Chilling firestorm Video from Victoria bushfires

[Perp]

Y33, please accept my sincerest condolences for the loss of so many friends. It is difficult for the rest of us to comprehend a tragedy on this scale, with victims so geographically concentrated.

Although I agree with Ian's sentiments about insurance, I cannot support the way that he's expressed them in this thread.

I'm sure the reason that people have given so much money is that they do feel enormous compassion for those affected. We want to help, and appeals for money provide a focus; an outlet for those touched by this devastating loss of life to express their support.

I do hope, though, that only a small portion of those funds are used to replace the material losses of individuals; I would love for the majority to be used for enhancing the quality of life of the survivors, and minimising future loss of life. I'd like to see it mostly used for projects such as rebuilding the social life of the affected communities, counselling and other support services for survivors, education and research about minimising future impact of bushfires, etc.

 

[ianvestor]

There is nothing funny about the loss of life that has occurred and affected members of this forum.

I agree completely Y33, and I'm sorry to hear about your friends.

But there is something very funny about being told to 'get over it', when I wasn't the one getting all worked up.

 

[csc]

I agree completely Y33, and I'm sorry to hear about your friends.

But there is something very funny about being told to 'get over it', when I wasn't the one getting all worked up.

Thank christ im not sitting at a table having lunch with you ian..i would honestly give you a clip around the ears! Its exactly what arrogance like yours deserves.

You need to have a long hard look at yourself and develop some real empathy for people cause your apology is so insincere.



End of the issue for me, rave on all your like.

 

[ianvestor]

Thank christ im not sitting at a table having lunch with you ian..i would honestly give you a clip around the ears! Its exactly what arrogance like yours deserves.

Could someone please move this to the Anger Management thread?

There is no justification for violence.

 

[csc]

i rest my case champ!

when mud sticks, wear it...

enjoy your day..

 

[crc_error]

I have to agree with ianvestor. I dont see what the $100 million is actually for?

Rebuilding roads? schools? Sports clubs? Houses? power lines?

These are the responsibility of governments, council, utilities, and insurance.

If someone is stupid enough not to have house insurance, then that's their problem. Especially living in such a high risk area. On a current affair there was a couple going on about how they just had new carpet installed, but they didnt have insurance and now lost everything.. what a joke, they can afford new carpet, but not the $500 to insure their most valuable asset? Plus I think they are breaching their loan agreement as well, as bank loans require you to have current insurance.

This donated money should go to the RSPCA, who relies on donations to perform their work, the purchase of additional fire fighting equipments like trucks, more water bombers, etc.. but I dont see why each house hold should get $100k just because they are in a bush fire.

Is this tragedy any worse than someone else losing their home not related to bush fires? Does the community donate to rebuild to these victims? What about all the communities who lost their homes in the QLD floods?

Sure I think its terrible what happened, but handing them $$$ is not the right thing to do.

 

[Pushka]

In SA there was an 80 year old lady whose house last night was burned down because someone set alight her front fence and the flames went into the roof. She lost her cat, and her possessions and her house. She will get nothing from the Government, no immediate payment, rent relief, or donations. But her loss is no less than the bushfire victims.

 

[crc_error]

In SA there was an 80 year old lady whose house last night was burned down because someone set alight her front fence and the flames went into the roof. She lost her cat, and her possessions and her house. She will get nothing from the Government, no immediate payment, rent relief, or donations. But her loss is no less than the bushfire victims.

totally agree!

I recon this bush fire donations thing is just a scheme to prop up red cross coffers..

 

[Peter 14.7]

The insurance or not question is frankly irrelevant to the lives of the victims. Consider this…

Let’s say someone was fully insured but....

They have no home. They may very well have no car.
So answer me….. how to they get to work?

If they cannot get the work, will they lose their job?

If they lose their job and have no home and no income, where will they rent? How can they rent? Are any of the investors here able to provide rent free housing to help someone out?

Or….

Let say they work locally, and were fully insured, and have a job, how do they stay near work if there is nowhere to rent? How do the travel when the roads are closed and littered with trees, some still yet to fall?

Or….

