Article on John Reed site

From: Mark Laszczuk


I found an article on John T. Reed's site that I thought was excellent. It's not about trashing some guru, so relax. It's called: Suggested sequence for starting a real estate investing program. Very good. I especially liked point no. 3. I've never seen anything like it anywhere, and it is so simple, it's ridiculous. Anyway, read and enjoy. It's at: http://www.johntreed.com/beginnersuggestions.html</a> br>

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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Reply: 2
From: Nigel W


On 9/12/02 9:29:00 PM, Mark Laszczuk wrote:
>I found an article on John T.
>Reed's site that I thought was
>excellent. It's not about
>trashing some guru, so relax.
>It's called: Suggested
>sequence for starting a real
>estate investing program. Very
>good.

Thanks for posting that Mark.

I find John T Reed tends to project a fairly pessimistic world view, but I guess that's a good counterpoint to the usual rah rah guru hype (particularly from US based gurus).

This list of his is probably the most sensible piece of work I've seen from him (the rest of his web site material seems to degenerate into tirades against others).

I particularly liked:

"Find as many of the good real estate books as you can and give yourself six months, and no more, to read them. Then get your butt out into the market and start doing deals! Do not study real estate endlessly."

To this I'd add

- get onto a good forum like this
- go to some meetings of like minded property investors and speak to people about what they're doing
- critically evaluate everything you hear and read.

N.
 
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Reply: 2.1
From: Jye Walker


Hi Mark,

Didnt you complain about John Reeds critique of RDPD on this forum, or Andrew Greys forum in the past 12 months? If I recall correctly, you denigrated him and his opinions, especially because he was so harsh in his response to RDPD. You offered to post a response to his critique of RDPD on Andrews website last year (August I think), but you never got around to it. I have saved your vitriolic response to Johns opinion of RDPD and am curioous as to your change of heart as to his "motives". Can you explain why your opinions have changed...

JW
 
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Reply: 2.1.1
From: Mark Laszczuk


Jye,
I certainly did do that. Let me tell you what has happened in the last twelve months: I learnt about property investment. Back then (yes, I can admit it), I thought I knew it all. I'd read Kiyosaki's nonsense (oops, I mean books) and thought it was the be all and end all of property investing. I thought he was a great man, making investing seem so simple and easy. Interestingly, though, at the time I also played Cashflow a few times, but ended up selling it cause it wasn't teaching me anything I didn't know already, even back then. Personally, I think (like his books and tapes) it's very risky, cause it gives people the impression that investing is really easy. Wanna exit the rat race? No probs! Just buy positive geared property! Wanna make money in the share market? No worries! Just buy stocks when they are undervalued! How can ya lose?!
Well, twelve months later and many, many, many hours spent reading on this and other forums, books, talking to people (read: seasoned property investors), asking questions, listening, listening, listening, I realise (actually, I began to realise it about eight or ten months ago now) that I know VERY LITTLE about investing, and I have absolutely no problem admitting that.
Some people out there are no doubt now saying 'So why does he post so much, if he knows so little?' Well, I believe in my opinion, and my right to express it. If I give 'advice' (and I use that word in it's loosest terms) I make it very clear that I am not a professional. Anyway, I'm getting off the track here.
So, about six months ago, questions started sprouting in my head. I began to see inconsistencies in Kiyosaki's work, and the more I thought about them, the more I began to be quite suspect of the guy. I mean, it's not that difficult to find the conflicting stuff in RDPD and his other books.
So I had basically turned off the guy ALL BY MYSELF before I rediscovered Reed's site. It was not Reed that did it for me, I did it on my own, doing my own analysis. Reed just happened to put it all down on paper(?) for me. Now, let me tell ya, reading his article for the second time, it was like I'd never seen it at all.
It amazed me just how much I'd glossed over the first time, cause quite frankly, I didn't want to know. But reading it, he does something that is extremely rare in any situation these days. He goes through everything he feels is wrong, and backs it up with EVIDENCE. I'm not talking personal opinion, I'm talking actual real estate techniques, how returns are determined in the real world and even actual laws.
Amazingly, emotion doesn't even come into it. It doesn't need to, cause there's so much damning evidence there to make Kiyosaki look like a shyster, it's not funny. Look, I'm the first one to admit that sites like Reed's need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but if you look at the article objectively, it's really really really difficult to pick any faults with it. Basically, cause there are none.
I'm surprised that more people haven't picked up on him, or questioned where he is coming from. There was a link to an interview with him (Kiyosaki) in the article (the interview is recent, early this year, I believe), and he says some of the scariest things you would ever hear. What's scary about them is that so many people believe and follow him.
My favourite, that really sticks out was his statement that his net worth goes from between 50 million and 100 million, depending on the day. He actually said that. If you want the link, I'll find it for you and post it. Now that is goddamn scary.
If that doesn't convince people he knows little to nothing about investing, I don't know what would. Kiyosaki is his own worst enemy, cause one of these days he's gonna say something so unbelieveably stupid, he's gonna get caught out and his whole world is gonna come crashing down.
Oh, and if you want a laugh, check out the bit where Kiyosaki's supporters have emailed Reed defending him. Some actually ACKNOWLEDGE that Kiyosaki lies in his books, but they are okay with that. How dumb can ya get, seriously?
The saddest part for me, is remembering that I was one of them, if only for a few months, I still shake my head in disbelief at how naive I was then. Just for the record, I am no cynic today.
In fact, I strongly believe that I am more positive today than I have ever been in my whole life. I have a new direction in life, clear, concise goals that I am continually working on and towards, the most wonderful girlfriend a guy could ever hope for, I'm constantly meeting new and exciting people and making a lot of great new friends, my employment prospects are beginning to change tack, everything is great!
So there's my answer for you Jye, hope it didn't put you to sleep!

