Um, they do, if you read the loan agreement!
They may not require you to furnish the certificate every year, as they do at the outset, but you're still required to have it.
Bush Fire Victims and Insurance
- Thread starter letiha
- Start date
They may not require you to furnish the certificate every year, as they do at the outset, but you're still required to have it.
I agree that you must have insurance however, I lived in Flowerdale at the time of the fires in November 1982 (the ones that burnt out some of Flowerdale before the Ash Wednesday fires) and in the next week after those November fires we got a letter from the insurance company (a big well known one) saying that they were cancelling our insurance because it was too risky. After Ash Wednesday (which didnt affect us) my then husband and I sold up the little house we had built from scratch and moved back to Melbourne. On Australia Day this year (12 days before the fires) I drove back through Flowerdale to show my now partner the house I had helped to build 26 years ago....I'm so glad I did, I have great pics of the area which will never be the same again.
In now live in canberra and, in another story about insurance, For part of 2003-2005, I managed the planning team that did all the single house residential development approvals for the bushfire rebuilding after the 2003 Canberra bushfires and it was common to see our clients having to get new top up loans to cover rebuilding because they had been underinsured. I now tend to over insure my house and price it at about $2500 per sq metreto rebuild rather than the standard $1200-$1800 per sq metre.
Another phenomenon I noticed was that some people who had the little government houses from the 60s and 70s and didnt lose their houses were often somewhat resentful when their neighbours got to put up spiffy new McMansions.......... it was interesting to hear about stuff like that.
So, always make sure your insurance wil actually cover what you need to cover, especially if you live in a vulnerable environment.
Regardless, my heart goes out to those poor people.
In now live in canberra and, in another story about insurance, For part of 2003-2005, I managed the planning team that did all the single house residential development approvals for the bushfire rebuilding after the 2003 Canberra bushfires and it was common to see our clients having to get new top up loans to cover rebuilding because they had been underinsured. I now tend to over insure my house and price it at about $2500 per sq metreto rebuild rather than the standard $1200-$1800 per sq metre.
Another phenomenon I noticed was that some people who had the little government houses from the 60s and 70s and didnt lose their houses were often somewhat resentful when their neighbours got to put up spiffy new McMansions.......... it was interesting to hear about stuff like that.
So, always make sure your insurance wil actually cover what you need to cover, especially if you live in a vulnerable environment.
Regardless, my heart goes out to those poor people.
$30mil is not very much at all.
Fmx-rider,
There are a few 1-3 million dollar properties out that way.
OZ-perp,
if you can't afford to insure it, you can't afford to have it in the first place.
Being uninsured is plain irresponsible.
Sorry but this statement is far from correct. Some people like myself feel that insurance is not always necessary. When it comes to properties yes I insure but when it comes to cars and other things I don't. If I have an accident I will simply pay for it. If something gets stolen I will simply replace it.
My thinking is if you can't afford to have it stolen or damaged then don't buy it.
I have at least 5-6 cars at any one time. Insuring them all will cost around 5K or more per year. I haven't caused any accidents in over 30 years but have saved a lot on insurance. I will not let the negative fear that insurance companies like to promote cloud my positive lifestyle.
It is not being irresponsible if you are prepared to pay for any thing that happens and have the money to do so. Would be amazed at how many big businesses have started in the beginning with no insurance coverage. (Virgin, Fox, Micro Soft are just a few. Read a few bibliographies and you will see for yourself a very common theme)
Fmx-rider,
There are a few 1-3 million dollar properties out that way.
OZ-perp,
if you can't afford to insure it, you can't afford to have it in the first place.
Being uninsured is plain irresponsible.
Sorry but this statement is far from correct. Some people like myself feel that insurance is not always necessary. When it comes to properties yes I insure but when it comes to cars and other things I don't. If I have an accident I will simply pay for it. If something gets stolen I will simply replace it.
My thinking is if you can't afford to have it stolen or damaged then don't buy it.
