Are we becoming a nation of whingers?

[Les]

G'day TJamesX,

and someone will create the technology to harness this in the long term...

This happened in the late 19th century (1880? or thereabouts) when whale oil was reducing because the whale population was dwindling. This must've been "peak whale" before the term was known.

Then someone discovered OIL !! That changed a lot of things. Today, things keep changing, and will continue to change as more and more new "ways" are discovered.

Meantime, so long as each of us is working to minimise our footprint on the planet, we will eke things out until the next big discovery. Who's to say we won't be running around in uranium cars next, where 1Kg will produce 1,000,000KMs of motoring for $1000 ???

I'm with you - there WILL be more discoveries made (necessity is the mother of invention) and life WILL go on,

Regards,

 

[Andrew_A]

G'day TJamesX,

This happened in the late 19th century (1880? or thereabouts) when whale oil was reducing because the whale population was dwindling. This must've been "peak whale" before the term was known.

Then someone discovered OIL !! That changed a lot of things. Today, things keep changing, and will continue to change as more and more new "ways" are discovered.

Meantime, so long as each of us is working to minimise our footprint on the planet, we will eke things out until the next big discovery. Who's to say we won't be running around in uranium cars next, where 1Kg will produce 1,000,000KMs of motoring for $1000 ???

I'm with you - there WILL be more discoveries made (necessity is the mother of invention) and life WILL go on,

Regards,

There is a counter argument to this Les that says the number of times we have actually 'always managed' just isn't that large. For the energy that drives a globe how many times are we talking? Wood to Coal, Coal to various oils and a few? more, not a large track record yet.

Who knows how much of our presence here is simply dumb luck and how secure our continued presence really is?

 

[frayli]

Im 21 and surely the correlation between salary and house prices has changed. I dont mean this to be a whinge as everyone has to cope with their own circumstances. For example dad bought his first house for 48k (2.4 times his salary of 20k he was about 23) his salary now is around 90k in the same industry. The house sold for about 380ish (montmorency, melbourne) not so long ago. Thats about 4 times his salary for the same house. This does'nt even account for the fact that a person thats 23 in his industry would not be getting 90k. Of course different suburbs can boom more than others but i wouldnt say so in this case.

I agree with whoever made the point about your upbringing though i think parents should sit some kind of capability test! So many children of today with no respect and such loose morals it makes me wonder what will happen in 50 years when we are retiring.

 

[alexlee]

For example dad bought his first house for 48k (2.4 times his salary of 20k he was about 23) his salary now is around 90k in the same industry. The house sold for about 380ish (montmorency, melbourne) not so long ago. Thats about 4 times his salary for the same house.

Yeah, but I'm pretty certain Montmorency used to be a LOT less vibrant than it is now (not that I know anything about it). We keep hearing how our parents own nice houses in middle-ring suburbs now, but BACK WHEN THEY BOUGHT it, it was probably the back of beyond. Given that Melbourne is a LOT bigger than it used to be, how can you expect to be able to afford the same distance from the CBD, for example, that your parents did?

For example, there are plenty of houses out at the edges of Melbourne today that sell in the 200s. 'Normal' wage is about $50k, and the houses are bigger than they used to be with more amenities.

Are they (Epping, say) great areas? Probably not, but I'm guessing neither was Montmorency when your dad bought his place. Also, I'm guessing it was a pretty small house when he first bought it? Surely smaller than the 4 bed 3 bath houses that are being built now.

I have to say, your dad was on a pretty good wage if he made 20k when he was 23? I was only on $45k when I was 23, and I'm only 30. I mean, you're 21 so your dad has to be at least 40. I can't believe wages have only just doubled in the last 20 years?

I agree with whoever made the point about your upbringing though i think parents should sit some kind of capability test! So many children of today with no respect and such loose morals it makes me wonder what will happen in 50 years when we are retiring.

Given that the previous generation were the ones that invented free love, they're not exactly pristine. I still think memories get cleaned up with time. I wonder what our grandparents thought in the 60s and 70s seeing our parents as young people. Lots of head shaking, no doubt.
Alex

 

[frayli]

200's is still not 2 and half times my salary, you clearly have alot more experience than me I was just pointing out that it definately hasnt become easier for us to purchase a first home and labelling our whole generation whingers is a big call.

