B
brains
Guest
Does anyone know the furom member who was selling the Cashflow 101 game a while back at a 20% discount? I think he was in SA.
Thanks
Thanks
B
brains
Guest
Thanks
I'll send a pm to them now. I'll try 101 and contemplate 202 later.
I'll send a pm to them now. I'll try 101 and contemplate 202 later.
The SA person would have been newlywed Boyler Room
Is it spam if I reply to such a post?
send an email to [email protected]
and a purchase order will be sent to you.
Regards
Michael
send an email to [email protected]
and a purchase order will be sent to you.
Regards
Michael
Great game and highly educational, but I reckon for a bit more realism there should be more 'chance' cards which reinforce the risks more.
Eg 'Tenants wreck properties and you're uninsured - pay $1000 for each property you own'.
Or 'Interest rates increase 5% and your properties go cashflow negative - pay $5000 or forfeit 50% of your portfolio.'
As it stands the main risks are having kids, which I don't like as this is a contribution (though in another form) to society.
Peter
Eg 'Tenants wreck properties and you're uninsured - pay $1000 for each property you own'.
Or 'Interest rates increase 5% and your properties go cashflow negative - pay $5000 or forfeit 50% of your portfolio.'
As it stands the main risks are having kids, which I don't like as this is a contribution (though in another form) to society.
Peter
Huh - cashflow's gotten a bit boring lately.
Played a game with Jas last night (202).
She got out with three Spare Time cards, only had one shot at buying a property & decided not to, bought some options but they got wiped out - income entering big circle of: $1.2M
I got out by borrowing $100K, purchasing a block of units, having it hit by pollution & paid another 50K to clean up - income on -$9K, with 18K in my pocket....then hit a sell units card, sold then & made $200K, got downsized....then I got three spare time cards, and out of the rat race - income entering big circle of: $700K
I got to hold a Duplex & picked up a Computer Program passive stream, but essentially the game didn't involve property.
We were both out within 1 and a half times around the rat race.
And game over in under 40 minutes....
Robert says that good players make their own luck, well this was a fairly amazing game even in that regard.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
PS: Jas beat me as usual
Played a game with Jas last night (202).
She got out with three Spare Time cards, only had one shot at buying a property & decided not to, bought some options but they got wiped out - income entering big circle of: $1.2M
I got out by borrowing $100K, purchasing a block of units, having it hit by pollution & paid another 50K to clean up - income on -$9K, with 18K in my pocket....then hit a sell units card, sold then & made $200K, got downsized....then I got three spare time cards, and out of the rat race - income entering big circle of: $700K
I got to hold a Duplex & picked up a Computer Program passive stream, but essentially the game didn't involve property.
We were both out within 1 and a half times around the rat race.
And game over in under 40 minutes....
Robert says that good players make their own luck, well this was a fairly amazing game even in that regard.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
PS: Jas beat me as usual
G'day all,
Don't know CF202 - but it sounds like "Spare Time Cards" might be a bit too prevalent in CF202 perhaps........
The word I've heard, though, is - "If you can get out of the Ratrace in under an hour, 6 times in a row, you don't need the game any more"
Thoughts? Sound right?
Regards,
Don't know CF202 - but it sounds like "Spare Time Cards" might be a bit too prevalent in CF202 perhaps........
The word I've heard, though, is - "If you can get out of the Ratrace in under an hour, 6 times in a row, you don't need the game any more"
Thoughts? Sound right?
Regards,
Les,
It's partially chance, partially skill, so I don't think you can be played out.
I find that replaying the game every few months is a great way to reaffirm the principals and refocus on my personal goals.
It also provides a reason to get together with like-minded people - always valuable.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
Sometimes a link with the past can help- for a better gaming experience, what about expanding on an old idea?
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=250
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=250
I like playing it with a variety of people. I like to see other's styles.
I played with some older folks once, and all they wanted to do was pay out their debts. (they got made redundant many times, got three kids and basically went round and round)
Really hit home for me what the older generation wanted.
Jas
I played with some older folks once, and all they wanted to do was pay out their debts. (they got made redundant many times, got three kids and basically went round and round)
Really hit home for me what the older generation wanted.
Jas
I recently bought this new property investing game:
https://secure.webenz.co.nz/hpc/board_game.php
Would it be against copyright laws to post all of the rules or even some of the rules?
Sample:
Strategies To Win
Watch the Real Estate Cycle Clock and analyse the effects the cycle clock will have on your progress towards your Equity and Passive Cashflow goals.
Be careful about buying during the boom as the slump that follows will impact significantly on your equity.