I have at least 5-6 cars at any one time. Insuring them all will cost around 5K or more per year. I haven't caused any accidents in over 30 years but have saved a lot on insurance. I will not let the negative fear that insurance companies like to promote cloud my positive lifestyle.
It is not being irresponsible if you are prepared to pay for any thing that happens and have the money to do so. Would be amazed at how many big businesses have started in the beginning with no insurance coverage. (Virgin, Fox, Micro Soft are just a few. Read a few bibliographies and you will see for yourself a very common theme)
I think you are talking semantics. Ozperp and I were talking house insurance; can anyone afford to have their house damaged (destroyed) and simply replace it?
These days, any business that does not have professional indemnity or public liability insurance is simply asking for disaster. The world is a much more litigious place these days. You wont be accepted for Government contracts without it. Workers compensation insurance is compulsory anyway.
HI there Savanna
you probably would have assessed our rebuild in Canberra. I note that we had refinanced loans one month before the Canberra bushfires and still found we were underinsured when it came to the crunch (we had to reflect the bank's value for insurance). Unfortunately you can't anticipate the cost of all the planning changes from a house built in the 70s to a property built in 2003 and you can't anticipate the extra costs it takes to rebuild when there are so many other properties which too have to be rebuilt. Unfortunately, the bushfire victims will be affected by the extra costs of delays and the fact that there will be so many builders required to get things up and running again and because of the scarcity - the builders will be able to charge above market for the rebuilding.
thanks
you probably would have assessed our rebuild in Canberra. I note that we had refinanced loans one month before the Canberra bushfires and still found we were underinsured when it came to the crunch (we had to reflect the bank's value for insurance). Unfortunately you can't anticipate the cost of all the planning changes from a house built in the 70s to a property built in 2003 and you can't anticipate the extra costs it takes to rebuild when there are so many other properties which too have to be rebuilt. Unfortunately, the bushfire victims will be affected by the extra costs of delays and the fact that there will be so many builders required to get things up and running again and because of the scarcity - the builders will be able to charge above market for the rebuilding.
thanks
Power Plus
I was a Retained Fireman with NSW Fire Brigade for over 20 yrs and also employed at What is now Integral Energy.
As a fireman i cannot believe the people that had HUGE homes worth BIG $ that had NO INSURANCE . Their theory was that they had not had a fire so they did not need insurance. (It was always everyone else that had fires, storms, etc)
Then when they had a total destruction they thought the community should cover their loss.
When you asked as to why no insurance they just said they never thought it would effect them.
At the same time I worked with Integral Energy on Emergency Services .
I saw a lot of action. Common things. Fires. Accidents. Storm Damage etc .
A uninsured vehicle hits a power pole & snaps it. As the live 11000 volt lines fall down they contact the low voltage lines below. This blows up every switchboard and appliance/computer within a kilometre or more. And also trips off a couple of thousand houses & businesess.
The repairs add up to massive amounts.
So do not ever under estimate paying basic BOMB Insurance .Even for a $800 car
Or search out GOING BANKRUPT
I was a Retained Fireman with NSW Fire Brigade for over 20 yrs and also employed at What is now Integral Energy.
As a fireman i cannot believe the people that had HUGE homes worth BIG $ that had NO INSURANCE . Their theory was that they had not had a fire so they did not need insurance. (It was always everyone else that had fires, storms, etc)
Then when they had a total destruction they thought the community should cover their loss.
When you asked as to why no insurance they just said they never thought it would effect them.
At the same time I worked with Integral Energy on Emergency Services .
I saw a lot of action. Common things. Fires. Accidents. Storm Damage etc .
A uninsured vehicle hits a power pole & snaps it. As the live 11000 volt lines fall down they contact the low voltage lines below. This blows up every switchboard and appliance/computer within a kilometre or more. And also trips off a couple of thousand houses & businesess.
The repairs add up to massive amounts.
So do not ever under estimate paying basic BOMB Insurance .Even for a $800 car
Or search out GOING BANKRUPT
sorry tracey, i have to agree with boomtown. Just coz they didn't get insurance, they still lost everything and possibly loved ones. Gosh, there are so many things that could never be replaced.
