“Are we about to see one of the greatest property booms ever?” Lets debate!

i see a federal rental cap coming if prices explode - simliar to rent control area in NYC.

it could spell the death of negative gearing as well as the govt can't afford the tax breaks because yields would be stupid low - similar to the 1986 scenario in the US.

there's one out of left field for you all.
 
i see a federal rental cap coming if prices explode - simliar to rent control area in NYC.

it could spell the death of negative gearing as well as the govt can't afford the tax breaks because yields would be stupid low - similar to the 1986 scenario in the US.

there's one out of left field for you all.

Very interesting point.. So, all the investors will panic and leave the market in drove, which means all the bargain properties will be snapped up by ppl and vacancy rate will drop to close to zero.. So that creates another problem for government..

Another scenario that could emerge is that, while the rents are capped, all the empty rooms will now be occupied (due to unavailability of rental properties), and families could be forced to share together, and that could force the rents be charged on per room per week basis, rather than per house per week basis!
 
i see a federal rental cap coming if prices explode - simliar to rent control area in NYC.

it could spell the death of negative gearing as well as the govt can't afford the tax breaks because yields would be stupid low - similar to the 1986 scenario in the US.

there's one out of left field for you all.

NYC is a city serviced by commuters coming from areas outside the rent cap (New Jersey). Its one thing to slap a rent cap on a CBD - its a very different thing to slap a rent cap on a state or country.

I dont see it as a likely risk.
 
going to go against this tide and say no boom coming for a while ..

my general star gazing.. recession in 09, dropping prop prices for couple of years (talking in general - not going to talk about the individual merits for 6892 cities/towns etc around australia) .. stagnant, slow growth for few more years after that..

a massive-MASSIVE boom is coming but it aint in property. like previous boom to emerge from ashes of tech wreck.. another boom is emerging from global property/credit/financial fallout ...
 
a massive-MASSIVE boom is coming but it aint in property. like previous boom to emerge from ashes of tech wreck.. another boom is emerging from global property/credit/financial fallout ...

Hi Trendsta,

I believe the next global boom will be an alternative energy driven boom.

Same with you?

Shadow.
 
I feel like I'm on the wrong forum here.

However, since I live very close to a nice big alternative energy power plant, and people are mentioning alternative energy booms, I feel justified in saying that our local property prices are going to boom! :D

or not, since they're pretty high as is and climbing and I got lots of magical equity in the last month without doing anything but that doesn't mean anything
 
I feel like I'm on the wrong forum here.

However, since I live very close to a nice big alternative energy power plant, and people are mentioning alternative energy booms, I feel justified in saying that our local property prices are going to boom! :D

or not, since they're pretty high as is and climbing and I got lots of magical equity in the last month without doing anything but that doesn't mean anything

Hi RE... you might be interested in this article...

ALTERNATIVE ENERGY: THE NEXT GLOBAL BOOM

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/0081908

We have learned that the industry in any given bubble must support hundreds or thousands of separate firms financed by not billions but trillions of dollars in new securities that Wall Street will create and sell. Like housing in the late 1990s, this sector of the economy must already be formed and growing even as the previous bubble deflates. For those investing in that sector, legislation guaranteeing favorable tax treatment, along with other protections and advantages for investors, should already be in place or under review. Finally, the industry must be popular, its name on the lips of government policymakers and journalists. It should be familiar to those who watch television news or read newspapers.

There are a number of plausible candidates for the next bubble, but only a few meet all the criteria. Health care must expand to meet the needs of the aging baby boomers, but there is as yet no enabling government legislation to make way for a health-care bubble; the same holds true of the pharmaceutical industry, which could hyperinflate only if the Food and Drug Administration was gutted of its power. A second technology boom—under the rubric “Web 2.0”—is based on improvements to existing technology rather than any new discovery. The capital-intensive biotechnology industry will not inflate, as it requires too much specialized intelligence.

