Bad tenant’s friend – legal issue.

[JustaDreamer]

The person renting my property went to interstate for a few weeks and got his friend to house sit, he decided to have a garage sale and sell my two air cons on the house and the kitchen gas cook top. And to top it off plus the house for 10 grand which someone was dumb enough to give him a 3 grand deposit for. None I have to give statements to the police to prove that it was not me trying to sell the property, insurance have said they will replace that got stolen/sold. Now the tenant is complaining he has to have a cold shower because he can’t turn the hot water on because the gas leak in the kitchen from missing cook top.
Just wondering if there is any legal action I can take personally I would have thought the tenant would be responsible for the property.

Mat.

 

[yo yo ma]

Has the tenant signed a lease and paid bond?

 

[JustaDreamer]

yeah, but the real estate agent feels sorry for him i think. Going "he is a behind in rent only because his mate took the money he is working hard to pay it back, I think you kick him out you will not get the money he owe's you"
Thats not my fault he trusted his friend to house sit.

 

[Simon]

I would call the police and get them to recover the property.

Get your property manager to do his job. If he cannot then go see the licensee of the agency and talk to him.

This is a terrible story and you shouldn't have to tolerate management like that - you are paying for this PM to do his job. Make sure he understands that.

Cheers,

 

[boods99]

Did I read right when you said, he sold the house for 10K?? and got a 3K deposit?
WOW that is unbelievable!
People can be such morons...he probably thought he would get away with it, too

Hope everything works out for you mate.

Boods

 

[luce.rocks]

Did I read right when you said, he sold the house for 10K?? and got a 3K deposit?
WOW that is unbelievable!
People can be such morons...he probably thought he would get away with it, too

Hope everything works out for you mate.

Boods

Isn't there some dumb rule like, if someone sells your house without your permission, the person who buys the house gets to keep it (becuase it wasn't their fault that they were duped) and you have to go after the person who fruadulently sold it to get compensated? So maybe the guy wasn't a moron - maybe he secretly suspected what was going on and 'bought' the house for 10K knowing that, so long as he didn't do or say anything that suggested that he knew something was dodgy, there was a good chance he'd get to keep the house, for 10K?

I don't know. I could have that completely round the wrong way.

 

[boods99]

Isn't there some dumb rule like, if someone sells your house without your permission, the person who buys the house gets to keep it (becuase it wasn't their fault that they were duped) and you have to go after the person who fruadulently sold it to get compensated? So maybe the guy wasn't a moron - maybe he secretly suspected what was going on and 'bought' the house for 10K knowing that, so long as he didn't do or say anything that suggested that he knew something was dodgy, there was a good chance he'd get to keep the house, for 10K?

I don't know. I could have that completely round the wrong way.

In my book...the guy is a moron...and should be put away

Boods

 

[redsquash]

Isn't there some dumb rule like, if someone sells your house without your permission, the person who buys the house gets to keep it (becuase it wasn't their fault that they were duped) and you have to go after the person who fruadulently sold it to get compensated?

No such rule for property

 

[Raddles]

Hi there
the rule would not be applicable in this matter.
There are legal principles which will allow a bona fide purchaser for value of the property - if they have no notice of a prior interest - to sometimes have the contract upheld.
- as this is certainly not value for the property - no court would uphold the interest of the would be purchaser - it is a fraud
thanks

 

[Perp]

Isn't there some dumb rule like, if someone sells your house without your permission, the person who buys the house gets to keep it (becuase it wasn't their fault that they were duped) and you have to go after the person who fruadulently sold it to get compensated?

I think you're thinking of the case of a bona fide purchaser. If you purchase something, and have a good faith belief that the person who sold it to you was entitled to sell it, and have paid for it, then you obtain clear title to it. http://www.answers.com/topic/bona-fide-purchaser?cat=biz-fin

Firstly, in Australia most (all?) states have laws overruling this principle. But even if one was dealing with the issue of someone claiming to be a "bona fide purchaser", I think one could mount a fair argument that no reasonable person could have held a good faith belief that the person had a right to sell them the property for $10K, and also the "buyer" didn't pay "value", and thus should have suspected something shonky.

(See what you can learn from Judge Judy? Seriously!)

In Australia, title generally remains with the original title holder in the case of stolen items such as cars, where you can prove you're the legitimate owner.

Back to what actually happened, I would have thought that your tenant was subletting without your permission, and thus liable. I'd be speaking with a solicitor and finding out your rights, and if the PM is not willing to assist you in pursuing your rights, then as well as taking legal action, I'd be getting a new PM.

 

[Kristine..]

Hi Dreamer

In Victoria, the actions of a visitor to the property are the actions of the tenant.

I cannot imagine that WA laws would be any different.