It may pay to pass up some opportunities so you can accumulate cash for higher deposits or to buy bigger opportunities (ie flats).
It may pay to pay off some of your mortgage debt as this has a positive impact on your Passive Cashflow and Equity levels.
Remember not all opportunities are equal, so carefully assess the impact the opportunities will have on your goal progress and your liquidity (ie available cash or credit in the event of an interest rate spike or other unforseen event).
An overview of the game can be found at:
http://www.goodreturns.co.nz/books/product_info.php?products_id=148&affiliateID=5
Regards, Mike
https://secure.webenz.co.nz/hpc/board_game.php
Would it be against copyright laws to post all of the rules or even some of the rules?
Sample:
Strategies To Win
Watch the Real Estate Cycle Clock and analyse the effects the cycle clock will have on your progress towards your Equity and Passive Cashflow goals.
Be careful about buying during the boom as the slump that follows will impact significantly on your equity.
It may pay to pass up some opportunities so you can accumulate cash for higher deposits or to buy bigger opportunities (ie flats).
It may pay to pay off some of your mortgage debt as this has a positive impact on your Passive Cashflow and Equity levels.
Remember not all opportunities are equal, so carefully assess the impact the opportunities will have on your goal progress and your liquidity (ie available cash or credit in the event of an interest rate spike or other unforseen event).
An overview of the game can be found at:
http://www.goodreturns.co.nz/books/product_info.php?products_id=148&affiliateID=5
Regards, Mike
Hi Geoff and Aceyducey,
I have already received the game which is why I was able to give you a snippet from the rules which is a 23 page booklet that is smaller in size than the 13 page CF101 rules book.
Geoff, I simply ordered it from the website and paid by credit card. It arrived a few days later.
I think this game has more similarities to CF101 than Monopoly in that it attempts to give the player a more realistic experience to investing. Of the three games I think the Hybrid game is more relevant for property investors.
I've read the rules and looked at the cards but haven't played yet so can't give you feedback on the group playing experience.
The objective of the game is to be the first player to achieve your allocated (as stated on your job card) financial goals (ie Equity [EQ] & Passive Cashflow [PC]) by accumulating a suitable property portfolio. Unlike CF101 and Monopoly, the Hybrid game appears to focus on the Buy and Hold strategy. You are out of the game if you are bankrupt at any stage. This can occur if you exceed 90% LVR and are unable to reduce the LVR to 90% or less OR are unable to meet any financial commitment at any time. Neither CF101 or Monopoly mentions LVRs from memory.
Interestingly, you cannot avoid bankruptcy by selling off some of your portfolio. You can only reduce the LVR by reducing the mortgage amount by using cash or credit card borrowings. Your credit card limit varies with your job card. So the credit card limit for a policeman is $10,000 but for a pilot it is $18,000.
I mentioned the job cards which are simpler than those in CF101. They contain:
Equity goal eg $600,000
Passive Cashflow goal eg $60,000
Starting Day Pay eg $20,400
Credit Card Limit eg $10,000
Your Tax Rate eg MEDIUM (others are HIGH or LOW)
The game simplifies the PC calculations by eliminating regular expenses defined in CF101 eg children and cars. There are cash penalties to pay in the wild cards depending on the state of the economy and the market eg during the Recovery phase you may pay $1,000 per property to local council for a rates levy increase. Or an international crisis causes the economy to stall so you pay 10% of starting pay.
There are no property expenses to use in calculations because each opportunity (property) card gives you the final after tax passive cashflow amount depending on your tax rate H/M/L and whether you bought with a 10% or 20% deposit. Some properties will only allow you to purchase with a 20% deposit. This game was designed by a Kiwi and perhaps negative geared properties are uncommon in New Zealand but every property in this game comes out with a positive passive cashflow. Or perhaps the designer is telling us never to buy property when the after tax cashflow is negative.
These are some of the minor differences between CF101 and Hybrid but the major differences are that Hybrid is property centred and so doesn't include stocks and businesses. The market cards in CF101 are supply and demand oriented rather than economy cycle driven as with Hybrid. In CF101 there are more buyers for houses and plexes than for apartments and condos. This leads to a buy and sell strategy rather than buy and hold. With Hybrid the property cycle is constantly moving through the classic phases and forces you to time your purchases appropriately to minimise the risk of your LVR pushing above 90%. When you buy a property the opportunity card tells you the VALUE of the property along with the purchase price. During a Slump and Recovery phase the purchase price is usually less than the value of the property where properties are bought in a Boom the value is the same as the purchase price so no additional equity is added.
