Can you see banks raising interest rates?

Let's see how much profit they made last year.
ANZ - $5.36 billion
CBA - $6.394 billion
NAB - $5.2 billion
Westpac - $6.991 billion.

They are really struggling aren't they?:rolleyes:
Yes impressive numbers!

Banks might well be hurting on cost of funding for mortgages, though that's relative!

Anyone noticed how the spreads on business loans and credit cards are doing, how are they hurting there? :)
 
The whole issue is funding costs is clouded in mystery and imo deliberate spin. Peoples opinion are split based on their indebtedness not to do with the issue because how does the average Jo or even above average Jo really know the true story.

By the way, why don't we hear about the times when bank funding costs reduce?

In saying that, I know of someone who works in middle management at one of the big 4, and they have clamped down on costs & budgets, that would seem to dictate significant pressure to maintain current profitability.
 
Let's see how much profit they made last year.
ANZ - $5.36 billion
CBA - $6.394 billion
NAB - $5.2 billion
Westpac - $6.991 billion.

They are really struggling aren't they?:rolleyes:

And from that Video Dazzling linked to from May 2011 they have increased considerably
scaled.php


Poor banks, it must be a terrible struggle for them.
 
These are just numbers.

No they're not, they are the "final final" profit figures after all expenses have been taken out, all of the write-downs taken off....and everything else under the sun taken off. They are the ultimate reward for many tens of thousands of workers feverishly beavering away under strict and regimented business goals.

They are feasted upon by both the ATO and the shareholders, many of which rely on them for their living expenses.


What's their actual return on investment? How much capital do the banks have in the market? Is the profit 1%, 10% or more?

If you are truly interested, you'll do the same as anyone else in the community, look up their annual reports. It's all freely available at no cost to yourself.

Your 3 banal questions are like a rusty blunt spoon, and do nothing to disect the farce of Banks bleating that "funding costs" are hurting.
 
Lets look at it in a differnt way.
Total pure profit for these 4 banks ~ $24,000,000,000.00
Number of households in 2006 ~ 7,600,000 (ABS)
- Lets assume it is about 8,000,00 households.

profit / households ~ $3000.00 profit on average per houshold!
 
Daz I don't know what the banks profit margins are over their costs and you don't appear to have answered the question either. People accuse the banks of making such large profits without putting those profits into context.

Why is it wrong for any business to make a reasonable profit and why is it wrong for a business or investor to make that profit on the backs of other peoples money or labour?

It would be very interesting to get a full understanding of banks funding costs, but what's this knowledge going to change. It's like a tenant whinging about a rent increase. The landlord can say I've got a mortgage to pay, but the tenant doesn't care about that.
 
'Tough' is a relative term i guess for the banking industry

Yep, if Westpac next year returned a 10% profit downgrade of only $ 6.3 Billion, there would be headlines screaming...

"Profits smashed - banking crash looms ?"


Then they'd all roll over, pay the appropriate success bonuses and carry on as usual. The media are a joke, and the spinsters up the very top of the Banks appeasing the media's insatiable appetite for sensationalist headlines are also a joke.


I thought Cameron Clyne's response from the NAB, on the other hand in that newsclip was quite reasonable. Nothing to extract from it really....surprised it didn't end up on the editor's cutting room floor.
 
Daz....you don't appear to have answered the question either.

Fortunately, I am not under any obligation to answer the questions you choose to ask. As I stated, if you really wish to know, all of that info and a whol ebunch more is there to peruse if you so wish. My job is not to spoon feed you stuff you don't know, or couldn't be bothered to research to know.


Why is it wrong for any business to make a reasonable profit ?

I guess we'll have to disagree on our definition of "reasonable". We are clearly diverging on the definition of that, most famous of words.
 
These are just numbers. What's their actual return on investment? How much capital do the banks have in the market? Is the profit 1%, 10% or more?

Below is a copy of the post I made in another thread.

I see a lot of ppl criticising banks regarding their lending policies. Banks gets 1000s of ppl everyday requesting for loans, they need to put in a system in place that strikes the right balance between risk and return.

Banks are in the business of lending money and making a return. But do you know what sort of return the banks make? Don't be fooled by the billions of profits they report each year. Look at the amount of assets they used to generate that profit.

Lets take a hypothetical scenario.

Bank has lend 100 loans each of $1million at 10% interest.

Bank has to pay 7% interest for using depositors funds and borrowing funds from money markets, thereby giving it a spread of 3% (10%-7%).

