Body Corporate

[h8dk97]

Hi there,

Couple of days ago I got a letter from body corporate that during this year's meeting they've decided to set a special levy for repairing windows. Attached to the letter was a quotation for almost $10,000 to replace windows in my flat. I intended to come to that meeting but couldn't make it on the day, anyway, there was nothing in agenda that would indicate that windows will have to be replaced and such costs for repairs would be involved.

I've spoken to owner of another flat in the building and she said she hasn't received a quotation yet, but she was told she only need to paint her windows.

What I'm trying to find out now is how I can avoid these crazy costs? As far as I know I cannot refuse to pay, but what rights do I have? Can I get a quote myself?

Would appreciate any relevant info. Ideally I would prefer not to spend any money, but is that possible?

Thanks.

 

[TheCamel]

Special levy approved by a quorum ?

You cannot avoid it. You have to pay it. More info would be handy, i'm confused re conflicting information, but still.
It's covered under strata legislation. If you don't pay it, the Body Corporate will charge interest on the levy.
They can also take you to a debt collection agency if you don't pay it.

I doubt the entire 10K is your bill. Have a chat to your strata manager.

If you want to fight it:

* Review the minutes of the meeting,
* Make sure there was a quorum there (at least 66% of unit holders, or their proxies.)
*Make sure the notice for the meeting was appropriately sent out
* check the unit entitlements for your unit and ensure it's been calculated correctly
* find out exactly what the quote is for.
* find out how many quotes were obtained for the works
* find out if there is any link between a committee member and the quoting company or
* between the managing agent/agency and the quoting company and then
* if it has been handled at arms length, or if it looks ilke nepotism (ie, is it the best quote)




If you're having trouble financially, speak to your strata manager. You may be able to arrange a payment plan of some sort.

They can NOT just send you a quote and tell you to repair your windows. The windows and frames are the body corporate responsibility, as they are outside the boundry of your "lot." (strata legislation normally refers to a lot as extending from the halfway point in between any walls... I can't think of a better way to word what i mean..

We provided copies of ALL quotes for a recent special levy we raised, and we told the other owners why we felt that a particular option was the best choice, but they still have the chance to choose a quote..

 

[h8dk97]

Thanks TheCamel,

As far as I know nobody objected to the repairs. Just a couple of questions, what do you mean by "Make sure the notice for the meeting was appropriately sent out", what exactly should I look for?

There is only one quote and it is for replacing windows (it has a list of things to be done). Are they legally obliged to provide more than one quote? And do I have the right to get quotes myself?

Thanks again.

 

[TheCamel]

I dunno if they are legally obliged as such.. and it may then depend on your strata legislation in your state.

most of what I say wrt strata relies on the ACT legislation, that I tend to find myself reading over at least once a month, looking for various things.

They have to send out a notice about holding the [A,S]GM with at least a certain amount of time before hand.. Ie, they can't send out a letter to you today, saying they are going to have a GM next Tuesday.
I beleive it's 14 days here.

If the quote is 10K to replace windows, look at exactly what the quote entails. Even if it's ONLY to replace your windows, I don't think they can apportion a special levy to only one lot owner. It would have to be shared amongst all lot owners, according to entitlement.. thats just how it works.

 

[myla]

hello,

keep in mind "you" are the body corporate and it is not the manager who has made the decision

the "committee" (owners) has made the decision and everyone needs to participate, they have most likely chosen the most suitable quotation

regards

myla

 

[h8dk97]

hello,

they have most likely chosen the most suitable quotation

regards

myla

$10,000 suitable quotation for replacing 4 windows? Let me disagree with that, there must be something fishy about it.

I have spoken to the body corporate manager, she didn't object that I get my own quotes and go with tradespeople I find. I sent her email asking to get a copy of the building report that suggested replacing / repairing windows in the building, as I've never seen it. No reply yet. I'm planning to spend no more than tenth of the quoted amount (would be nice before the end of this finacial year)... but we'll see.

 

[TheCamel]

I still don't understand this...


The body corporate cannot hold you financially responsible for your windows or frames - they simply aren't yours.

If the body corporate has struck a Special Levy, to arrange for this payment, then the ENTIRE body corporate has to committ funds to that levy relevant to their unit entitlement.

It's possible that your 10,000 you have been levied (strikes me as rather overboard) could be your UE for the entire special levy. in which case they'd be replacing all the windows.

However, without knowing more about the situation, I don't know how much more I can comment..

How big is your complex ?

 

[handyandy]

Absolutely it should not be your personal expense as the windows are the responsibility of the the body corp.