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1
From: Glenn Mott


Hi Mark,

Would you have the URL for this guy's site?

Glenn
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1
From: Glenn Mott


Thanks Mark,

I guess you don't believe in Santa anymore either, huh?

Glenn
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mark Laszczuk


Nah, mate, me and Santa go way back! I love the guy!

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Alan Hill


Hi Mark,

Does Kiyosaki hold all the answers for all investors? I would agree with you, that in my humble opinion, the answer is no.

I don't know that I have ever read a book or attended a Seminar that I have thought held all the answers for me personally....right now..... but there are very few of them I wish I hadn't read or attended.....

Every investor is unique..... has different aptitudes and risk profiles......and is at different points along their 'investment path'. A technique that works and is easy for one may well be a real chore and unsuccessful for another.

Indeed, what works and doesn't work for an individual investor may well vary depending on what point they are at with their own experience and knowledge.

My point? You were hoping I'd actually have one weren't you...... :)

....is that individually I got 'something' out of parts of Kiyosaki's book(I only read one as the others appeared to be repeating the same theme) and I've added that 'something' in with the bits and pieces I have learnt from a variety of other sources to help educate me for where I am at this point on my own personal path.

Was 99% of Kiyosaki's (or others....) books 'rubbish'? Maybe....but if I learnt ONE valuable thing from it that I can apply to my own situation, then I feel it was worthwhile and I got my $24.95's worth of value.

Have I read it dozens of times? No.
Would I ask for a refund on my $24.95? No.


:)
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mark Laszczuk


Alan,
Great to know what you got something out of Kiyosaki's book. That makes one of us. I THOUGHT I got something out of it, but the more I questioned, the less I did get. Just for the record, could you tell me what it is that you got out of it?

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Alan Hill


Hi Mark.

I think if the only useful thing the book did was make people think about other options for growing income beyond traditional job salary income, then it was worthwhile. As I said I think different people will get different things out of some of these types of books.

Hey....where your at now you may be saying.... "but that is just so obvious and such a simple little message is such a rip off!", but is it such an obvious message to many people you come across?

The 'Richest Man in Babylon' book is probably another good example. A very simple message that could probably be summarised down into a few lines, but at least a worthwhile message none the less.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about the book having any positive content this time round Mark.


:)
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: The Husband


Mark

Without reading the book 'Rich Dad poor dad' I would still be working in a dead end job. It was short on specifics, but really got me motivated to get out there. I'm not out of the rat race yet, but well on the way. I like Kiyosaki's stuff and often listen to his tapes/audios (avail free on kazaa!)

TH
 
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Rk article on John Reed's site...