 

[steveadl]

Problem is the whingers (not intended at anyone) tend to have a larger voice, and they make for better ratings on all the tabloid papers/television. Hence why every few weeks at the moment we're subjected to poor Shazza & Dazza who can't afford their dream home because all those horrible property investors are driving up house prices etc etc blah blah.... and how the Liberal Govt. is'nt doing anything to help them etc etc - makes for good ratings because all the people who whinge tend to pay attention to this sort of media, and they all love ripping into the govt. at any possibility.

Funny how we don't hear about the 22yr old who's been working away since 16yo (first in fast food place, then in a full time job after uni etc.) saving up for a house deposit, finally gets it and moves in. Not such an interesting story, and no ratings/readers in it.

 

[frayli]

Yeah definately, the chances of finding whingers on this site to contribute is probably zero as well. I dont think anything about current house prices is unfair and ive put in place measures so i will be able to buy a house one day so there isnt really anything to whinge about in my case, it was just that someone needed to stand up for my generation

 

[steveadl]

Depends when the cut off is - I just turned 26, do I still count

Same with my group of friends, haven't really heard any of them complain about housing prices - all aged 25-26.

One couple decided they they were going to have to live a bit further away and smaller than what they wanted, to get a newly built house. They have bought and plan to move somewhere bigger one day, but don't whinge and procrastinate.

Another couple decided that they HAD to live in the suburb they grew up in, so mortgaged themselves to 103%LVR for an old house and now less than a year later want to refinance to access some more money for car etc. - In my eyes they have done the wrong thing and are continuing to make mistakes, but it's their choice, and they still haven't whinged how horrible things are etc

Another couple just bought an old house a bit further out than they want too, but fully intend to only live there for a few years, access the equity and buy the PPOR they want, and keep the first as an IP. Again no complaining

And as for myself and one of my single mates, we each bought respective IP's in our early 20's after saving up money from working (and personally I can tell you, it takes a bloody long time to save from only a $70-$100pw Hungry Jacks job ), and can now quite happily live where we want. Although he still lives with his parents, and I still live in my original IP that I don't plan on staying in

It all comes down to upbringing and attitude.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

For example, there are plenty of houses out at the edges of Melbourne today that sell in the 200s. 'Normal' wage is about $50k, and the houses are bigger than they used to be with more amenities.

Hi Alex,

Just on the other side of that, 'affordable' first housing in Melbourne can be 2 - 3 hours travelling time each way for some people to get to work. I know that I used to work with a few people who did have to travel this long each day - and this was before the boom.

While it is definitely possible for someone on an average wage to get a place, it does make it harder with regards to lifestyle. Comparing houses that our parents bought when they were first buying and were closer to work, etc. doesn't really fit.

It's easy to say to people 'just go out waaaay out to the outer suburbs and buy there', but the reality is that their lifestyle (as in spending time with family, etc) suffers for it.

Mark

 

[Peter Parker]

Hi Alex,

Just on the other side of that, 'affordable' first housing in Melbourne can be 2 - 3 hours travelling time each way for some people to get to work. I know that I used to work with a few people who did have to travel this long each day - and this was before the boom.

$200k houses in Melbourne are concentrated in a ring between 20 and 40km from the CBD, with most at the 30-40km distance. Assuming CBD employment, this makes for travelling time nearer to 1 hour each way, not 2-3 hours. An example suburb is Doveton.

Where do people with a bit bigger budgets (say $300k for a project home) go? Strangely they pay more to go even further out, to places like Narre Warren or Pakenham.

If travelling time and affordability was as big a factor as people claim it is, then we'd see massive gentrification of suburbs such as Doveton or Dallas (the latter is just 20km from Melbourne CBD).

As this isn't happening, we can only conclude that people don't care much about saving money or travelling time, and prefer to live in big new houses (30 squares versus 12 squares) amongst 'people like them' that characterise the fringe areas.

Peter

 

[alexlee]

While it is definitely possible for someone on an average wage to get a place, it does make it harder with regards to lifestyle. Comparing houses that our parents bought when they were first buying and were closer to work, etc. doesn't really fit.

It's easy to say to people 'just go out waaaay out to the outer suburbs and buy there', but the reality is that their lifestyle (as in spending time with family, etc) suffers for it.

I certainly don't deny that commutes are getting longer, but maybe when a city hits a certain size, it's no longer able to offer every person living there a 'decent' commute. It certainly happens in places like London and New York. I'm not saying it's right, but that just seems to be how society is these days.
Alex

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Alex,

I agree with what you were saying before, I just put across a different point of view for the sake that there is always the other side of the coin. Sometimes I'm guilty of forgetting that there are people my age who have children and make fair less than I do who don't have the luxury of having the choices I have.

Mark