Bali Nine

[jackbak]

execute criminals, eventually you run out of criminals

Problem: solved

Kill em all!!! Yee Haw cowboy! If only we'd shot Linda Chamberlain when we had the chance...

The only ones who will suffer from these two dying are their families. Soon it will be over for the two that did the crime, their families are the ones that get the life sentence.

I think those in support of the DP are missing the point - no one denies what they did was evil and that they need to be punished - that's a no brainer. But murdering someone makes you worse than they are. And where do you stop, which crimes do we kill for and which do we rehabilitate?

Check out these lists of exonerated death row inmates and tell me how fair the death penalty is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates

Thankfully the civilised world is trending away form the death penalty.

 

[Ausprop]

Imagine if it's your brother facing the execution squad, living in fear every single night that their door will be broken down and they will be spirited away to the island. Imagine if it's your brother who's tried his darndest to reform, repent, change themselves and be a good role model and do good for others. Imagine if it's your brother who's so clean of drugs, he refuses to take even Valium to help him sleep on those sleepless nights.

If he's your brother, wouldn't you want him to be spared of the firing squad and given another chance at life?

who cares how hard he tries to reform? it's irrelevant, he has only 'reformed' because he is facing the wrong end of the stick of the risk/return decision that he has made. These guys did a deal with evil when they elected to greedily pursue money at the expense of countless other lives. I really can't understand why there is so much difficulty in accepting the consequences of your decisions?

 

[WattleIdo]

Disheartening how many support this massively disproportionate penalty.

Indonesia is two faced, they don't care too much about stopping death by drugs, they have the highest smoking rates in the world and allow advertising and sales of cigarettes to children outside schools. As a result over 300,000 Indonesians die every year from tobacco, dwarfing heroin.

I'd love to say why this forum gives a disproportionate sample but I can't because it's not PC. You'll have to work it out for yourself.

 

[cegosling]

I think Ausprop is right-they have only reformed to better the situation that they had put themselves in. It may seem harsh but they smuggled the drugs in, with full knowledge of the laws of that country. If they had not been caught would they have been model citizens today helping the underprivileged, or would they still be making money off the drug trade? There is no way of knowing, but their actions potentially could have taken many others lives through addiction, and with the ripple effect ruined many families. While I don't think their death will deter other couriers, it is the law by which Bali prosecutes drug mules.

 

[jackbak]

I really can't understand why there is so much difficulty in accepting the consequences of your decisions?

While I don't think their death will deter other couriers, it is the law by which Bali prosecutes drug mules.

Just because "it's the law" doesn't mean it's right. It's a law in Nigeria for an adulteress to be stoned to death... Should they just accept the consequences of their actions?

 

[chilliblue]

Just because "it's the law" doesn't mean it's right. It's a law in Nigeria for an adulteress to be stoned to death... Should they just accept the consequences of their actions?

Difference is the law in Nigeria makes you an adulteress if you were raped so you would be stoned for being the victim.

These are two Australians who knowingly took part in an illegal activity for profit. They took the risk in a country that openly executes drug smugglers.

Remember that these drugs were destined for Australia.

If they got away with it and make their money do you think they would have been sorry for their actions?

 

[jackbak]

Difference is the law in Nigeria makes you an adulteress if you were raped so you would be stoned for being the victim.

These are two Australians who knowingly took part in an illegal activity for profit. They took the risk in a country that openly executes drug smugglers.

That's exactly the point! Just because something is a law doesn't automatically mean it's right.

Remember that these drugs were destined for Australia.

If they got away with it and make their money do you think they would have been sorry for their actions?

You're missing the point again! I don't believe in murder. Full stop. Whether the drugs were destined for Australia or not doesn't change my opinion on that. Murder is an act of revenge and is inhumane.

 

[BayView]

I'd love to say why this forum gives a disproportionate sample but I can't because it's not PC. You'll have to work it out for yourself.

I don't mind if you say what you mean; the trick is to say it so the post doesn't get deleted.

And, you don't get the sook patrol putting in a complaint.

 

[HiEquity]

The death penalty is the ultimate hypocrisy.

It requires a society to say to itself - "we think that murder is so unacceptable that we are going to do it too". It shows that society's weakness in having to stoop to the same level as the condemned.

I will always oppose the death penalty wherever it may be found. Saddam Hussein included (I don't remember our PM being quite so eloquent in that case...).

All those baying for blood need to stop and think that someone is going to have to pick up a gun and shoot these defenceless people. There will be blood and gore flying everywhere and it may take them quite some time to die in immense pain. They will have to watch that and likely someone else will have to clean up the mess.

After all these years of trying to find a "clinical" way to take someone's life, there is still no way to kill someone that doesn't involve a significant risk that they will suffer incredibly in the process. Electrocution, hanging, shooting, chemicals, guillotine, drawn and quartered - you name it - none of it can be considered "humane".

Lucky it's not you who has to pull the trigger I guess...?


..........


"Shoot straight ya ba$tards, don't make a mess of it..."