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2
From: Ross Sondergeld


Hi Mark,



Article on John Reed site

You said, "Great to know what you got something out of Kiyosaki's book. That
makes one of us. I THOUGHT I got something out of it, but the more I
questioned, the less I did get."


Well... you've got to give some credit to RK.

I LOVED his... rich and happy, don't go to school... book.

If anything it's an introduction to thinking outside the square.









Ross Sondergeld ~ Buyer Agent

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Imagine buying real estate the easy way...
...with a Buyer Agent on your side!!! "

Creative Real Estate Solutions Mobile 0412 289 464
Office 9b, 34 Glenferrie Drive Office (07) 5562 1555
East Quay Corporate Park Fax (07) 5562 1248
Robina QLD 4226, Gold Coast Buyerside@hotmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
 
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Rk article on John Reed's site...

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1
From: .watto .


G’day to The Husband,

You said…..”I like Kiyosaki's stuff and often listen to his tapes/audios (avail free on kazaa!)”

You wouldn’t happen to have a link to where these could be found on the net by any chance.

Cheers
watto
Melb Freestyler
 
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Rk article on John Reed's site...

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1
From: Mark Laszczuk


Alan,
I agree with you on your point. BUT, (didn't see that one coming, did you...) I have found a slightly disturbing trend among people who follow his stuff very closely (not all of them, just the new kids on the block).
They tend to think that investing is really easy and very simple. Why? Because that is the way Kiyosaki makes it out to be. The way he writes his books, he makes it seem as if you can go out and become financially independent via positive cashflow, make lots of money in shares, and build ten businesses all before you sit down for breakfast. He's the one that claimed his net worth jumps between 50 million and 100 million, depending on the day, remember? Why no one called him on this in the interview, I will never understand.
This type of 'advice' can be extremely dangerous. People have gotten themselves into extreme finanical difficulty by underestimating the complexity of investing (Henry Kaye grads can attest to that, I'm sure).
Another thing that rang alarm bells for me was his tendency to advise people to do things he does not do himself. Like, he pushes network marketing but has never been involved in it himself (you can find out why he does this in the Reed article).
Also, he recommends you read the works of Robert Allen. This, I do not understand. Why? Cause the guy is a bankrupt. He owes/owed the State of Utah in the range of 170K in taxes. Now, would you recommend to people they read a book by a guy who went bankrupt? Would you want to take advice from a guy who went bankrupt? I know I wouldn't. Kiyosaki, however, seems to have no problem doing so.
On another point, many of the strategies that Allen wrote about in his book Nothing Down are actually ILLEGAL. People have gone to JAIL for attempting to use them.
So that means that not only is Kiyosaki recommending books by a guy who went bankrupt avoiding his taxes, his strategies are also illegal and have put people in jail. Is this the kind of stuff you want to have recommended to you? In my eyes, it not only makes the person whose books are being recommended suspect, but the person recommending them also.
You need to ask yourself why is Kiyosaki recommending books by a guy whose bankrupt AND a law breaker? Just something to ponder.

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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Rk article on John Reed's site...

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1
From: Alan Hill


Mark,

What can I say......

....you have to 'sort the wheat from the chaff' with most investment books and their authors......most will have some angle or prejudice.

.....but.... 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water'......

Hmmmm......that was probably one 'expression' too many but I think you get my drift.....



:)
 
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Rk article on John Reed's site...

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Nicholas Hamilton


I like Kiyosaki's book in they make you go hey maybe there is more to look at .. it is great to get your mind to think. I think for some people they are not great at doing this so these book are useless. I also agree if you read them and think that is all you need they are extremly dangerous. But if you look hey there is some ideas to bounce off and to expand your thinking beyond the box you put your self in then it is great. Know I know a lot more I find the errors terrible and do not want to read his book. But I like them purely cause they got me to look more at this stuff.
 
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Rk article on John Reed's site...

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1
From: The Husband


Kazaa is located at www.kazaa.com
You need to download the little program then you can search for songs and audios etc. Don't breach any copyright!
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Vicki Campbell


I stumbled across "Cashflow Quadrant" a year ago and the light switched on for me about the world of investing. It's the only RK book I've read but it lead me to his website, which led me to Aussie based forums and other Aussie writers etc.
For me it was a stepping stone and for that I'm grateful.

Vicki
 
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