What exactly is the special levy?

Also who are the people in the executive committee? It is these people who you should speak to as they are the ones who in all likelyhood prompted to get the quotes and also selected the quote to be acted on.

Any substantial item to be considered should have been mentioned in the notice and the agenda for the meeting. It may be that a number of meetings have already been held where these items were discussed. Generally, things move slowly for exactly the reason you now face, giving owners plenty of time and notice that these sort of maintenance items are on the agenda.

Reading your outline I am draw to the conclusion that all owners have been sent the same quote and also their share of the special levy.

Just because a special levy has been struck does not mean that the repairs are a fate a comple. In one of our stratas we struck a special levy to install security gates. The money was to be collected over an extended period (2 1/2 years). By the time all the money had been collected the security issues had dissipated and as a result the BC voted to use the funds on alternate upgrades and maintenance instead.


Cheers

 

[myla]

hello,

please note the manager does not make the decisions, he acts on behalf of the committee

some body corps here in melb will cover windows and some will not cover windows,

in a block I am associted with we could either replace our windows to the same style in powder coated aluminium or we could get existing timber windows repaired

got no dispute with you that most BC's are getting ripped off by tradespeople/companies etc

thankyou

myla

 

[The Y-man]

* Make sure there was a quorum there (at least 66% of unit holders, or their proxies.)

..

In Victoria, I believe the quorum need not be present, as long as there is no objection within 28 days of the minutes of the meetings being sent out.

I agree with all however that the case sounds a bit strange, as such costs are usually tallied for the entire development, and split according to the BC entitlements (i.e. based on the size of your property).

One of our apartments is requiring some serious structural work (concrete cancer in balconies) - that's serious work, but even that didn't come up with a bill like that one.... Are you sure it's not a "BC Takeover" underway to force people to sell out? (a tactic whereby a group of owners get together, dream up huge fix ups, so that people sell out cheap)

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[chrispy]

I am involved in a few Body corps and each one I am responsible for my own window replacement but they must be in accordance with the "Common Look"

It depends on what windows are being replaced. I spent $6k on a townhouse but that was replacing huge sliding glass doors

Chris

 

[TheCamel]

I am involved in a few Body corps and each one I am responsible for my own window replacement but they must be in accordance with the "Common Look"

It depends on what windows are being replaced. I spent $6k on a townhouse but that was replacing huge sliding glass doors

Chris

yes, but did you choose to do this, or did they just TELL you

 

[wish-ga]

Regards to the windows. Each owner does not need to pay for their own unit.

It is common property. Sinking fund should cover it. If not and a levy is divided between all units to maintain any common property.

According to page 18 of Strata Living windows are common property as they are considered a part of the wall!
"wall includes any door, window or other structure within the wall and their working parts...."

They are doing a swifty.

=== === === === ===

I intended to come to that meeting but couldn't make it on the day......

Next time appoint a proxy to vote on your behalf according to your instructions (mins should have a proxy form attached)
On appointing a Proxy in NSW see page 10 of Strata Living put out by the Dept of Fair Trading here

Ask in writing if there is going to be anything that requires a vote. That way you can give your instruction. If something is omitted from the agenda to block you from making a proxy vote you have it in writing that you asked ahead of time.

Usually it is the Body Corp manager that will act as proxy not another owner.

 

[wish-ga]

I am involved in a few Body corps and each one I am responsible for my own window replacement but they must be in accordance with the "Common Look"

It depends on what windows are being replaced. I spent $6k on a townhouse but that was replacing huge sliding glass doors

Chris

Chrispy if the owner is choosing to replace (due to aircon is going in) is one matter. (screen door, or electric garage door, sliding door to accommodate wheelchair)

Maintaining an existing fixture due to age of the block is another issue altogether. Windows are common property.

The costs are divvied up depending on the allocation to each lot (3br will pay more than 1 br)

 

[myla]

hello,

no sinking fund required for BC's in Vic at the moment

regards

myla

 

[h8dk97]

Ok, just to clarify few things for TheCamel and others (Things I wanted to emphasize I put in bold. I’ve replaced company names with XXX)

1. The property is in Melbourne

2. The quoted price ($9625) to replace windows is for my 2br flat only. The building is a block of 8 flats, mine is on the 1rst floor.

3. The letter I received together with the minutes of bc meeting and quotation stated "... Please return this section with your cheque made payable to XXX Total Invoiced $9,625.00..."