Tell me if you think a look at the rules book would help make a buying decision and I will ask the game owner whether I can create and make available the rule book in PDF format.
Regards, Mike
I have already received the game which is why I was able to give you a snippet from the rules which is a 23 page booklet that is smaller in size than the 13 page CF101 rules book.
Geoff, I simply ordered it from the website and paid by credit card. It arrived a few days later.
I think this game has more similarities to CF101 than Monopoly in that it attempts to give the player a more realistic experience to investing. Of the three games I think the Hybrid game is more relevant for property investors.
I've read the rules and looked at the cards but haven't played yet so can't give you feedback on the group playing experience.
The objective of the game is to be the first player to achieve your allocated (as stated on your job card) financial goals (ie Equity [EQ] & Passive Cashflow [PC]) by accumulating a suitable property portfolio. Unlike CF101 and Monopoly, the Hybrid game appears to focus on the Buy and Hold strategy. You are out of the game if you are bankrupt at any stage. This can occur if you exceed 90% LVR and are unable to reduce the LVR to 90% or less OR are unable to meet any financial commitment at any time. Neither CF101 or Monopoly mentions LVRs from memory.
Interestingly, you cannot avoid bankruptcy by selling off some of your portfolio. You can only reduce the LVR by reducing the mortgage amount by using cash or credit card borrowings. Your credit card limit varies with your job card. So the credit card limit for a policeman is $10,000 but for a pilot it is $18,000.
I mentioned the job cards which are simpler than those in CF101. They contain:
Equity goal eg $600,000
Passive Cashflow goal eg $60,000
Starting Day Pay eg $20,400
Credit Card Limit eg $10,000
Your Tax Rate eg MEDIUM (others are HIGH or LOW)
The game simplifies the PC calculations by eliminating regular expenses defined in CF101 eg children and cars. There are cash penalties to pay in the wild cards depending on the state of the economy and the market eg during the Recovery phase you may pay $1,000 per property to local council for a rates levy increase. Or an international crisis causes the economy to stall so you pay 10% of starting pay.
There are no property expenses to use in calculations because each opportunity (property) card gives you the final after tax passive cashflow amount depending on your tax rate H/M/L and whether you bought with a 10% or 20% deposit. Some properties will only allow you to purchase with a 20% deposit. This game was designed by a Kiwi and perhaps negative geared properties are uncommon in New Zealand but every property in this game comes out with a positive passive cashflow. Or perhaps the designer is telling us never to buy property when the after tax cashflow is negative.
These are some of the minor differences between CF101 and Hybrid but the major differences are that Hybrid is property centred and so doesn't include stocks and businesses. The market cards in CF101 are supply and demand oriented rather than economy cycle driven as with Hybrid. In CF101 there are more buyers for houses and plexes than for apartments and condos. This leads to a buy and sell strategy rather than buy and hold. With Hybrid the property cycle is constantly moving through the classic phases and forces you to time your purchases appropriately to minimise the risk of your LVR pushing above 90%. When you buy a property the opportunity card tells you the VALUE of the property along with the purchase price. During a Slump and Recovery phase the purchase price is usually less than the value of the property where properties are bought in a Boom the value is the same as the purchase price so no additional equity is added.
Tell me if you think a look at the rules book would help make a buying decision and I will ask the game owner whether I can create and make available the rule book in PDF format.
Regards, Mike
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For a good animated multimedia demonstration of Cashflow 101 go to:
http://media.richdad.com/cashflow4_teaser.html
http://media.richdad.com/cashflow4_teaser.html
G'day Mike,
That's a good one, mate - buy a boat AFTER you buy an asset!!!
Anyone who has played Cashflow will certainly relate to it. Anyone who HASN'T yet played Cashflow, check out the link anyway - it has a good lesson in it - then join us at the next Cashflow game opportunity.
Regards,
That's a good one, mate - buy a boat AFTER you buy an asset!!!
Anyone who has played Cashflow will certainly relate to it. Anyone who HASN'T yet played Cashflow, check out the link anyway - it has a good lesson in it - then join us at the next Cashflow game opportunity.
Regards,
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your comments about my game!
A colleague and I actually invented the game and we launched it early this year. You have 1 of only a few copies sold to Australia as we don't have a distributor in Australia (yet). Interestingly we have already sold games all over the world i.e. UK, Hong Kong etc
You have given a very good overview of the game and raised some valid points which I will answer for you.
You are right, our game is SPECIFICALLY designed by property investors for property investors who want to learn more about the traditional "buy and hold" strategy. CF101 includes business and shares and Monopoly is more of a development game (i.e. buy land and then build houses to increase rent).
