Andrew Bolt ... Free speech goes down.

jaycee


I think you're missing the sarcasm:eek:

What sarcasm do you speak of ?

Won't be the first time I've ever missed anything, but I am not sure if there was / is much sarcasm here - see sunfish's last reply, now I can see where he's coming from more than when I responded to his previous post (and relax we're reacting to written words in posts not the perwon whom we don't know).. .but nowhere do I see him suggest he was being sarcastic, in fact I read his last post as furthering the point he made in the post I repsodned to & you called sarcastic :confused:

perhaps sunfish can tell us both if he was or was not being sarcastic
 
I was drawing attention to the fact that Ideo's post was abusive, but because he was abusing "the majority" that's OK.

Don't you see the irony?
 
Dazz was right. This turns into a Left v Right argument everytime.

Our established view of the world (I'm resisting using the word paradigm with all of my might) has been formed over our entire lives and is the sum total of our upbringing, our experiences, our reading, and the people we mix with, listen to and interact with.

It cannot be changed at the drop of a hat. What someone writes or links to is usually a drop in the ocean compared with the weight of our view on the world.

There is usually large inspiration taken from successful exponents of our left / right views. If you are a lefty for example, then some successful guru in whatever field floats your boat and you acknowledge as inspirational will resonate heavily with you....and well, harping and name calling from someone you don't know espousing the opposite view won't carry much weight at all


We've seen this over and over, in many threads over many years....it never changes.


  • I call someone lazy, the other person calls him cool and relaxed.
  • I call someone courageous, the other person calls him a risk taker.
  • I call someone confident, the other person calls him arrogant and pig headed.
  • I call someone focussed, the other person calls him narrow minded.
  • I call someone successful, the other person calls him a capitalist pig.
  • I call someone smelly, the other person calls him wonderfully exotic
  • I call someone a litterbug, the other person punches me.
  • I view it as scribble that a 3 year could do, the other person calls it high art.
  • I support employers, they support employees.
  • I call it an old cluncker, they call it economical transport.
  • I call it dangerous, they call it exhilirating.

It goes on and on and on....







Bolt and his employer printed untruths about nine or ten people, and they took him to court, which is their right. That Bolt got his facts VERY wrong was a major factor in the court finding against him.


Not sure I agree with this dan. Reading most of the links that OO posted, and the actual words of the limp wristed wet handbag judge, I don't subscribe to his definition of what constitutes that to which he relies upon as exactly what defines Aboriginality.


Time after time, he castigated and 'corrected' Bolt as his comments being wrong, but didn't define exactly what he definitively relied upon what constitutes calling oneself an Aboriginal. Bolt's comments clearly delineated a certain blood percentage as proof of being Aboriginal. That's what underscored Bolt's written article. The judge clearly disagreed....he was working off a different definition, obviously the same one that the Plaintiff was using.


Some time back, being a "full blood" was Aboriginal. Everything else wasn't. That was the norm. That's what all of Australian society recognised. Now apparently that has changed, and whomever decides these things ?????, apparently it doesn't matter what blood content you have, supposedly you can be born to Icelandic parents and be an albino, but if you merely consider yourself to be an Aboriginal, take a totem, and Aboriginal communities accept you....then apparently you are.


When did the courts representing HM the Queen and the Govt decide that was OK ??


Reading through the texts of the court, this seems to be the fundamental sticking point. Bolt's fact called people with a certain fraction of blood (16th, 32nd, 64th, 128ths) blood not Aboriginal, the judge disagreed and called his 'fact' incorrect. Given that, I'm very much inclining to agreeing with Bolt's facts, and calling the judge wrong.


But then, I view the world very very differently to most judges.
 
He is a lowest common denominator shock jock.

Nothing more.

He is designed to incite the proles into outrage over the liberalleftyelististsocialistchampagnesippersgayrightsantfamilygreenytreehugger types.

Shame that people who consider themselves smarter than average believe his tripe.