There is one industry that fits the bill: alternative energy, the development of more energy-efficient products, along with viable alternatives to oil, including wind, solar, and geothermal power, along with the use of nuclear energy to produce sustainable oil substitutes, such as liquefied hydrogen from water. Indeed, the next bubble is already being branded. Wired magazine, returning to its roots in boosterism, put ethanol on the cover of its October 2007 issue, advising its readers to forget oil; NBC had a “Green Week” in November 2007, with themed shows beating away at an ecological message and Al Gore making a guest appearance on the sitcom 30 Rock. Improbably, Gore threatens to become the poster boy for the new new new economy: he has joined the legendary venture-capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, which assisted at the births of Amazon.com and Google, to oversee the “climate change solutions group,” thus providing a massive dose of Nobel Prize–winning credibility that will be most useful when its first alternative-energy investments are taken public before a credulous mob. Other ventures—Lazard Capital Markets, Generation Investment Management, Nth Power, EnerTech Capital, and Battery Ventures—are funding an array of startups working on improvements to solar cells, to biofuels production, to batteries, to “energy management” software, and so on.


alt-energy-eps-v5.gif

Total market value: Alternative energy and infrastructure.
Estimated fictitious value of next bubble compared with previous bubbles.


The candidates for the 2008 presidential election, notably Obama, Clinton, Romney, and McCain, now invoke “energy security” in their stump speeches and on their websites. Previously, “energy independence” was more common, and perhaps this change in terminology is a hint that a portion of the Homeland Security budget will be allocated for alternative energy, a potential boon for startups and for FIRE.

More valuable than campaign rhetoric, however, is legislation. The Energy Policy Act of 2005, a massive bill known to morning commuters for extending daylight savings time, contained provisions guaranteeing loans for alternative-energy businesses, including nuclear-power technology. The bill authorizes $200 million annually for clean-coal initiatives, repeals the current 160-acre cap on coal leases, offers subsidies for wind energy and other alternative-energy producers, and promises $50 million annually, over the life of the bill, for a biomass grant program.

Loan guarantees for “innovative technologies” such as advanced nuclear-reactor designs are also at hand; a kindler, gentler nuclear industry appears to be imminent. The Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act has been extended through 2025; the secretary of energy was ordered to implement the 2001 nuclear power “roadmap,” and $1.25 billion was set aside by the Department of Energy to develop a nuclear reactor that will generate both electricity and hydrogen. The future of transportation may be neither solar- nor ethanol-powered but instead rely on numerous small nuclear power plants generating electricity and, for local transportation, hydrogen. At the state and local levels, related bills have been passed or are under consideration.

Supporting this alternative-energy bubble will be a boom in infrastructure—transportation and communications systems, water, and power. In its 2005 report card, the American Society of Civil Engineers called for $1.6 trillion to be spent over five years to bring the United States back up to code, giving America a grade of “D.” Decades of neglect have put us trillions of dollars away from an “A.” After last August’s bridge collapse in Minnesota, it took only a week for libertarian Robert Poole, director of transportation studies for the Reason Foundation, to renew the call for “highway public-private partnerships funded by tolls,” and for Hillary Clinton to put forth a multibillion-dollar “Rebuild America” plan.
 
Jo,
Just wondering.. do you think the (log) graph showing Sydney having 9% growth over the past 30yrs is useful for predicting the next 30yrs say?

And on the graph plotting disposable income vs house prices, why is the disposable income 3 times as much as the average wage?

Hey there VB (I grew up with three brothers that loved that stufff!;)),

I guess based on an average yes, I do. It may not be consistant, but I think it will average. No-one knows, but judging by historical patterns this seems to be the case.

Disposable incomes also take into account the unemployed and also :)welfare payments, and farming income. Therefore the wages are only part of Household Income and the big picture. You can see now how this can be possible.

Which brings us to another question.

Is this really a viable comparison, considering the unemployed generally do not buy houses? For the purpose of comparing wages to disposable income, in relation to property - then it would be wiser to take out the unemployed.
Then the question is how do we seperate the welfare payments to the unemployed from the employed?:confused::eek:

Stop making me think so much, it hurts.:p

Regards Jo
 
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ALTERNATIVE ENERGY: THE NEXT GLOBAL BOOM

May well prove to be true...

Oil has gone up significantly.

Carbon trading - looks like electricity will go up.


Thank you for the 'heads up' as this may well be the herd motivator.