 

[WattleIdo]

I'd also like to use the word 'obtuse' but will refrain.
Ausprop and friends - you're only young once.
I wonder how many people you know who 'reformed' when they were already good people???
Of course people reform when they're in sticky situations - that's what makes us human and is one of the few apects of humanity that puts us that little bit above animals.
Mercy is when you are kind in a way that isn't called for. The person doesn't really deserve it. But by showing mercy and forgiveness, you show your own humanity.
You're going to be in lots of sticky situations in life and if you don't learn how to forgive yourself and others, life is going to be very harsh for you.
Bad behaviour brings us down, good behaviour picks us up. It doesn't matter why or what got you to your knees, it only matters that you change your ways.
This is Being Human101.

 

[MTR]

The death penalty is the ultimate hypocrisy.

It requires a society to say to itself - "we think that murder is so unacceptable that we are going to do it too". It shows that society's weakness in having to stoop to the same level as the condemned.

I will always oppose the death penalty wherever it may be found. Saddam Hussein included (I don't remember our PM being quite so eloquent in that case...).

All those baying for blood need to stop and think that someone is going to have to pick up a gun and shoot these defenceless people. There will be blood and gore flying everywhere and it may take them quite some time to die in immense pain. They will have to watch that and likely someone else will have to clean up the mess.

After all these years of trying to find a "clinical" way to take someone's life, there is still no way to kill someone that doesn't involve a significant risk that they will suffer incredibly in the process. Electrocution, hanging, shooting, chemicals, guillotine, drawn and quartered - you name it - none of it can be considered "humane".

Lucky it's not you who has to pull the trigger I guess...?


..........


"Shoot straight ya ba$tards, don't make a mess of it..."

This is the current procedure in indonesia they allow 3 bullets per person/victim the rest are blanks if the victim is still alive they are then permitted to use a fourth bullet to the head.

 

[HiEquity]

In indonesia they allow 3 bullets per person/victim the rest are blanks if the are still alive they are then permitted to use one more bullet to the head, this is fact

What's your point? Does that make it OK?

 

[MTR]

I'd also like to use the word 'obtuse' but will refrain.
Ausprop and friends - you're only young once.
I wonder how many people you know who 'reformed' when they were already good people???
Of course people reform when they're in sticky situations - that's what makes us human and is one of the few apects of humanity that puts us that little bit above animals.
Mercy is when you are kind in a way that isn't called for. The person doesn't really deserve it. But by showing mercy and forgiveness, you show your own humanity.
You're going to be in lots of sticky situations in life and if you don't learn how to forgive yourself and others, life is going to be very harsh for you.
Bad behaviour brings us down, good behaviour picks us up. It doesn't matter why or what got you to your knees, it only matters that you change your ways.
This is Being Human101.

Unfortunately, vengeance remains a major ingredient in the public popularity of capital punishment.

But at the end of the day the death penalty only creates more victims in society ?

MTR

 

[Harro]

At both Jakarta and Denpasar airports large billboards display the sign that Drug Trafficking is punishable by Death. I am pretty sure both Sukumaran and Chan can read. The same message is also broadcasted over the planes intercom system throughout the flight. I don't believe either are deaf.
They took the risk knowing only too well of the consequences if caught.
If they didn't value their lives then why should we!

 

[Ed Barton]

repeat offenders who aren't allowed to have their previous history of offending presented in the current case at hand -

Jury's should most definitely not be allowed to hear of accused criminal histories. Could you honestly say that if you were a juror and knew the accused had been convicted of the same offence in the past that it wouldn't bias your judgement?

It's appropriate that the judge takes into consideration a guilty persons criminal past when sentencing - and they do.

 

[MTR]

What's your point? Does that make it OK?

Its barbaric that's the point

 

[HiEquity]

If they didn't value their lives then why should we!

Do you say that about the guy who killed himself riding a motorbike too fast one day? Or the skydiver whose parachute failed to open? After all they knew the risks...

Personally, I value everyone's life. If someone's homicide can be prevented, it should be.

Its barbaric that's the point

No worries - my apologies - it was a bit hard to tell!

 

[Harro]

Do you say that about the guy who killed himself riding a motorbike too fast one day? Or the skydiver whose parachute failed to open? After all they knew the risks...

Personally, I value everyone's life. If someone's homicide can be prevented, it should be.



No worries - my apologies - it was a bit hard to tell!

They are accidents. Totally different IMO to wilfully trying to import illegal drugs knowing the consequences if caught. They were out to profit from others misery, unlike the examples you have given.

 

[jackbak]

At both Jakarta and Denpasar airports large billboards display the sign that Drug Trafficking is punishable by Death. I am pretty sure both Sukumaran and Chan can read. The same message is also broadcasted over the planes intercom system throughout the flight. I don't believe either are deaf.
They took the risk knowing only too well of the consequences if caught.
If they didn't value their lives then why should we!

All the public service announcements in the world don't make it ok to put a bullet through somebody's heart.

 

[Harro]

All the public service announcements in the world don't make it ok to put a bullet through somebody's heart.

That's your opinion, not mine! You obviously have never been a victim.