Advice/ thoughts needed on an EASEMENT

[BestInvest]

HI All,

There is a property, a fibro house in need of solid TLC/ painting etc on a good size block of land (600m square), amongst apartments. Next door is a house, the whole of the surroundings are apartments. So location is perfect etc.

The agent said that if down teh track you combine it with next door, a developer would buy it off you for the land to build a block of 12 apartments.

Only problem is that the land has an easement going through it...... HOW bad is this issue?.... i think it will mean no underground carpark which might still be ok, but can it still be built over? Is this what needs encasing with more concrete and you can build over it?....and so its an economic thing where it means *****loads of concrete must be spent to make this land usable? rough prices per metre?

Im thinking that because of the easement, thats why no developer has to date been interested in this property.


The other thing was, i was gonna put a granny in the back, and the rental i would get for this plus the fibro house at the front would be EXCELLENT, but it would be good to know whether the land would have a prospect for an apartment or if it is a dud in that regards........

I have attached the Drainage diagram...... and a copy of the title, im nots sure where to read about that folio reference?

Appreciate your views/ insights/ objectivity.........

 

[Propertunity]

That sort of placement for an easement can be an absolute disaster for trying to do any sort of development on your block.

2 things:
1. Your idea of a granny flat out back is probably a good one.
2. A clever designer may well be able to design around it. Go see a couple of them and see what they come up with.

 

[BestInvest]

Hi Propertunity,

Thanks for your reply.

The granny flat idea is really good. However I want to know if it is theoretically possible to build over the easement, as an apartment, no matter how clever a designer, would have to fall over that easement area.

When looking at the property from the street, on RHS is an apartment, all properties along the back fence are apartments.

The property on LHS is semi decent house, and every other lot is an apartment.

I am sure the easement has turned many people off in previous years, and possible in the present, except maybe me who seems to have rosey glasses on, i dont want to be a sucker. (ofcourse i would consult council etc if i took any further steps), but first step i want peoples ideas as i may be placing too much significane on this block based on things that may not be able to be done with it (aside form a granny).

 

[Fourex]

I agree you are thinking of some good strategies but I think you might need to find a block that meets your requirements as well as the local council requirements with what you are trying to do.

Normally a block that has development potential and is underpriced in the market goes very quickly as like yourself there are many others looking for what you are and when they find it they buy it.

I would consider going to council and trying to bend the rules with some planning requiements however trying to build over an Easement would be last on my list.

Cheers,

Fourex.

 

[Aaron_C]

I would consider going to council and trying to bend the rules with some planning requiements however trying to build over an Easement would be last on my list.

Fourex let's be serious for a second here.......you can barely even get a planning application through these days that DOES comply with the rules - how will you ever convince council to bend one?

 

[BestInvest]

Is there a specific section within council i should ask for when i call them?

 

[Macca]

Looking at the diagram it shows the easement continuing onto the next lot, so to do a development using both blocks with an easement right through both of them is really tough IMO.

Too Hard

 

[LJW]

It may be possible to build over an easement, depending on who it is in favour of and what conditions are placed on the easement. It looks like the easement is for drainage purposes so there is probably a stormwater pipe that runs through the site (and adjoining lots). You can obtain a copy of the easement document from the relevant state govt department (DERM in QLD. Not sure about NSW). Alternatively, it can be done online although you may need to set up an account:

http://www.espreon.com/property-services/land-information-services/default.htm

Liam

 

[BestInvest]

Thanks for the replies.

It is a drainange easement in favour of the Local Council, and i can see a drain lid on the right most edge of the land (looking from the st), so there would be a drain under there.

The way it runs across this property it ruins even being able to build a normal house on it, whereas next door, it runs through it such that they have built a decent house, and in the rhs back corner, theres a granny.

Its a shame, as the drainage easement destroys the massive potental of this block. I was even thinking if the the drain could be moved along the side edge and back fence of the property, unsure if a) thats possible b) costs involved (would imagine massive).........?

I had a look at the online form to ëxtinguish an easement", but it appears you have to be the land owner (which makes sense), so until i have bought the land i cant test this (at which point it would be too late).

Are there any drainage experts on here from Sydney who would confirm/ or rebut the above...... so that i know if there is any hope of pursuing this further?

 

[Fourex]

BestInvest,

You might find all parties who have a vested interest in the Easement will have to agreed to extinguish the Easement (such as both land owners). So I would consult with all the parties before testing to extinguish the Easement.

