Big demographic changes ahead

[contrary]

Contrary you just resent the older geberations for your own shortcomings which you justify as "bad luck". It has never been easier to buy a house, start a biz, make lots money even as employee. I would have been much better off if I was starting out now.

I have a house and a few IP's and I also have my own business. I did once work as an employee and I think the tax treatment they get is really quite unfair.

I do find pensioners annoying when they ask for a discount and obviously are not at all poor or needing it. I ran into a woman I know at a GP surgery and she asked the receptionist "can you spare a pensioner a break ? (ie discount)" and this woman has children who are very wealthy and is herself reasonably well off.

What I find irritating is this sense of entitlement that some older persons have that they are entitled to special treatment because they turned 65. They get on their high moral horse when their handouts are threatened and anyone questioning about this is stereotyped as a whinger, terribly disrespectful etc etc. Which is all smoke and mirrors, everyone wants handouts, the oldies included. Simplify the message and say "gimme my handout".

I have to admit I am envious of the very wealthy around retirement who pay no tax. I hope it's still around when I retire but doubt it.

 

[Aaron_C]

I have a house and a few IP's and I also have my own business. I did once work as an employee and I think the tax treatment they get is really quite unfair.

Why is it unfair for employees? They take no risk, the employer is responsible for paying all their PAYG taxes, paying their superannuation, giving them annual leave, sick/personal leave. If anything I'd say they have a pretty good deal.

 

[lizzie]

You could take out the "older persons" and "turn 65" and you will find this exactly describes a percentage of any generation.

 

[Sunfish]

I have to admit I am envious of the very wealthy around retirement who pay no tax. I hope it's still around when I retire but doubt it.

Who knows. You may be so broke the Gov wont even BOTHER stealing from you. Life may throw you a curve ball too.

Other than that your post was merely an intemperate rant.

 

[Piston Broke]

I have a house and a few IP's and I also have my own business.

Great!!!

What I find irritating is this sense of entitlement that some older persons have that they are entitled to special treatment because they turned 65. They get on their high moral horse when their handouts are threatened and anyone questioning about this is stereotyped as a whinger, terribly disrespectful etc etc. Which is all smoke and mirrors, everyone wants handouts, the oldies included. Simplify the message and say "gimme my handout".

Well they are at all ages, tbh you sounded like some kid who at age 22 resents the world cause some kid have ferraris and yachts.
They will probably also grow into whining pensioners as well.

I have to admit I am envious of the very wealthy around retirement who pay no tax. I hope it's still around when I retire but doubt it.

Most wealthy people I know have no super.

I did once work as an employee and I think the tax treatment they get is really quite unfair.

The system is simple:
Any expense incurred in earning taxable income is tax deductable. Same for everybody.
You take risk, invest & expend hoping that the biz will make some profits.
And if it don't the employees get paid anyway and you lose all the money.
It's win/win, and low risk low reward for them.
Most people who don't houses will cite "afraid of borrowing" as a cause.
They have never grown a pair, and now they want yours (entitlement).

 

[Aaron_C]

Most wealthy people I know have no super.

That's because usually people who are wealthier are older and were working before superannuation was introduced by Hawke/Keating and wealthier people are usually self-employed and superannuation is the last thing on their mind...although SMSFs are one of the biggest superannuation sectors so perhaps that will change soon.

 

[Piston Broke]

That's because usually people who are wealthier are older and were working before superannuation was introduced by Hawke/Keating and wealthier people are usually self-employed and superannuation is the last thing on their mind...although SMSFs are one of the biggest superannuation sectors so perhaps that will change soon.

Years ago I don't remember SMSFs, all those corporate super account from 20-30 yrs ago never got the large sums promised when they first signed up.
The banks and finance institutions and their sales people were then beneficiaries of those policies, and still are.
I know of a few self employed who joined some super funds on big promises in the 80s, all turned out hot air and some lost all of their money.
Why up valuable capital till your 65, never made sense to me.

 

[ali]

But this debate will never be resolved. Every generation thinks they've got it harder than the one before ... but if you are a history buff, you will see that every generation has a high standard of living than the one before, so expectations go up and ergo they think they are hard done by.