Regards
Sheryn
 
ALTERNATIVE ENERGY: THE NEXT GLOBAL BOOM

Oh I do hope so... but after 9 years trying to develop projects in this industry, bashing my head against incredibly low Australian electricity prices, forgive me if I get a little jaded! :(

Seriously considering moving into something where their might actually be some decent money to be made...

If I had a dollar for every prediction of an "imminent" boom in that time! :rolleyes:
 
Its curious that a discussion that started out on fundamental analysis quickly turned into one on technical (charts, graphs) analysis.

I still think the fundamentals have it.

On the demand side we have a growing population due to immigration, and not only that, we have a whole lot of younger people who stay at home but would rather buy if they could. So demand is very high.

On the supply side, we are producing about 10% less houses each year than we need to meet demand (something like 240,000 dwellings build when 270,000 are needed) and this has gone on for a long time.

But on the demand side, the high cost of borrowing has reduced demand, but this is only temporary, because interest rates go up and they go down.

However, the underlying increasing demand is not being offset by an increasing supply, and as we know from basic economics, this will result in increased prices.

At the moment, the high cost of finance, and the worries associated with it are keeping buyers (demand) out at the moment, or is limiting the money they have. This will supress prices for a while, but once rates go down one or two times, then people will start rushing back in.

Rents are also increasing, which will start to tempt investors back soon, and make it more economical for people to buy their own homes.

The size of the next 'boom' will depend on how long it takes for it to start. The longer it simmers, the bigger the demand will be in the market. I've really no idea when it will start, but I want to get set as well as I can before it does.
 
i see a federal rental cap coming if prices explode - simliar to rent control area in NYC.

it could spell the death of negative gearing as well as the govt can't afford the tax breaks because yields would be stupid low - similar to the 1986 scenario in the US.

there's one out of left field for you all.


If you couldn't have NG, and there was no freedom for rental yield increases, say goodbye to investing in property, and the rental vacancies would be non-existent.

There is rental capping in L.A. I don't know when it was introduced, but the tenants who are on it basically never move out, and are great payers etc.

But, as soon as they move out the rent reverts back to market rent. It can double overnight, which, the Landlords are understandably trying to push.

We know one chick who has been in the same apartment for 20 years because it's capped. She can't afford to move out.

I can't imagine having capped rents Nation-wide would work here in Aus if it was on-going.

Imagine investors signing up on a $1 mill property with a 1% yield, with no possibility of ever increasing it. Good luck.
 
At the moment, the high cost of finance, and the worries associated with it are keeping buyers (demand) out at the moment, or is limiting the money they have. This will supress prices for a while, but once rates go down one or two times, then people will start rushing back in.

Rents are also increasing, which will start to tempt investors back soon, and make it more economical for people to buy their own homes.

The size of the next 'boom' will depend on how long it takes for it to start. The longer it simmers, the bigger the demand will be in the market. I've really no idea when it will start, but I want to get set as well as I can before it does.

Good Points Tubs.

I have noticed each time rents go up and prices do not (to copy from Michael Whyte) a "tipping point" for FHO is reached. Many think, "if we are paying $400 a week and it is $100 more a week to own, why not".

I saw this in Surry Hills SYDNEY where my PPOR was. My neighbours, young professional couple, asked was this small terrace at $340k a good investment in 2002? I said No. (see I am not property only blinded:p)

I said was high for the very small size, etc.. but I said if you are going in the area then buy anyhow, as i did not see prices going down and only rising in the long term.

I was wrong the boom continued and that terrace would be an easy $550 to $600k now.

Peter 14.7
 
I don’t believe Rental caps will ever be applied in Aust.

Instead the Rudd Gov is moving to subsidized low income renters with a rebate for investors.

This is disaster, open to rorting, family deals, you name it. It also , as quoted, provides no reason to move out and hence the tenants retire with no home, no investments ( breaks the rules), spending every $ and working the black economy for all it is worth.

Rudd is too naive in his social engineering approaches IMO. And yes I voted for labour.

Peter 14.7
 
BTW if they even tinker with NG they will destroy the rental supply. I think even Rudd remembers Keating efforts in the 80's and the recent NSW Vendor Stamp Duty Tax around 2003 and thier impact!:eek:

Peter 14.7
 
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