Let say they work locally, and were fully insured, and have a job, and have a home but their office/farm/factory is burnt to the ground? They have no job again? No claim on insurance but they have no job so how so they pay their mortgage or (ironically) insurance!

These are the challenges fire victims have in above to replacing a house. Add to the mix the pain of losing friends or family and what mental state would you be in!

I live 30 minutes from some of the fires and 1 hr from the worst. I drove around the areas Monday after, on essential travel and I could not buy any petrol as all the stations had run dry and deliveries were banned. You could not even buy petrol to get to work!!!!

Perhaps this statement of fact makes those focused on $ and who is getting it and insurance understand a little more.

Lastly, and on a morbid note, I know if my wife and daughter had been killed, I would only need $250. Enough to buy a gun to put a bullet through my head.

I mean....Why bother to go on? Whether I was insured, had a job, etc.. would not even come into it.

That’s why people are giving because they feel the pain of the victims. Academic arguments on stay or go, location of towns in relation to bush, house design…. are all BS based on hindsight. If we seriously want to apply that sort of logic to our Country, well, we may as well all pack and leave now.

It all burns, except the very top end. In the conditions of that Saturday nowhere was safe.

Regards Peter 14.7

PS if you don’t want to give cash, give blood. Last time I heard, you could not insure for that.

 

[Raddles]

Hi there
try putting yourself in these peoples shoes.

If it were one home that was destroyed - there is a good chance the insurance company can act fairly quickly - a payout is made, a builder contracted to replace the home and whilst this is all happening - alternate accommodation is found, personal items are replaced and household items purchased. This assumes that the insurance is close to replacement value for both the building and contents.

After the 2003 bushfires in Canberra, there were 4 dead and more than 400 homes destroyed or damaged. In our case our site was the last to be cleared in Duffy, it was April before that occurred - three months after the fires had gone through. We had started talking to builders to find that there was a queue - and it would be some time before they got to our job. Meantime planning laws had changed to reflect tougher requirements given the bushfire. Our insurance payout did not contemplate the two year wait for a builder and the changing requirements - we were underinsured and had to loan extra funds to complete the job. We had to sell one of our blocks of land because we couldn't afford to wait for two properties to be built.

In our case the $5000 we received at the end of the process helped with building fences and establishing gardens. We were very thankful for that assistance in the circumstances.

Yes the flood victims do also need assistance - but at least they probably have something that survives the catastrophe. With a fire you have nothing!

Imagine trying to start again, you didn't have time to grab your purse - you don't have your bank cards, credit cards etc. You don't have your driver's licence or your birth certificate (they were all destroyed). Don't you think you would appreciate a bit of cash to tide you over until you can start thinking straight and can start to plan what happens next. I know in our case it was at least 2 months before we received our insurance payout. We still had to pay mortgage payments in the meantime.

Yes I agree everyone should have insurance - but with these major events the delays are what some of this money helps with - and the unknown costs of such a major event. It was years before Duffy in Canberra started to look like a community again.

Imagine how long it will take in Victoria with so many losing their lives - and so many properties to replace.

Money in Canberra was also used to replant vegetation and care for those who were seriously injured when trying to save their animals.

I am sorry but I disagree with you crc.
thanks

 

[crc_error]

The insurance or not question is frankly irrelevant to the lives of the victims. Consider this…

Let’s say someone was fully insured but....

They have no home. They may very well have no car.
So answer me….. how to they get to work?

same is if someone steals my car, how will I get to work?

If they cannot get the work, will they lose their job?

Then their boss is a *****, and should be shamed.

If they lose their job and have no home and no income, where will they rent? How can they rent? Are any of the investors here able to provide rent free housing to help someone out?

Why should it be free? As part of your home insurance, you get coverage where the insurance will pay for rent to cover the time it takes to rebuild.. GIO has run ads on TV for quite a while on this.

Or….

Let say they work locally, and were fully insured, and have a job, how do they stay near work if there is nowhere to rent? How do the travel when the roads are closed and littered with trees, some still yet to fall?

losing your job is not unique to bush fire victims.

Or….

Let say they work locally, and were fully insured, and have a job, and have a home but their office/farm/factory is burnt to the ground? They have no job again? No claim on insurance but they have no job so how so they pay their mortgage or (ironically) insurance!