Aaron C. I will be the first to agree the planning assessment by council for developers is crap. I would only ever proceed with a Code Assessable application for any future developments.

I have however persisted with Council and have put through an Impact Assessable Application bending the rules. It did cause a blow out in holding costs and my timeframe but I was able to convince council to bend one (actually I think it was two in the end).

Sorry if you not have been so lucky yourself.

Cheers,

Fourex.

 

[brazen]

It may be possible to build over an easement, depending on who it is in favour of and what conditions are placed on the easement. It looks like the easement is for drainage purposes so there is probably a stormwater pipe that runs through the site (and adjoining lots). You can obtain a copy of the easement document from the relevant state govt department (DERM in QLD. Not sure about NSW). Alternatively, it can be done online although you may need to set up an account:

http://www.espreon.com/property-services/land-information-services/default.htm

Liam

You can never, ever (ever) build directly over a DRAINAGE EASEMENT.

You can, however, build over a SEWER EASEMENT but it costs approx $1,000 per linear meter for concrete encasement of the Sewer pipe. If you build within 600mm of that Sewer Easement, it costs about $1,200 for paper monkeys (Coordinator, Engineer, Draftsperson) to do their thing and the new structure's concrete piers must then be dug as deep as the Sewer Depth (actually works on Pythagforas' Theorom, with proximity increasing depth of piers..) but you can build over it.

Looking at your Sewer Location Print, I see the Drainage Easement running transversley across the block, which limits but does not disqualify future development. The Sewer's depth is not on this print, only the pipe diameter and distances to junctoins etc are notated.

Careful panning can mitigate these burdens.

Cheers,

Serge.

 

[BestInvest]

Thanks for the discussion fellow SS's. The agent has advised me the house is under contract now =(... Maybe a blessing in disguise for me.
So that easement is for a drainage easement (for rainwater) which is different to sewer easement i assume. How have they built the rhs corner of the house on the easement?

 

[brazen]

Thanks for the discussion fellow SS's. The agent has advised me the house is under contract now =(... Maybe a blessing in disguise for me.
So that easement is for a drainage easement (for rainwater) which is different to sewer easement i assume. How have they built the rhs corner of the house on the easement?

It may have been built before the legislation was formed otherwise the easement might make at turn at that point perhaps?

 

[LJW]

You can never, ever (ever) build directly over a DRAINAGE EASEMENT.

That's not necessarily correct. You can often site minor development (garages/carports etc) over drainage infrastructure, with the required building over easement permit.

 

[brazen]

That's not necessarily correct. You can often site minor development (garages/carports etc) over drainage infrastructure, with the required building over easement permit.

Not to my knowledge.
Structures of any kind aren't allowed to be built over Registered Drainage Easements as far as my 12+ years planning/development experience tells me. God knows Ive tried (Garages and Carports included) and the answer from Councils is always a resounding NO.

I'm talking about NSW here. I have no idea what other state Councils say on the matter.
If you google it (for NSW) you'll also see that no Councils will allow ANY BUILDING whatsoever to be built over a drainage easement; they cant even overhang slightly.

 

[HotRod]

My father-in-laws place in Mt Lawley has a sewer that runs across the middle of his block.

The back of adjacent blocks have been subdivided and built on, but the sewer has to be encased with a stucture to protect it and allow acxess and I guess eventual repair if required.

Not cheap, but it can be done here in WA.

 

[Jake D]

Sewer and stormwater easements are very different in this regard, Hotrod. My experience is in WA, but I imagine it's probably relevant elsewhere, too. AS far as drainage goes, it is as Brazen says, or worse.

Sewer (in WA) is controlled by Water Corporation which have very specific guidelines for how to build near or over their assets, which, when designed properly and accordingly can be approved quickly and easily. They also have good records of what the assets are and the reason for the easement.

Stormwater can be controlled by local or state government, (or Water Corp) who quite often have no policy, don't know the policy, don't know the details of the asset or service the easement is in favour of, or don't even know why the easement is there.

In my experience, the last scenario isn't even rare. Quite often we would come up against DA or BL requirements to "not build too close to the easement". When investigating how close we can get, why, how we can protect the asset, etc. We'd often find that council had no idea why the easement was even there.

 

[LJW]

I'm talking about NSW here. I have no idea what other state Councils say on the matter.

Ahh ok. In QLD and Vic you are able to.