claiming travel costs before property is built

Mry,
The fine line appears to be that PBR 51783 is saying inspecting the progress of construction is not a construction cost but a cost of holding a rental property just like interest is. Not an unreasonable conclusion and not exactly contradicting all the other rulings quoted. Nevertheless, I was surprised too.
This is exiting stuff I love going this deep. Thanks Poppy for all your research.

Julia
www.bantacs.com.au
 
Hi all,
Julia there is no contradiction, the ruling you found was for repairs and not building an investment.

So the investment is already held and the investor is going to visit for many reasons, ie do repairs, check to ensure their investment is being looked after etc.

But when building or the purchase cost of a new investment then you will have problems and that should become part of the cost base until it is rented out then visits could be for inspection etc.

re a company sending an employee, if their job it so seek out new investments for the structure then travel to various areas should be a cost for the company and that company will "charge the investment vehicle" ie the trust for their costs, that cost is put into the cost base of that property. So you may within a company via a round a bout way claim travel costs. If this is wrong then I am sure an accountant will jump in somewhere.

cheers

Norman
 
ATO response

I have applied for a private ruling and the answer is not part of the cost base, not deductible.

I am very disappointed with the quality of the explanation which appears to be a cut and paste job and does not leave me any clearer as to the correct answer, particularly as to why there are some widely varying private rulings on this subject.

Quotes from the ruling explanation:

The courts have considered the meaning of ‘incurred in gaining or producing assessable income’. In Ronpibon Tin NL Tong Kah Compound NL v. Federal Comissioner of Taxation (1949) 78 CLR 47; 56 ALR 785; 8 ATD 431 the High court stated that:

For expenditure to form an allowable deduction as an outgoing incurred in gaining or producing the assessable income it must be incidental and relevant to that end. The words “incurred in gaining or producing the assessable income” mean in the course of gaining or producing such income.

The expenditure must therefore be related to the production of assessable income and not incurred at a point too soon to be deductible (Federal Commisioner of Taxation v. Maddalena (1971) 45 ALFR 426; 2 ATR 541; 71 ATC 4161).

….. The expenses will be incurred before the properties are income producing, that is, before the properties are available for rent.

The courts have found that holding costs such as local council, water and sewerage rates… etc, may be deductible as they are inherent costs of owning the property. However the cost of travel is not inherent and is not a cost of owning the property.

According these expenses are preliminary expenses. …. As these expenses are regarded as being private in nature, they do not form part of the cost base…

No specific mention of Steele v. Federal Commissioner of Taxation (1999) 197 CLR 459; 99 ATC 4242; (1999) 41 ATR 139 (Steele’s Case) is given.

There is then an additional explanation of why the travel is not part of the cost base, which is basically a copy and paste of the elements of the cost base, which specifically states that the travel is not part of the fourth element.

The explanation regarding why the travel costs are not part of the cost base is clearly copied and pasted from out of date information.

From the ruling explanation:

4. The fourth element of the cost base includes capital expenditure you incurred to increase an asset’s value, such as the construction of a veranda. The expenditure must however be reflected in the state or nature of the asset at the time of the CGT event

By looking at the ATO’s “Guide to capital gains tax 2005-2006” at http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/66269.htm&page=19&H19, it is clear that the text in the ruling explanation has been taken from pre 1 July 2005 documentation. The updated guide, sections of which are shown below, states not that the expenditure must however be reflected in the state or nature of the asset, it clearly states that some expenditure that may not have been reflected in the state or nature of the asset, may possibly be included in this element.

From the ATO’s “Guide to capital gains tax 2005-2006”

Fourth element: capital costs to increase or preserve the value of your asset or to install or move it

The fourth element is capital costs you incurred for the purpose or the expected effect of increasing or preserving the asset’s value – for example, costs incurred in applying (successfully or unsuccessfully) for zoning changes. It also includes capital costs you incurred that relate to installing or moving an asset. However, it does not include capital expenditure incurred in relation to goodwill which may be deductible as a business-related cost. For details see Guide to depreciating assets 2006.

Note
For CGT events that happened before 1 July 2005, the fourth element was capital costs associated with increasing the value of your asset that were reflected in the state or nature of the asset at the time of the CGT event – for example, if you paid for a carport to be built on your rental investment property. The effect of the change is to broaden the range of costs that are included in this element, including some expenditure that may not have been reflected in the state or nature of the asset when it was sold – for example, certain demolition costs. If the CGT event (such as sale or disposal) happens on or after 1 July 2005, costs that fall within the new description of this element are included irrespective of whether they were incurred before or after that date.

The ruling ignores the question of whether travel costs related to installing a depreciating item (eg the carpets and blinds) can be included as part of the cost of that item. The ATO “Guide to depreciating assets 2006”, mentioned in the updated Fourth Element details above, provides an example where travel costs to purchase a car are included in the cost of the car.

In private ruling 51783, the ATO has ruled that travelling to make a progress inspection on a rental property under construction was fully deductible. This ruling is based on Steele v. Federal Commissioner of Taxation (1999) 197 CLR 459; 99 ATC 4242; (1999) 41 ATR 139 (Steele’s Case). I also stated that I would be travelling to the property for the purpose of making a progress inspection, and there are no other relevant differences in my circumstances that would give a reason for a different ruling. Either ruling 51783 is incorrect (in which case ruling 51783 should be removed from the ATO web site), or the ruling given in my case is incorrect.

It would appear that the ATO has a policy of not responding to any questions regarding why other private rulings with almost identical circumstances have different outcomes. I referenced private ruling 51783 in my request but this was ignored.

