum and have been reviewing a few posts on some who have had issues with purchasing properties without a final council inspection being passed. I was hoping I could get some advice from others out there who know more about this not having a final or 149D Certificates.

The story is we found a large home recently and loved it, so we offered and the offer was accepted. We found out that in 2001 the current owners put through plans to council to build a carport and an extension on the home which was approved to go ahead. This extension includes a kitchen (there is also a kitchen downstairs, the home has two entries and is like a dual occupany property) they got a builder to build these additions.

The council approved the frames but then a final was never carried out. When we found out the additions to the home didn't have a final we asked the vendors to obtain one, they agreed they would get a final as they didn't even realize that it hadn't been done. apparently the owners father organised the original additions and she now owns the home and had no idea of the procedures etc.

After the owner spoke with council I was called by the agent advising me that the council originally approved the extension to have a wet bar and not a kitchen! And for the owner to get a final it would mean that the oven would need to be removed from the kitchen.

We decided to go to the council today and ask them what needs to be done to actually get a final as we are really not too fussed about having two kitchens and are more than happy to remove the oven to get that done. The council told us that because so many years have passed it's not as easy to get a final and that we could always get the vendors to obtain 149D certificates on the carport and extension which would mean the structure is approved as being fine and they won't make us demolish it for 7 years.

We also requested the vendors complete a records request so that we can view the plans of the original extensions they put to the council to see exactly what they added to the property.

We would love any feedback/advice from others that know more about this type of thing and if you would still buy a home if you don't have a final but the other things I mentioned. There seems to be alot of properties on the Central Coast like this. The house we offered on before this one also didn't have a final and he flat out refused to get one so we didn't proceed.

 

[moyjos]

Find out what cost is involved in obtaining the correct approvals and discount the sale price by that cost plus 10% as a contingency fund.

As an aside...please use some paragraphs in your posts. Your post as it is now is quite difficult to read.

 

[Looky]

Thanks so much moyjos. I have no idea why I couldn't see how hard it was to read my post without paragraphs!

I'm a little slow and don't understand the 10% contingency fund. Could you give me an example please? Would it mean that I deduct 10% of the sale price and offer that?

 

[Pa1nter]

Example:
If the price of the house is 300K,
Costs to get a final is 5k,
10% of 5K is another $500,
Therefore $294,500 offered ,

 

[Looky]

Thanks Pa1nter! I appreciate your example. Does anyone know if after 11 years a final not being done if council can decide to visit and ask to inspect the property and makes us get a final by force even if it means changing/demolishing things?

 

[pennyk]

Thanks Pa1nter! I appreciate your example. Does anyone know if after 11 years a final not being done if council can decide to visit and ask to inspect the property and makes us get a final by force even if it means changing/demolishing things?

We built a pergola and didnt realise you needed to get council to sign off once it was done. they rang at least 5 years after we'd finished it to follow up whether we'd done the work. When they came to do the inspection, there were some things which didnt comply with the building code, and the builders had to come back and fix them.

 

[Looky]

Thanks Penny. That's what is a little concerning for us. We wouldn't mind too much if council ended up coming around and saying to fix a few things but if it's a huge amount of work that would be stressful! We are going to view the original plans that council approved and see if it matches the house. The fact that the framework was approved is at least a good thing, I hope.

 

[Pa1nter]

I would imagine after 11 years it would be exempt,

 

[Looky]

I do hope we could be exempt after that many years. It's hard for us to just take a risk and not worry about it. We do everything by the book and this is he first time we are going to just go with it even knowing it could become a big job for us later.

 

[marg4000]

If you buy the property without the correct council paperwork, then you are taking on the problem.

It may be easily solved, it may not.

And the problem won't go away, one day you will want to sell and the issue will raise its ugly head again. Over time, council regulations tend to become more restricting (and fees tend to rise) so the sooner you get approval the better.

Personally, I would ask the vendor to remove the oven (if that is all it takes) and get the approval, which means any additional fees will be paid by the vendor.

I'm concerned when you say that "the council won't make you demolish it for 7 years" - does that mean that after 7 years you may have to demolish?
Marg

 

[Looky]

You are right Marg, it would become our problem and there is no way of knowing if it will become a big problem or nothing ends up happening if we also never bother to get a final. We've now found out the vendors won't get the 149D certificates because the council may request them to remove the whole kitchen and they obviously don't want to do that. We've renegotiated the price now. We will see what the original plans put into council look like then decide after that.

 

[travelbug]

We built a garage and didn't get approval. When we went to sell (years later) they came out and approved it. We were worried about the toilet we put in there but they didn't see it.

We also looked at a house where the owners had built a granny flat. The owners said it was approved and showed paperwork. The sale fell through because the original purchaser went to council to see if it was approved. The paperwork was to build the garage but did not get the final inspection (because it was not approved as a granny flat). Council went out and made them remove the kitchen. Pity it was lovely with lined walls and little courtyard, But now that council knows about it it would be targetted.

I also went to another house last week that had an approved granny flat but also an illegal one under the house (no windows, ceiling too low). Apparently someone at council saw the add for a tenant and went out and made them rip the kitchen out.
I think some people don't get the final on purpose.

 

[Looky]

Thanks for your experience Travelbug. It's great to read what others have been through!

It's hard to know why the previous owners didn't get a final done. The vendor is saying her father did it and she had no idea of the process etc but of course she could be lying.

When we spoke to the building guy (sorry I don't know the job title) at the council he seemed very nice and helpful with providing the info we needed. It's annoying that after 11 years without a final the council would bother but that's life and rules need to be followed. So I know the worst could happen.

The hard thing is deciding if we want to take the risk or not. We can't then be surprised Or really upset if they end up telling us to rip it down as we knew what we were getting ourselves into. I'll also be calling our home building insurer tomorrow to ask if they insure homes with no final on extensions.

 

[Looky]

Change of plans

So after much consideration and research we've requested that the vendors provide the following if not we won't proceed with the purchase.

proof/paperwork of inspections for the following in regards to the extension;

Plumbing
Sewer
Electrical
Stormwater
As well as the frames, braces being signed off during the inspection when it was being built. If the vendors cannot produce any of the evidence that these things were done to standard and approved we will not be able to proceed.

We've decided that there will always be another house to buy. I highly doubt the vendors have any of the above because they probably would have told us this before. Oh well, back to looking for a new home!

 

[Looky]

The vendors couldn't produce any of the paperwork we requested so we decided not to go ahead. Although we were disappointed we won't be buying that particular house we do feel relaxed about it now.

Thanks to all of you for posting. It really helps to have other peoples thoughts and experiences.