These are the challenges fire victims have in above to replacing a house. Add to the mix the pain of losing friends or family and what mental state would you be in!

These are the challenges of many people world wide.. what happens when Ford closes their plant in Geelong, are we going to give all the workers $100k payout from the tax payer or donations? If your going to have a rule for one, you have a rule for all.

I live 30 minutes from some of the fires and 1 hr from the worst. I drove around the areas Monday after, on essential travel and I could not buy any petrol as all the stations had run dry and deliveries were banned. You could not even buy petrol to get to work!!!!

And how are the donations helping here? The focus should be on petrol companies restoring services. Its not the job of tax payer or the public donating to get service stations running again.

Perhaps this statement of fact makes those focused on $ and who is getting it and insurance understand a little more.

I understand its a difficult time for those concerned. But I dont understand why in this instance the red cross gets $100mil from the public, and the government hands out payouts for people who lost loved ones. The government should focus on restoring services, providing temporary accommodation, providing food, counseling etc. and get on with their job to restore roads, essential services etc.. this is not the responsibility of the donating public. Anyway with all these donations, this doesn't help people buy food, or petrol, if these services are not available in the area affected.. so again, donating $$$ isn't going to help.

Lastly, and on a morbid note, I know if my wife and daughter had been killed, I would only need $250. Enough to buy a gun to put a bullet through my head.

I mean....Why bother to go on? Whether I was insured, had a job, etc.. would not even come into it.

This is a separate issue, and people suffer trauma every day, yet dont get any donations.. there are many people living on the streets, yet dont get any help, there are many people staving around the world, but dont have any choice in the matter. One set of rules for the bush fire victims, and another set for everyone else.. just because its a great news story for channel 10, it makes breaking news, and gets all the footie players out encouraging donations... reality is these donations are not needed.. or are needed, but should be directed to fire fighting equipment, buying water bombers etc.. this is what needs donations..

That’s why people are giving because they feel the pain of the victims. Academic arguments on stay or go, location of towns in relation to bush, house design…. are all BS based on hindsight. If we seriously want to apply that sort of logic to our Country, well, we may as well all pack and leave now.

so why are these getting special treatment? what about the flood victims in QLD?

PS if you don’t want to give cash, give blood. Last time I heard, you could not insure for that.

this would be a more appropriate donation to make.

 

[Peter 14.7]

Dear CRC

Your reply to my post shows you are focused only on winning an argument for the sake of winning. You are not reading the posts (I never said we should be making donations to petrol companies? I was pointing out the reality of the situation) and comments like

Anyway with all these donations, this doesn't help people buy food, or petrol, if these services are not available in the area affected.. so again, donating $$$ isn't going to help.
.

are simply, beyond stupid.

Do you really believe victims are sitting in an ash pile, hungry? They are elsewhere with family, friends and in shelters where money is needed so they can at least buy themselves food! Or would you have then begging in the streets?

You have no comprehension what this thread is about yet I am glad you are considering giving blood.

To the vast majority of posters, your responses have (again) made me proud to be part of Somersoft Forum.

Best wishes,

Peter 14.7

 

[topcropper]

I wonder if some of the money could be used to develop a free standing fire bunker to put in certain places in southern Australia for when this happens again..?? Perhaps help subsidies the cost a bit?

Houses surounded by eucalypt forest, in southern Australia with an annual dry summer rainfall and regular heat wave are always going to be a death trap by the sounds of it. People are always going to want to stay and try and save their stuff, so with a bunker you can retreat there once the front hits or if you have to surrender to the fireball.

Perhaps bring in a law, no fire bunker, no stay.

Sounds like the bunker needs to be away from the house. Bunkers in the house or below are too risky. I've heard reports that bunkers in the house or below have failed in this fire. Ideal situation would be a bunker in between three cement rain water tanks.

I've heard reports that these fires burnt straight through land that had been burned for fuel reduction just 3 years earlier. So maybe it's no guarentee then that fuel reduction burning could stop a fire if these freak condictions ever happen again.



See ya's.

 

[crc_error]

Peter, if you dont agree with my view, then you dont have to. I'm not her to 'win' argements. if you feel its a arguement, then I will continue this discussion with someone else.