I agree. But I think I and many of my friends have it better than our parents. Even so, my parents and my husband's parents are always saying they feel guilty that they had it so easy, and we don't. Maybe they are reading all those negative stories on the rising cost of living? They put us through uni and gave us options. They gave us the skills to aquire our own wealth. Yet they keep trying to spend the money they worked hard for on us and our kids. We think they have given us enough though and just want them to spend it on themselves and enjoy their retirement.
Cheers Ali

 

[lizzie]

kudos Ali - and your parents must be proud. You are also a rare-ish example (as are most of those of each generation on SS)

 

[Macca]

This is one of those debates that can go on forever, it is very easy to pick one particular point and criticise but in reality, most people that complain are really just talking through their pocket

EG: Liz says that BBs had free Uni, the BBs are usually regarded as being born 1946-64, free Uni didn't start until around about 1976, so only those born 1958 onward would really benefit. All the earlier BBs had to pay cash up front for the courses each year, plus all their books, travelling, accomodation costs etc.

This free BB Uni myth is one of the half truths that are perpetuated by journos to create interest in articles.

Previous generations used to pay quite low taxes and receive quite low benefits, EG in the 60s my Dad was a tradesman painter working 6 hours OT every week. With the deductions for a wife and 3 kids he was only paying about 5% tax on his total wage each week.

The only real Govt benefit coming back was child endowment which was a few shilling a week I think. By comparison to todays wages / benefits it seems small to me.

Pensioners of today enjoyed boom times most of their working life, the last really bad recession was in 1960 or thereabouts, so anyone born after 1940 has had plenty of time to put some away if they had so chosen. I realise that some people have health problems, bad luck, divorces etc that do cause financial problems but when you cop bad luck then you either fix it or accept it and adjust your lifestyle.

I do think that most people we read about or see on the TV are just having a whinge looking for a windfall, and why not ?

 

[contrary]

Handouts are appreciated initially, then expected. That's where the sense of entitlement comes from. It's universally human to be self interested.

Beyond anyone's particular situation, I like the idea of equality. Income from any source should be taxed at the same rate, whether capital or labour, whether they're black or white, whether the person is 18 or 66, whether they are self employed or employed by someone else.

The trend everywhere is to tax the middle class more. Capital is mobile so that gets taxed less. Small business gets a break (not sure why or for how long that will go on for). Retirees and those nearing retirement get a break.

I think it is easy to put down the middle class wage earners as stupid sheep but they subsidise everything and everyone. They buy houses and pay the most in effective taxes. A healthy society depends on growing prosperity for the middle class. When they become too unhappy, they revolt, which is not good for anyone, particularly the squid who live off them.

Most people seem to be aware that the current entitlements eg. retirement age, super, tax concessions are not sustainable with an aging population hump. It will be interesting to see how that resets. We've been sheltered by the resources boom and that reckoning has been delayed. We have a chance to watch other places like the US, europe and Japan and plan and potentially be more prepared. Are we doing that? As someone said, if it can't happen (keeping the current entitlements with BB's), then it won't happen.

 

[lizzie]

The trend everywhere is to tax the middle class more.

They also get the biggest handouts (asides from pensioners). Although, I agree that they should cut the handouts to this class (ie, ftb) and cut the tax thresholds - for the same net outcome.

Small business gets a break (not sure why or for how long that will go on for).

Seeings as they are the biggest volume of employers - it is wise of the government to encourage their existance and growth

Retirees and those nearing retirement get a break.

Have to remember that during the majority of their working lives, there was no super. Expectation of the pension was touted and accepted as the norm.

A healthy society depends on growing prosperity for the middle class.

Created by small businesses.

I think over the coming years all entitlements will change dramatically ... but who knows where, when or how.

 

[vmay]

totally agree with downsizing and lifestyle being important.

we have been looking to do just that, both in the bb demographic. a lock up and leave type of place, we like to travel and security and close to amenities also important.

it would be appealing to be able to just walk to shops/cafes etc and not having to depend on a car.

selling properties etc is not that important we could keep them, in fact we have considered moving into 1 of our well located properties, instead of buying a new ppor.
lots of benefits in doing that no cgt etc. we would need to do a complete reno to bring up to what we would like to live in.

not all bb are the same it probably depends on their individual positions, in terms of finance, health status etc.

Yes, I agree, not everyone is same. I am BB and have small PPOR close to facilities, including lifestyle and health. Single story dwelling....designed specifically with health needs in mind. Others have shown interest in this type of property since I built it and more will in future, I believe, the smaller lot size with easy access to public facilities will be increasingly popular.