Negative geared properties are quite common in NZ but we can still easily get positive geared properties in our major cities here.
We are however teaching players of the game that EVEN WHEN YOUR PROPERTIES ARE ALL POSITIVELY GEARED you can still struggle to reach your financial goals if you don't understand the classic property cycle phases and its progression through those phases. Personally I ONLY buy positive geared properties.
Lets face it, you NEVER want to be in a financial position where you HAVE to sell, do you? That is why you CAN'T sell in the game. It is designed to force you to learn how to build a portfolio with NO OPTION to sell properties. It's all too easy to be reckless as an investor when you justify to yourself... well I can always sell up, but this is a naive attitude. If you do get in a financial position where you have to sell then do you not think that other investors may also be in that same position? For example if vacancy rates start to increase and rents decrease and interest rates spike by a couple of % in a relatively short period do you not think there may be PLENTY of property investors deciding to cash up...
This is commonly called a property market CRASH. This is when property investors typically are bankrupted due to their financial resources being almost completely in property.
Don't get me wrong...I love property and it is my preferred investment vehicle but throughout my 20 year finance career and as an investor myself I have experienced the traditional property cycle several times and have seen first hand the impacts the property cycle can have on both wealth creation and wealth destruction.
The rules are protected by Copyright and we have an international patent on the game and the "property clock" within the game has an international trademark.
Mike, I will however permit you to reproduce (and distribute for free) pages 1-12 and the strategies to win portion on page 22 in pdf format so others can see what it's all about. This gives ample overview of the game and how it works.
I appreciate your comments Mike, If you are ever in Auckland look me up.
Thanks for your comments about my game!
A colleague and I actually invented the game and we launched it early this year. You have 1 of only a few copies sold to Australia as we don't have a distributor in Australia (yet). Interestingly we have already sold games all over the world i.e. UK, Hong Kong etc
You have given a very good overview of the game and raised some valid points which I will answer for you.
You are right, our game is SPECIFICALLY designed by property investors for property investors who want to learn more about the traditional "buy and hold" strategy. CF101 includes business and shares and Monopoly is more of a development game (i.e. buy land and then build houses to increase rent).
Negative geared properties are quite common in NZ but we can still easily get positive geared properties in our major cities here.
We are however teaching players of the game that EVEN WHEN YOUR PROPERTIES ARE ALL POSITIVELY GEARED you can still struggle to reach your financial goals if you don't understand the classic property cycle phases and its progression through those phases. Personally I ONLY buy positive geared properties.
Lets face it, you NEVER want to be in a financial position where you HAVE to sell, do you? That is why you CAN'T sell in the game. It is designed to force you to learn how to build a portfolio with NO OPTION to sell properties. It's all too easy to be reckless as an investor when you justify to yourself... well I can always sell up, but this is a naive attitude. If you do get in a financial position where you have to sell then do you not think that other investors may also be in that same position? For example if vacancy rates start to increase and rents decrease and interest rates spike by a couple of % in a relatively short period do you not think there may be PLENTY of property investors deciding to cash up...
This is commonly called a property market CRASH. This is when property investors typically are bankrupted due to their financial resources being almost completely in property.
Don't get me wrong...I love property and it is my preferred investment vehicle but throughout my 20 year finance career and as an investor myself I have experienced the traditional property cycle several times and have seen first hand the impacts the property cycle can have on both wealth creation and wealth destruction.
The rules are protected by Copyright and we have an international patent on the game and the "property clock" within the game has an international trademark.
Mike, I will however permit you to reproduce (and distribute for free) pages 1-12 and the strategies to win portion on page 22 in pdf format so others can see what it's all about. This gives ample overview of the game and how it works.
I appreciate your comments Mike, If you are ever in Auckland look me up.
Kieran, since I live in the UK and the game is with me I think it should be marked down as a UK sale rather than an Australian sale.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, Kieran and allowing me to reproduce some of the rule book. I think it will give people a better feel for the game and help their buying decision.
Today there is a Cashflow 101 game organised in central London which I'll be attending. I'm taking along your Hybrid game to show and hopefully play. I'm interested to get reactions and feedback from seasoned CF101 players.
I'll report back later.
Regards, Mike
PS I see that that the word Hybrid is used as the name of the building and your consulting business as well as the game. What are the origins of that word?
PPS Do you have a distributor in the UK, yet? I know of a couple of high profile UK investors with business systems in place who could distribute them in the UK for you. Let me know if I can help.
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