Bulk Billing

[skater]

Do 5 minute doctors actually cost the system more?

I have only ever met one doctor like this. Crowded consulting rooms, you get called in, you don't get a chance to say anything really, & out you go with a prescription. Needless to say, we found a different doctor.

I've been doing some more reading on this topic since I posted this thread. Sydney's west is the highest BB region in the country at over 97%.

I live in West Sydney. I have not been to any doctor that does not Bulk Bill. In short, I thought that all doctors still Bulk Billed, and it was only in the City where they had higher expenses that they didn't. Until I visited Lil in Victoria & her doctor didn't Bulk Bill.

It is *so* true that people don't value what they don't pay for. As evidenced in this thread. People think $36 is a reasonable full payment for a one-on-one consultation with the most highly educated professionals we have? Pffft!

I don't think that the people here don't value it, rather as it is the norm (Western Sydney) for all doctors to Bulk Bill, then it will just take some getting used to. I'm happy to pay $7, but that does not mean that the doctors out this way will pass it on. If they don't pass it on, then I'm not going to go search for a different doctor that does, when I'm happy with the one I've got.

 

[DEC]

Thanks DEC, a handy ready reckoner of Drs to avoid.

Well 99% of the time I see a Dr I know what I have and am just after antibiotics to knock over a chest infection.
I sure as hell aren't about to pay $50 plus for a piece of paper when I can get one for free.

I get sick very rarely, my usual local Dr who I had been seeing for years bumped me off his client list because I rarely visited.

 

[TPI]

Thanks, TPI.

I don't like the idea of people with limited means feeling that they can't afford to go to the doctor, but I can't help but get the impression that the number of people who can afford to pay but think that bulk-billing is an entitlement far outweighs those people. The idea that people who have enough money to invest in property should be "entitled" to bulk-billing is symptomatic of what the government's trying to address.

You are right Perp.

I think if they left things as they were for kids/concession card holders and only applied the reduced rebate and co-payment to others that would strike a better overall balance.

For bulk-billing a child under 16 or Commonwealth concessional card holder a GP now gets $42.30 (or $45.40 if the clinic is located in some outer metro/regional/rural areas).

This drops to $31.30 under the new policy, ie. a huge financial disincentive to bulk-bill this group of people.

Although $7 is not much in the scheme of things, with one episode of illness that involves 2 GP visits, a blood test and an x-ray, this becomes $28, plus the extra cost of prescriptions.

It may be hard to fathom, but for some people who have very limited means, coming up with this money at the wrong time can actually be a struggle.

There is apparently evidence to say that this does not reduce health costs in the long-term as these people delay seeking healthcare when they should.

 

[TPI]

Yes, because it's not as simple as just taking $7 off each patient: AIUI there's a max of 10 x $7 in any one year for those with concession cards so the surgery has to keep a patient by patient track of all these payments. How many other businesses wouid want to handle thousands of trackable $7 payments each year?

Yes and the 10 visits includes all clinics you attend, as well as any pathology or imaging (x-ray etc.) services you use.

The government has allocated $500,000 to establish how to actually do this in practice.

 

[Perp]

Well 99% of the time I see a Dr I know what I have and am just after antibiotics to knock over a chest infection.
I sure as hell aren't about to pay $50 plus for a piece of paper when I can get one for free.

How do you know that you have a bacterial infection rather than a virus? How do you know which antibiotics are most likely to be effective?

It's a bit like the old apocryphal tale:

A giant ship engine failed. The ship's owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure but how to fix the engine.

Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was a young. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom.

Two of the ship's owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something. Instantly, the engine lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer away.

The engine was fixed! A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for ten thousand dollars.

"What?!" the owners exclaimed. "He hardly did anything!"
So they wrote the old man a note saying, "Please send us an itemized bill."

The man sent a bill that read:

Tapping with a hammer....................... $ 2.00
Knowing where to tap.......................... $ 9,998.00

I think if they left things as they were for kids/concession card holders and only applied the reduced rebate and co-payment to others that would strike a better overall balance.

Agreed.

 

[Perp]

I don't think that the people here don't value it, rather as it is the norm (Western Sydney) for all doctors to Bulk Bill, then it will just take some getting used to.