Your tenant is fully responsible for the actions of his 'friend'. I would strongly suggest that you get a solicitor involved as quickly as possible

The solicitor may be the solicitor appointed by your insurance company, or one engaged by yourself

There are a number of issues here but the two mains ones are:

Deliberate and wilful damage to your property (do not get sidetracked by what the damage was)

Gross negligence on the part of the Estate Agents who are contracted to manage the property for you.

Unfortunately, you may find that 'theft' does not apply here, as you allowed the tenant access to the property. It is reasonable that your tenant arranged for someone to caretake the property in their absence even though your permission was not sought before the tenant delegated the responsibility of care to their friend.

As you were allowing the tenant access to the property, and use of the appliances, the sale of the appliances is not 'theft' but 'conversion'. The tenant could even argue that his friend had every intention of replacing the appliances.

Equally, the Estate Agent could argue that they had no reason to believe that there had been any change in the situation ie that the bona fide tenant was in occupation, that they had performed regular condition inspections as per their instructions, and that they cannot monitor every property 24 hours per day.

Hand everything over to your insurance company. They have whole departments experienced in dealing with situations such as this. This is why ou have Landlord's Insurance but even if you don't, you will have Fire and General so get them involved immediately.


Good luck

Kristine

 

[hilly1981]

I wonder if title insurance would cover a scenario like this?

 

[letiha]

Firstly, the person who thought they would be getting the property for $10k would be an absolute moron.

Secondly, to be able to do a property transfer, there would have to be proof that the people doing the transfer are the people who actually own the property (a title search would reveal this)

Basically I believe that it is not your problem that the firnd "sold" your property, the purchaser can go to police, I am assuming the title is still in your name.

Secondly I would try and get the tenant out ASAP, if he is is behind in rent, get him evicted, secondly bad luck he has no hot water, it was the actions of his vistor that caused it, so really its to bad to sad for him. He should be coughing up the $$$$ to fix it.

Thirdly, get a new property manager, its your interests that they should be protecting.

 

[turk]

The person renting my property went to interstate for a few weeks and got his friend to house sit, he decided to have a garage sale and sell my two air cons on the house and the kitchen gas cook top. And to top it off plus the house for 10 grand which someone was dumb enough to give him a 3 grand deposit for. None I have to give statements to the police to prove that it was not me trying to sell the property, insurance have said they will replace that got stolen/sold. Now the tenant is complaining he has to have a cold shower because he can’t turn the hot water on because the gas leak in the kitchen from missing cook top.
Just wondering if there is any legal action I can take personally I would have thought the tenant would be responsible for the property.

Mat.

The first thing you should look to do is seal the gas leak as now that you know there is a leak you carry some of the legal responsibility for any property damage or injuries that may happen should your tenant do anything
stupid.

Peter
or injuries

 

[skater]

Sheesh, I've been around the block a bit & thought I had seen a lot, but that is certainly a first for me.

When things go wrong, you really need a PM that is on the ball. Yours does not sound like they can do an acceptable job. You are going to have to take the bull by the horns & get in there & get it sorted, starting with your PM. Some of the bigger agencies split the properties up & allocate you with a PM. Don't accept that! You want to deal with the best there is, so first things first get in there & see if there is someone in the Agency that has the appropriate skills to deal with this. If there is, then refuse to deal with anyone other than that person. If there isn't, then change Agencies. You need to get onto this ASAP.

 

[jaycee]

there is a law about selling & receiving "stolen" goods.

why this shoudl be differnt (I'm expressing rage here) is beyond me.

can someone remind me why tough guys & $100 are talked about in these situations ?!

bloody amazingly appalling...

at least you said insurance will cover stuff sold, cannot beleive the law does not entitle him to get locked up, let alone let him stay in the house to bloody complain about no hot water ... grrrrrrr and what was that CRAP from the property manager ?! how different is that than me selling the multifuncitonal $5k+ photocopier in our office at work & the artwork hanging in the foyer ?! I betcha I would get dismissed the minute I got found out, get paid 0 days notice & get charged straight away.
the absolute moronic ******** (who the hell is that naiive) who bought a house for $10k should have to wear the loss and try & go after the idiot tenant/his friend for his deposit (which they won't get back, case the tenant will have spent it (on bills of course..hmmm), how that is supposed to be your problem in the eyes of the law and you possibly wear the loss amazes me

now remind me why people talk (sarcastically or jokingly) of paying $100 odd to some unknown 6'4+ 120kg+ man/men to pay visits after dark again !?

rant over... I feel for you... sounds like legal advice on how to best reduce your impact is needed.. and of course, get the police involved if not already. I'd be wanting that tenant out ASAP, that should be enough to get them out NOW (nowhere to stay, how about lockup, that's where crims are sent aren't they ?) and the property manager would be getting a well thought out verbal assault from me aswell.