Interest Income received: $10 million (100 x $1m x 10%)

Interest Income payed: $7 million

Gross Profit: $3 million

General, Sales, Admin costs: $1 million
(Bank has operating expenses: salary, rent etc.)

Income before tax: $2 million

Tax @ 30%: $600K

Income after tax: $1.4 million

So the bank made a profit of $1.4m on asset of $100 million. The return is a whopping 1.4% ($1.4m x 100/ $100m)

As you can see there is not much room for banks if the default rate increases and asset value decreases simultaneously. The $1.4m profit will be gone fairly quickly.

Banks need to be conservative because the aggressive ones have long since gone bankrupt.

Cheers,
Oracle.

Coming back to some real numbers from balance sheet of CBA's 2011 FY Annual Report.

Total Assets: $668 Billion
Total Liabilities: $630 Billion

Net Profit After Tax: $6.4 Billion

That gives a return on assets of 0.96%. Or 16.84% return on equity ($38 Billion).

By the way CBA is the most profitable of the big 4. So you can imagine what the numbers on the other 3 would look like.

If the value of assets go down 1% that wipes out the $6.4 billion profit.

I think it's worth repeating what I said in the other post. Banks need to be conservative because the aggressive ones have long since gone bankrupt.

Cheers,
Oracle.
 
What an absolute crock.

Either ;

1. You are lying
2. You have no idea of the real picture and are swallowing what you are being told, or
3. The Directors of the Big 4 Banks are lying their **** off to the ASX reporting mechanism.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1F9bDf1950


I suspect # 2.

That's rich Dazz, calling my post above yours an absolute crock. Who said I worked for a big 4 bank? :rolleyes: I just said a bank.

I can't say anything about the big 4 so I won't... No need to go and pre-emptively call me a liar, OK?

Let's see how much profit they made last year.
ANZ - $5.36 billion
CBA - $6.394 billion
NAB - $5.2 billion
Westpac - $6.991 billion.

They are really struggling aren't they?:rolleyes:

Not all banks are for profit :rolleyes:

Forget I said anything, guys, clearly I don't know what I'm talking about, especially not with having just worked on the revised budget and seen whati it's doing to our bottom line :rolleyes:
 
What an absolute crock.

Either ;

1. You are lying
2. You have no idea of the real picture and are swallowing what you are being told, or
3. The Directors of the Big 4 Banks are lying their **** off to the ASX reporting mechanism.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1F9bDf1950


I suspect # 2.

or 4. Daz doesnt know what he is talking about.

I suspect # 4, especially after UBS's banking analyst went through this very issue.

UBS analyst specialising in banking, or DAZ
 
If anyone here actually understood how money works the numbers are simply staggering because they are literally creating that money out of thin air and charging you for it....now which other business can do that?
 
Let's see how much profit they made last year.
ANZ - $5.36 billion
CBA - $6.394 billion
NAB - $5.2 billion
Westpac - $6.991 billion.

They are really struggling aren't they?:rolleyes:

and how big are these companies, CBA for starters has a market cap of $78 billion. So lets see profit of $6.3billion divided by market cap of $78billion equals an earnings yield of 8%. Pretty much on par with some forms of commercial property.

Ah but thats market cap i hear you saying (ie what the market is prepared to pay for this business), what about owners equity (ie shareholders actual equity, not share price x shares on issue)? Well share holders equity is $37 billion. That improved the underlying earnings yield on the business from 8% to 17%.

Much better, so yes it appears that the big 4 banks are good money creators:p

However are they profit gouging from collecting the spread from borrowing and lending????

No. CBA's net interest margin has declined from 2.8% in 2002 to 2.2% in 2011. So their net interest margins have actually been declining.

So how has CBA been able to maintain growth in its earnings.
(a) by lending more
(b) by 'non-interest income'. 40% of cba income comes from 'non-interest income', bank charges, fees, trading profits etc etc. Now with legal companies launching class action legal suites for excessive fees, part of this area is now under pressure. So there is no way that the big 4 are going to comprimise anyfuther on a reduction in their net income margins.
 
.

By the way, why don't we hear about the times when bank funding costs reduce?
.

You did, but this was pre-GFC times, when the banks were happy to lend at rates closer to the RBA rate, especially with securitisation. Securitisation was great for lowering the spreads. Unfortunately people have woken up to the risks of this.
 
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