I get that it's become the norm in some places; I think that's precisely the problem. I don't blame the people living in those places, I'm just saying that I do think it's a problem that needs to be redressed. Many GPs have done their profession a great disservice by extending bulk-billing far beyond the purpose it was ever intended to fulfill. Though I also get that it's hard to charge when nobody else around you does.

I suspect that the government is trying to get around exactly that problem - patients won't pay because everybody bulk bills, doctors bulk bill because patients won't pay and go to other doctors - by enforcing what should be the norm: at least some contribution from patients who can afford to make one. (Acknowledging that I don't think that the proposed policy achieves that very well. :/)

 

[mrsdawnrazor]

The $5 to medical research is funny. Money doesn't go into separate pots, each to be doled out, it goes into 1 big pot to be allocated.
Case in point - 38.5 cents paid per litre of fuel as a road levy, 13c per litre actually goes to roads. Each government can change how they spend their money so promising $5 of every consultation (with all caveats of calculation and payments) is a crock.

As were the rebates funded by the mining tax.

So I am not expecting Australia to cure cancer any time soon.

 

[weg]

So I am not expecting Australia to cure cancer any time soon.

I think we have a far greater chance of curing cancer than say... controlling the weather .

 

[Angel]

I think we have a far greater chance of curing cancer than say... controlling the weather .

Nice one Weg

 

[Of The Vultures]

When I used to live in Western Sydney, every doctor bulk billed. Moved nearly 5 years ago to Perth then Tassie and haven't come across a bulk billing doctor in that whole time. My current practice charges $70 for a standard consult.

 

[Ausprop]

When I used to live in Western Sydney, every doctor bulk billed. Moved nearly 5 years ago to Perth then Tassie and haven't come across a bulk billing doctor in that whole time. My current practice charges $70 for a standard consult.

I wouldn't know of anywhere remotely close to where I live that bulk bills. For some reason I imagined it was just one or two dodgy clinics frequented by drug addicts, hadn't occurred to me to ever go to one.... sort of like the citizens advice bureau- a free service if that's all you can afford

 

[Ausprop]

perhaps we need a new thread - Will the $7 fee pop the western Sydney property bubble?

 

[D.T.]

perhaps we need a new thread - Will the $7 fee pop the western Sydney property bubble?

Of course it will. Ability to bulk bill is only reason they live in the area

 

[Strannik]

I suspect that the government is trying to get around exactly that problem - patients won't pay because everybody bulk bills, doctors bulk bill because patients won't pay and go to other doctors - by enforcing what should be the norm: at least some contribution from patients who can afford to make one. (Acknowledging that I don't think that the proposed policy achieves that very well. :/)

that's called medicare levy.

 

[Scott No Mates]

When I used to live in Western Sydney, every doctor bulk billed. Moved nearly 5 years ago to Perth t.

A bit rich calling western Sydney "Perth".

 

[Perp]

that's called medicare levy.

Medicare levy isn't full payment for any claims you may need to make; it's more like paying your insurance policy premium. When you make a claim, you still have a deductible to pay.

 

[Corey Batt]

I just received a text message from a medical centre I've used previously:

"No-Copayment required, $0 bulk billing still available at xyz Medical Centre. Call x. To unsubsribe reply yes"

I wonder if they saw a drop off in patients directly after the budget was announced?

 

[Scott No Mates]

"No-Copayment required, $0 bulk billing still available at xyz Medical Centre. Call x. To unsubsribe reply yes"

I wonder if they saw a drop off in patients directly after the budget was announced?

Meaningless fear mongering to drive up business - no one is charging the copayment (unless of course they aren't bulk billing).

 

[TPI]

I just received a text message from a medical centre I've used previously:

"No-Copayment required, $0 bulk billing still available at xyz Medical Centre. Call x. To unsubsribe reply yes"

I wonder if they saw a drop off in patients directly after the budget was announced?

Seems like scaremongering, the proposed policy only starts in July 2015, assuming it proceeds in its current form.

 

[Strannik]

Medicare levy isn't full payment for any claims you may need to make; it's more like paying your insurance policy premium. When you make a claim, you still have a deductible to pay.

where is the option to self insure then?