You are attacking the majority there Ideo.

The Dutchman Sunfish? The racist *******s. I hope he takes them to court over that.

Dazz: apparently it doesn't matter what blood content you have, supposedly you can be born to Icelandic parents and be an albino, but if you merely consider yourself to be an Aboriginal, take a totem, and Aboriginal communities accept you....then apparently you are.

I have an English passport because of my adopted English parents. I skip queues flying around the UK and then when I go to places like Turkey, Egypt etc...I swap back to my Aussie passport because they like Aussies better over there than the English. Oops sorry, I think I was a bit racist there.:rolleyes:

Never mind that I was born in New Zealand ha ha.

Regards JO
 
Interesting post Dazz, and yes, I'm sure you and the judges don't always see eye to eye.

I read it as Bolt decided that the 'fair skinned Aboriginals' were choosing to be Aboriginal for financial gain. He wasn't just questioning their Aboriginality.

Those that gave evidence were able to prove to the court that they had been raised Aboriginal, and not merely made a choice. This seems to have been a significant factor in the court finding against Bolt and HWT.

I wonder if Bolt had just questioned their Aboriginality, rather than questioning their motives, would they have had a case? I don't know...
 
Bolt's fact called people with a certain fraction of blood (16th, 32nd, 64th, 128ths) blood not Aboriginal, the judge disagreed and called his 'fact' incorrect. Given that, I'm very much inclining to agreeing with Bolt's facts, and calling the judge wrong.

Exactly.

Where does it end? 1/100th.....FFS :rolleyes:

The other factor in this is PERCEPTION.

People can bleat on all they like that they are "aboriginal" - or should we be saying "indigenous" otherwise be sued these days? - but if you look white, it is very hard for the majority of folk to see you as otherwise - unless you jump up and down proclaiming it until you annoy the beejeezuz out of everyone.

And then; no-one will believe you, and maybe rightly so?

Lots of hangers-on, milking a loop-hole, for mine.
 
Interesting post Dazz, and yes, I'm sure you and the judges don't always see eye to eye.

I read it as Bolt decided that the 'fair skinned Aboriginals' were choosing to be Aboriginal for financial gain. He wasn't just questioning their Aboriginality.

Those that gave evidence were able to prove to the court that they had been raised Aboriginal, and not merely made a choice. This seems to have been a significant factor in the court finding against Bolt and HWT.

I wonder if Bolt had just questioned their Aboriginality, rather than questioning their motives, would they have had a case? I don't know...

Probably not ?

I read it the same way. Didn't they also find that the "fact" about the ancestors of those he spoke about were found to be "wrong".

What do we call something that is wrong but presented as if it's a fact called again ?
 
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They were pointing out his ridiculous double standards. But you cant just take 2 words out of context from a whole article.

The Sydney Morning Herald called him the "Lying Dutchman". So "Yes" you can be "objectionable and offensive" to non-blacks. Is this not racist?
 
Because the case wasn't about that.

Time after time, he castigated and 'corrected' Bolt as his comments being wrong, but didn't define exactly what he definitively relied upon what constitutes calling oneself an Aboriginal.
 
hang on. don't Aboriginals get free hand outs because they are viewed by certain left elements to be racially unequal?

Then someone who is 1/16th Aboriginal by race should only be entitled to 1/16th the free handouts and easy opportunities as someone 16/16ths Aboriginal.

If someone wants to argue it isn't just about race but also culture, culture isn't genetic, so isn't a hardwired source of inequality and disadvantage. Let them overcome the cultural challenge underclasses of every race encounter.

If Lefties want to consider Aboriginal culture disadvantageous, then why the hell do they celebrate and glorify it so?
 
hang on. don't Aboriginals get free hand outs because they are viewed by certain left elements to be racially unequal?

Then someone who is 1/16th Aboriginal by race should only be entitled to 1/16th the free handouts and easy opportunities as someone 16/16ths Aboriginal.