I am making a couple of points.

Firstly is that I hear as many as 40% of people living there dont have insurance. This is plain neglect on their part.

Secondly rebuilding efforts fall on the relevant bodies, ie government, insurance, companies.

Thirdly many people suffer trauma, yet I see no effort from Red Cross, Shane Warne etc raising money for them. So why is this case getting all the attension? Are their lives worth more than other people who loose their jobs, homes, loved ones?

Most of these people living in these areas are well off, and are in a position to have insurance, and money to be able to help themselves. the rest is up to companies to restore their services, governments and councils to fix the roads, and insurnace to rebuild the homes and assist with rent of alternative housing. If you loose your job, I feel for you, but this is a very common thing in todays climate, and no hand outs are normally given out.

If these people were disadvantaged people in some way, I agree, help them out. But they are not. Infact many of them are very wealthy, or at least middle class which can afford insurance and should have it. As for finding alternative accomodation, why does the red cross need $100 million to do that?

I'll point out again, that this donated money should go towards new/additional fire fighting equipment, like another Elvis, or the 747 super bomber.. it should go towards buying additional equipment for the local hospital, to buy equipment beyond what the normal insurance covered, and assistance of the wildlife. Not giving cash to victims, or rebuilding their homes or community facilities.

If everyone raises $100 million for these people, why dont Australian Pensioners get a helping hand as well? These people in the community are so poor, and cant even afford basics. THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. Why are truck loads of donated stuff not given to them? These people NEED IT MORE. Not working class people, who should have insurance or business's who also should have insurance.

 

[topcropper]

I wonder if some of the money could be used to develop a free standing fire bunker .

But then again, probably a good opportunity for a company to get into a new industry. Mass produced and delivered by truck, fully installed, ready to go.

Pay more for the 'delux' model, and it's a combined refrigerator/freezer for when having parties etc.


Or can you already buy free standing fire bunkers? No idea.

See ya's.

 

[crc_error]

I wouldnt imagine they would be cheap to build.

 

[topcropper]

I wouldnt imagine they would be cheap to build.

True. They wouldn't, and they'd probably also need some form of air purification system for the brief period when the front hits.

However, people are always going to want to live in the forest. You can't chop it all down if people want to live there. As I said, I've heard that fire reduction may not solve the problem, just lessen the risk.

What's your life worth? [and this is assuming you send your family to safety]
So if the firestorm came from nowhere, unexpectedly, what's your families lives worth?

See ya's.

 

[crc_error]

I think its the choice of the people living there. Prehaps there could be a government grant to assist with the cost of these bunkers.

You could use a modified scuba diving oxygen kit to supply oxygen for the period the people are in the bunker.

I dont agree with the trees been cut down.. you choose to live in the bush, you accept the trees are there. There are plenty of places to live in victoria with no trees.

If anything the homes should be built with fire resistant material in high risk areas.

 

[wylie]

crc...... I would like to see how you cope if you were locked out of your house for a year, your wallet and everything else you own taken from you.

Would you not go to a friend or neighbour to sleep the first night, or the first week? These people have no friends or neighbours to go to, because they ALL have no houses, mostly no wallets, clothes, food, cars, BASIC NEEDS.

They have the clothes they had on when this roaring monstrosity rolled through their lives. Have a little compassion.

 

[crc_error]

wylie, I am not saying they are not been hard done by... what has happened is tragic, very tragic.

If my house burned down, I would use the insurance, which will pay for rent for a similar type of property, until my house is rebuilt. The same will apply to these people.

I very much doubt that they only have friends and family in kinglake, and all are wiped out. I'm sure they have friends and family outside these areas.

I have no issue with helping out, but I ask why don't we help out pensioners? what about other people who loose their jobs? or lives or get sick? trauma doesn't just happen to bush fire victims.

The difference with these people is many choose not to have insurance, they all choose to live in the bush, so this is a risk they take. Donations to buy them new houses, furnature etc is not appropriate and is covered by insurance.

The donations should be funneled into things the public benefits, like new water bombers, fire fighting equipment etc.

By the way, I live in the bush as well, and if a fire went through here, we would loose everything as well.. so I'm not sitting in a apartment in docklands, making these judgements.