I am thinking of lodging an objection to this ruling based on the cost base explanation being based on outdated information, and because they have not addressed whether the cost of travel to install a depreciating item can be added to the cost of a depreciating item. I will also mention ruling 51783, and see if they will give me some explanation of this.
 
I am not sure what exact words you used in seeking a ruling but.......

When seeking a private ruling it is important to format your submission very concisely
If you want particular prior cases to support your desires you need to present them along with your argument.
If you ask a question in too general a way then you may not get the desired result.
Why not seek another ruling, but slightly alter the circumstances from the first ruling
I wouldn’t bring up the cases, mentioned by the ATO that don’t reflect your argument.
Also if you haven’t spoken to someone AT the ATO then do so. Their telephone service is woeful when you first make contact but if you can reach someone a few levels higher the information can be priceless. At this level I have had an officer spend a lot of time helping me to form and ask the right questions for a private ruling.
 
Poppy,

The inspector-General of Taxation is currently reviewing the apparent bias in the ATO's responses to private rulings. It may be worth taking your issue up with them. Please keep us posted, this is good stuff.

Julia
www.bantacs.com.au
 
Hi Redsquash,

Thanks, yes I'm sure my wording could have been improved in hindsight.

I did reference two private rulings in my request, one of which supported the travel being deductible and one which suggested that travel expenses to install a depreciating item could be added to the cost of the item. I also asked if the travel was part of the cost base of the property (in case it was not deductible otherwise). The ruling explanation made no mention of the two private rulings I referenced nor gave any explanation as to why those private rulings had different outcomes. So I'm guessing, the ATO policy is that they will refuse to comment on other people's private rulings even though these private rulings are available on the web site. Does anyone know whether this is the official policy?
 
(Replying to a question about a trust structure)
Not really, since the expenditure is tied to the property.

The only thing that makes a difference is if you are a passive property investor (99% of the time) or if you are in the business of buying and selling properties.
I have heard opinions in the past that a trust can send a beneficiary to research property, as the trust IS in the business of property. This opinion suggested (as far as I remember) that the trust CAN claim travel expenses for travel to the property area being researched.

I belive the rationale was that the trust is in the business of properties.
 
Update

OK, so I objected to the ATO's initial ruling that the travel costs were not part of the cost base nor could any other type of deduction be claimed.

ATO then agreed that the rules in relation to CGT/cost base had changed and whilst the ruling would previously have been correct they now had to decide whether this was still the case under the new rules.

The ATO have now issued a ruling that where I travel to the construction site to install a depreciating asset such as carpets blinds etc, the travel costs can be added to the cost of the asset. As for travel to the construction site for other purposes, such as progress inspections or to meet with the builder, they have not yet advised whether this will be part of the cost base of the property or not.
 
Poppy,

I cannot believe that such a simple question is sooo complicated for the ATO to answer. Surely the idea would be that previous private rulings would determine further similar claims until such time that the tax rules changed.

To have to consider the 'evidence' for each claim seperately is a waste of everyone's time and effort.

When you get your ruling is it property specific, or can you utilise it for all your future property purchases?

Regards

Andrew
 
Hi Bargain Hunter,

The problem is that they have not done any rulings on this subject since the rules changed in 05-06, so I guess once they have done this one it can be used in the future.
 
Have a read of ID 2007/67 (20th April, 2007) it replaces ID 2004/732 and in my opinion means that all, otherwise not deductible, travel costs, once you get to the point of ownership, can be included in the cost base under section 110-25(4) because the words non capital costs have been removed.

More Travel Costs Qualify for CGT Cost Base - May 15th BAN TACS Newsflash
In January 2007 changes were made to section 110-25 which lists the items that are included in an asset’s cost base. In particular section 110-25 (4) was amended to remove the word non capital. This means that, providing the property was purchased after 20th August 1991 the section now covers all types of ownership costs that have not otherwise been claimed as a tax deduction. The interesting thing about section 110-25 (4) is it differs from the other subsection that are very specific as to what can be included in the cost base. Section 110-25 (4) uses the word “include” and then lists examples of ownership costs. This and the removal of the word non capital costs opens up a whole new area of cost base items.
For example ID 2007/67 released on 20th April, 2007 states that even though expenses such as motor vehicle costs associated with initial repairs could not be included under section 110-25 (5) because they were not specifically capital improvements, they can now be included as a cost of ownership under section 110-25 (4). Previously ID 2004/732 excluded motor vehicle costs associated with initial repairs from section 110-25 (4) because they were capital in nature. ID 2004/732 has now been withdrawn.
The January 2007 changes to section 110-25 (4) are back dated to cover any CGT event that happened on or after 1st July 2005. But note any costs that qualify under section 110-25 (4) cannot be used to increase an assets cost base.
 
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I have received the final verdict from the ATO. Here is my understanding:

As I mentioned before, if I travel to the construction site of my rental property for the purpose of installing a depreciating asset such as blinds carpets etc I can add the travel cost to the cost of that item. I do not have to physically install the items myself just meeting the tradesmen there etc is a sufficient connection. So I will be adding the cost of the travel to those items on my depreciation schedule. Also, it does not matter whether I go there myself or send my husband to do it.

For travel to the construction site for any other purposes, such as progress inspections, meeting the builder, landscaping etc this will be part of the cost base for CGT. It will be part of the fourth element of the cost base because the travel is to "increase or preserve the value of the asset"

A pretty good outcome I think.
 
Thanks for this post Poppy (& Julia & Mry)
I am building an investment property now, so have gained valuable information from it. Unfortunately my place is only 5km from home, so I won't get too much value from it!
Steve
 
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