4. The building report says: "... We would strongly recommend that all damaged windows be replaced by a glazier."

5. The meeting minutes say: "There was a general discussion on the XXX Report. It was resolved to do the repaired maintenance in the following order. 1. Windows - Throughout the block repair/replace all window frames as required and paint with the existing colour. It was resolved that a special levy will be charged for the price for each apartment's windows individually. Work will only commence on the windows once full payment has been made to XXX ..."

6. I called the bc manager and she told me that I can get my own quotes and get my tradespeople to do the work, which should be completed by the next general meeting.

My question is, given all the information above, can I get someone (a building inspector, architect or whoever does this sort of job) to check my windows and if found in acceptable condition simply leave them as is? Or otherwise perform little repair work, patch up and paint? The objective is to spend as little as possible.

Thanks very much for your replies, I really appreciate your input.

 

[handyandy]

What is the 'xxx report'.

This is what I referred to previously in that previous discussions have happened which have prompted a report to be obtained etc. How come you did not become aware of these discussions?

It seems that a further decision was taken that the repairs would be carried out as per the 'xxx report' but that each unit would pay for their own share of the quote. This is very perculiar as windows are common property and regardless of each unit needing repairs all unit holders are liable up to the limit of their unit entitlements as a portion of the quote.

Was the decision to pay for your own windows because each units expenses were the same or was it that the unit holders (committee) that were present elected to go this way because on this basis they were up for less.????

To answer this question you would need to know what the total quote was and how this quote was allocated to individual units.

I still cannot believe that the BC can elect to allocate the expenses in this way, as it is contrary to the normal operation of a strata.

The main reason that its contrary to normal operation is reflected by your reaction and wanting to 'save' and possibly instigating an inferior job which will not be in line with the other owners. The whole drive of the strata should be to maintain the building in good repair with an homogeneous look and feel. With each owner doing their own thing you potentially end up with a real hotch potch.

Further generally the owners who partake in the BC meetings really have no idea about appropriate levels of maintenace and this whole issue may have arisen because one owner complained about some pealing paint. Oh, we must get a report etc...... Generally the BC manager goes along as they will be seen to be doing the right thing and of course its not their money.

It is only by you going along and getting involved not just asking questions in the meetings but inspecting the property and knowing the issues in the flesh.

Could you please post more details regarding the 'xxx report', the actual quote details and unit entitlements. As without knowing these we really are gropeing in the dark.

Cheers

 

[ani]

It all sounds very odd to me also.

Our BC is responsible for all windows and doors so any repairs are split as per strata allotment between us all.

I'd seriously question how yours alone can cost that much. And as handyandy says, why would you want everyone "fixing" their own and the resulting mess......

If something as huge as that is happening in our block it is on the agenda for the AGM and we then elect to get 3 quotes, then a SGM is held if it is urgent, otherwise it is voted on at the next AGM.

Edit: Just to add , if it was like repairs to one apartment for 1.5-2k , the committee would just say yes but 5k plus we will present it to all owners

 

[myla]

hello,

in Vic things are different regarding windows, many BC's have elected to have owners undertake the cost of window repairs

we dont have sinking funds,

i imagine each owner has been given a quotation for their unit, to replace their windows , paint etc and h8dk97 is questioning the cost and whether the works is required

this happened in a block I am associated with, could of repaired and repainted or could of replaced with aluminium frames in same style

I went with repair and paint as was much cheaper today

did window company or XXX report stipulate what was wrong with YOUR windows, this would help alot

thankyou

myla

 

[h8dk97]

hello,

i imagine each owner has been given a quotation for their unit, to replace their windows , paint etc and h8dk97 is questioning the cost and whether the works is required

did window company or XXX report stipulate what was wrong with YOUR windows, this would help alot

myla

Yes myla, you are correct. As I mentioned earlier the quote I've got was only for my flat. And they only sent me one quote while I would've expected two or three. But that doesn't really matter as I don't want and not going to use those dodgy quotes.

The XXX report only gave an overall picture, it did not talk about specific windows, it just says that windows which are in bad condition should be repaired / replaced.

I don't know what other owners are going to pay, that information isn't available to me as everyone is getting their own quote. I called one of the owners and according to her she's only going to paint her windows as she did some repairs (or replacement, not sure at the moment, I will have to find this out) couple of years back.

Again, my concern at the moment is how to avoid costs or pay minimum for some cosmetic work. When I inspected the place last time, about a year ago the windows did not seem all that bad to me. The XXX report provides photos and some windows on the ground floor look like they are about to fall out, but they're not mine.

I'll try to make time with tenants in the nearest future and have a look for myself, I'll take my camera with me.