Are you talking about 9/11 victims? So those who were responsible and paid the premiums for life insurance should just accept their $500K and get nothing from charity, whilst those who were less responsible get given $1M? Sorry, I'll never think that's a just outcome.
The ethics of using charitable donations to enrich (for many of the families $1M would be considered "rich") people whose loved ones happened to die from newsworthy causes is a whole other story... I suspect we agree on this issue.
Of course I'm happy to support things such as short-term assistance, and household items. In fact, we just decided last night to donate 30 brand-new 100% cotton sheet sets that I bought for my last development, decided not to use, and forgot to return in time.boomtown said:
They cost about $1,000, so it's not an insignificant donation, but serves the dual purpose of helping these people and not making me feel bad every time I see an expensive box of non-returnable goods in the garage. I feel profound sympathy for the people who are victims of the fires, it's just devastating.
I just don't think that those who didn't have insurance should have their material losses made good with cash at public expense (through government or charity). Sure, they can have whatever donated goods they want, I don't begrudge that, but I don't think they should be given cash to refurnish their houses, or replace their cars. That's what insurance is for.
With regards to insurance, every car driver in the country should have to have third-party property - read Gee Cee's post and see if you still think it's responsible to drive a car without insurance.
Y33, doubt even you could cover the costs of the scenario Gee Cee describes with your self-insurance.
I agree, I can't comprehend where all the money will be spent. By the way, it's up to $80M now and that doesn't include profits from today's Coles takings etc.
I agree it's a terrible situation to be put in, and for those without insurance it sucks. But if I couldn't afford insurance, I just wouldn't live in a bushfire area, or I'd just rent instead. As for those who have insurance, well that covers most if not all the expenses including accomodation while your house is being rebuilt, and all the council/govt. buildings would also be insured.
Oh, and I guarantee you within 6-9months you'll be seeing stories on TT/ACA of people demanding of the Red Cross etc to know where the money is and what it's been spent on.
I agree it's a terrible situation to be put in, and for those without insurance it sucks. But if I couldn't afford insurance, I just wouldn't live in a bushfire area, or I'd just rent instead. As for those who have insurance, well that covers most if not all the expenses including accomodation while your house is being rebuilt, and all the council/govt. buildings would also be insured.
Oh, and I guarantee you within 6-9months you'll be seeing stories on TT/ACA of people demanding of the Red Cross etc to know where the money is and what it's been spent on.
True. Didnt that happen with the Tsunami appeal? In particular Red Cross who had a large amount of money in Bank Accounts being unspent? Nothing underhand, just undistributed!
I have always thought you should insure what will send you broke. Loosing a 1992 Falcon probably wont send you broke but crashing it into a 2008 Ferrari probably will. The same for housing, loosing a one bedroom shack may not be a major problem, but a 5 bedroom McMansion probably is. It all depends on personal situations.
Donations should be used for emergency relocation and emergency personal needs. Insurance should be used to replace homes and possessions. If one decided not to insure, I don't think donations should be given to them to rebuild. This goes for community infrastructure as well. Council buildings, schools, club houses etc should have been insured by whoever controls them or or they should be prepared to replace them from their own coffers.
It's interesting when you do the sums.
Total donations $80,000,000 (according to steveadl)
Houses lost 1800 (Think thats what I heard on radio this morning)
Equals $44,444 per household
It wont replace the house and contents, but it should keep a family safe and secure for a while giving them a chance to get their life together.
I hope this does not sound heartless, While I don't personally don't know anyone who lost their house, many of my friends have friends and family that have lost everything.
Donations should be used for emergency relocation and emergency personal needs. Insurance should be used to replace homes and possessions. If one decided not to insure, I don't think donations should be given to them to rebuild. This goes for community infrastructure as well. Council buildings, schools, club houses etc should have been insured by whoever controls them or or they should be prepared to replace them from their own coffers.
It's interesting when you do the sums.
Total donations $80,000,000 (according to steveadl)
Houses lost 1800 (Think thats what I heard on radio this morning)
Equals $44,444 per household
It wont replace the house and contents, but it should keep a family safe and secure for a while giving them a chance to get their life together.