If someone wants to argue it isn't just about race but also culture, culture isn't genetic, so isn't a hardwired source of inequality and disadvantage. Let them overcome the cultural challenge underclasses of every race encounter.

If Lefties want to consider Aboriginal culture disadvantageous, then why the hell do they celebrate and glorify it so?

who are you ranting to ?
 
Interesting post Dazz, and yes, I'm sure you and the judges don't always see eye to eye.

I read it as Bolt decided that the 'fair skinned Aboriginals' were choosing to be Aboriginal for financial gain. He wasn't just questioning their Aboriginality.

Those that gave evidence were able to prove to the court that they had been raised Aboriginal, and not merely made a choice. This seems to have been a significant factor in the court finding against Bolt and HWT.

I wonder if Bolt had just questioned their Aboriginality, rather than questioning their motives, would they have had a case? I don't know...

Exactly Dan, if he had done his research, bothered to gather up facts....instead of his habit of just spewing forth nonsense. And because he has his Pauline Hanson-type cult following...it all snowballs from there, (as you can see some of the responses here).

Hence the litigation.
 
They were pointing out his ridiculous double standards. But you cant just take 2 words out of context from a whole article.

Has anyone got the whole article? I don't read it like that either, Evan. I agree with Sunfish.

Probably the only thing we can all agree on is that ALL journalists are pretty sloppy these days yet:

Andrew Bolt's freedom of speech is particularly targeted because his rants...unlike most other journalistic rants - have attacked, not the Afghans, not the Iraqi's, not even the rude French...but Aboriginals. And from a man who will clearly not be scared by Gillard's rant at editor John Hartigan and
Glenn Milne's subsequent sacking from ABC Insight.

I'd like to see Gillard and Swan sacked for their "hysterically inaccurate claims" that they would not bring in a CO2 Tax. But then they are politicians and sadly to 74% of the country...we can't bloody sack them!

Regards JO
 
I'd like to see Gillard and Swan sacked for their "hysterically inaccurate claims" that they would not bring in a CO2 Tax.

And I'd like to see Gillard sacked for having 100% confidence in Craig Thomson. She obviously has profoundly compromised judgement, or she places very little value on what comes out of her mouth, or both.
 
Andrew Bolt's freedom of speech is particularly targeted because his rants...unlike most other journalistic rants - have attacked, not the Afghans, not the Iraqi's, not even the rude French...but Aboriginals. And from a man who will clearly not be scared by Gillard's rant at editor John Hartigan and
Glenn Milne's subsequent sacking from ABC Insight.

How has his freedom of speech been targeted? Last time I looked, he had two columns a week in the biggest selling newspaper in Australia, a daily blog on that papers website, a daily appearance on a conservative radio station (which nobody listens to, but still) and a weekly TV show. How many more platforms do you want?

In this article, he got his facts wrong, plain and simple. The 'freedom of speech' line is a diversionary tactic, from him and his employer (and supporters) to somwehow excuse him for his shoddy work.
 
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How has his freedom of speech been targeted? Last time I looked, he had two columns a week in the biggest selling newspaper in Australia, a daily blog on that papers website, a daily appearance on a conservative radio station (which noboly listens to, but still) and a weekly TV show. How many more platforms do you want?

In this article, he got his facts wrong, plain and simple. The 'freedom of speech' line is a diversionary tactic, from him and his employer (and supporters) to somwehow excuse him for his shoddy work.

Hi dan,

I don't dispute he got some facts wrong.....I do dispute that his insinuation that some people claim Aboriginal nationality just because the are 1/4 or 1/8 etc Aboriginal was racist in ANY way and I do dispute the fact that this mere insinuation is what has lead him to court.

Regards JO
 
And I'd like to see Gillard sacked for having 100% confidence in Craig Thomson. She obviously has profoundly compromised judgement, or she places very little value on what comes out of her mouth, or both.

Yep both. Craig Thomson has dropped completely out of the limelight and is completely useless to his electorate.:mad:

Regards JO
 
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