I hope this does not sound heartless, While I don't personally don't know anyone who lost their house, many of my friends have friends and family that have lost everything.
I met a girl about four years ago - very attractive, personable blonde girl who ran her little hatchback up the back of an expensive BMW. Of course, she was uninsured.
Her life had been pretty unremarkable until then, but a friend of hers suggested that she go work at a local strip club to pay back the $30,000-odd that she owed much quicker. I haven't seen her for a year and a half now, but the last time I saw her she certainly wasn't that same girl. Copius amounts of substance indulgence, which seems to come with the territory, made her almost unrecognisable. Forget about simple conversation, she was far too trashed for that.
I realise this isn't a particularly common scenario, but it was quite profound to see the real life effect of someone having their life destroyed by circumstance. I feel very guilty just thinking about the story - we laughed at the time, when she told me her plan, but today I would write up a cheque in a heartbeat and let her pay it back over the rest of her productive, unwasted life.
Her life had been pretty unremarkable until then, but a friend of hers suggested that she go work at a local strip club to pay back the $30,000-odd that she owed much quicker. I haven't seen her for a year and a half now, but the last time I saw her she certainly wasn't that same girl. Copius amounts of substance indulgence, which seems to come with the territory, made her almost unrecognisable. Forget about simple conversation, she was far too trashed for that.
I realise this isn't a particularly common scenario, but it was quite profound to see the real life effect of someone having their life destroyed by circumstance. I feel very guilty just thinking about the story - we laughed at the time, when she told me her plan, but today I would write up a cheque in a heartbeat and let her pay it back over the rest of her productive, unwasted life.
Hi Raddles and Y33
Raddles, did you sell up and move later...smart move...If I did your assessment, it was a pleasure to deal with you, i have a lot of care and concern for my bushfire affected applicants.....I hope that everything worked out for you.
Y33, i remember the camp, was it up behind the pub, I wint horse-riding there once...the only other camp there was St Kevins school camp.
Flowerdale was pretty...and will be again.
Raddles, did you sell up and move later...smart move...If I did your assessment, it was a pleasure to deal with you, i have a lot of care and concern for my bushfire affected applicants.....I hope that everything worked out for you.
Y33, i remember the camp, was it up behind the pub, I wint horse-riding there once...the only other camp there was St Kevins school camp.
Flowerdale was pretty...and will be again.
While it's a tragedy that people lost their home and loved ones, I find it hard to feel "financial" sympathy for those uninsured who lost their homes. We all have choices in life.
If you are going to rebuild the houses of the uninsured, I'd like to see the prudent homeowner who insured their home over x number of years repayed their insurance fees as part of the fund. It seems somewhat harsh, but these people sacrified their most important commodity, time, in the form of their labour, to pay for insurance, when others made a choice not to.
It's just a different way of looking at things.
If you are going to rebuild the houses of the uninsured, I'd like to see the prudent homeowner who insured their home over x number of years repayed their insurance fees as part of the fund. It seems somewhat harsh, but these people sacrified their most important commodity, time, in the form of their labour, to pay for insurance, when others made a choice not to.
It's just a different way of looking at things.
HI there Savannah
our situation was slightly different in that we already had an Ip in Canberra and had bought my parents place - so they could use their equity to build on my brother's property - we didn't want them to have to move as my Mum was suffering from Cancer and didn't need any extra stress
what we did was rebuild the family home after the bushfires.
For those who might like to review how best to help
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/content/lifestyle/1254415/
please follow the link. Unfortunately insurance doesn't cover everything you lose in a fire.
our situation was slightly different in that we already had an Ip in Canberra and had bought my parents place - so they could use their equity to build on my brother's property - we didn't want them to have to move as my Mum was suffering from Cancer and didn't need any extra stress
what we did was rebuild the family home after the bushfires.
For those who might like to review how best to help
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/content/lifestyle/1254415/
please follow the link. Unfortunately insurance doesn't cover everything you lose in a fire.
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