Comment on building and development at the end of a boom. Like now.

Hi All

For all those interesting in:

what happens to builders and developers when a market goes down like now,

the effect of this on supply and prices of IP


feel free to read this. it very long but spot on the money having been in the construction game for two booms. Points of note in bold.

Peter 147

article came from http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11062748%5E25658,00.html

Working it outPaddy Manning
October 14, 2004

THEY say when the tide goes out, you see who's swimming nude. Now quite a few developers are looking exposed as the property market softens.

It's not a pretty sight. Distressed projects, bankruptcies, work-outs, even ASIC bans, dot the landscape and it's only the beginning.

No-one likes to point the finger, so people will rarely discuss specific cases. And there are few sources of hard statistical evidence around, including bankruptcy statistics.

As BIS Shrapnel chief economist Frank Gelber said: "It's been happening for a long time before you start to see it in bankruptcies."

As reported in The Australian last month, insolvency practitioners, including PPB, Ferrier Hodgson, and Sims Partners, have been gearing up for a new wave of work from the property industry.

Industry specialists contacted for this article agreed the incidence of distressed development projects was on the increase and predicted it would get worse.

Australian Institute of Quantity Surveyors general manager Terry Sanders said the forthcoming September quarter BRIX survey, which monitored the construction outlook, would show a levelling off in activity "pretty much across the board ... (but) more so with residential than non-residential".

Quantity surveyors often become involved when a project strikes trouble. They may be called in by the financier or developer to provide an independent estimate of the cost of work done to date, and what's required to complete the project.

Mr Sanders said market activity varied from state to state: "Victoria is still depressed, and things are starting to slow down in Queensland. Sydney, we're starting to see level off."

But wherever you look, most vulnerable are the smaller, often inexperienced residential property developers working on townhouse or unit projects in the $5million to $10million range.

Cliff Ventris, partner at quantity surveyors Haley Somerset Ventris, said: "The small, amateur guy who's done very well for the last few years, if they're not out of the market by now, there's a big boulder coming their way."

Mr Ventris specialises in litigation support, providing expert witness to court cases. He said trying to come to grips with the increase in distressed projects was like grabbing a "tiger by the tail".

"The market is tightening, there's no doubt about that. As it continues, builders find they cannot 'roll' their cash (from one job to another)," he said. "Subcontractors are even less able to look after themselves."

The common solution was for builders to simply put themselves into liquidation. Mr Ventris said this was the real frustration, "the way government allows people just to go under, and get away with it".

PPB's building and construction partner Mark Robinson said many inexperienced developers were not around during the last recession.

Oversupply was now catching up with these developers and many were failing to get the level of pre-sales necessary to allow them to draw down their construction finance.

He said the type of developer involved had come in five or six years ago and had been "making hay" ever since, rolling their profits into ever-bigger projects.

"They could now be looking at a $10 million to $15 million townhouse development," he said.

In a typical case, a financier of such a project would require pre-sales of 50 to 60 per cent of units but the developer might find they can only achieve 35 per cent - and probably for lower prices than expected.

Failure to meet pre-sale commitments leads the developer to resort to fourth and fifth-tier providers of mezzanine finance, often at very high interest rates. Or else the project comes to a complete halt, the site is sold, and the developer loses whatever money they spent getting development approval.

"At the moment in the marketplace there's not much of a premium on properties with a DA that haven't got construction finance," Mr Robinson said.

Still, there is a saying in the insolvency business that sometimes "your first loss is your best loss".

That is, if you press on to avoid taking a loss you might find your losses simply multiply. If finance is around and the project does go ahead, there can be a knock-on effect. If the developer is in too deep, there comes a point where they cannot pay their builder.

That's where PPB will become involved, arranging finance and construction to see the project through to completion.

Mr Robinson said "very sophisticated" investors in property, including private equity firms and even big listed companies such as Macquarie Bank and Stockland, might be willing to salvage failing developments.

They often offered to take out the bank that provided the original finance - but they demand an equity position in the project.

"They act as a bit of a white knight, but they want the lion's share of any upside," Mr Robinson said. It's known as a "participation fee".

"Somebody's loss is potentially somebody else's gain," he said.

Macquarie Bank has a portfolio of more than $1 billion - comprising senior debt, equity and mezzanine finance - funding developments such as residential apartments, land subdivisions and lifestyle projects.

Grant Munro, head of the bank's property finance division, said work-outs could be commissioned by project financiers, developers or appointed receivers.

He said that after a long period of price growth in the residential market, the next wave of busts, receiverships and work-outs was not yet upon us, but was around the corner.

"It's mainly to do with paying too much for land," he said. "When you get the squeeze between someone paying too much for land, and the expectation of valuation increases going on, but the double-whammy of cost increases, and then the expected realisations (ie. sales) from a project don't materialise ... it can create some stress."

All banks are wary of talking about problem projects, and Mr Munro said the proportion of irregular loans within Macquarie's portfolio was low: "The only evidence I have experienced is we actually funded somebody into a partially finished (Sydney) project they had bought from a distressed player."

The most difficult market is Melbourne. Berrick Wilson, partner at KordaMentha Real Estate Advisory, said the firm had dealt with more than a dozen property developments in difficulty in Melbourne in the past 12 to 24 months.

Mr Wilson said distressed projects were often driven by micro-market factors - at the level of the individual suburb - more than national or metropolitan trends.

While each project had different problems, the theme was inexperienced or under-resourced builders or developers taking on more than they could cope with in a super-heated market.

"Their business has grown very quickly, but management hasn't. Declining on-completion values have removed the safety net," he said.

The type of project most frequently in distress was smaller medium-density, suburban projects - under 50 units. Major banks had become more cautious about financing such projects.

Often it was the builder who went broke first after growing to take on larger projects "they think they can deal with" - like moving from building six townhouses in the suburbs to a 30-unit development with basement car parking and three levels.

"Suddenly they find themselves in difficulty. The builders go broke and the developer has to go back to the drawing board.

"When you've got a development that's mid-way through ... it's hard to get a builder to commit to a lump-sum contract," he said.

Mr Wilson said the pressure on builders was a function of the market, especially the high prices developers had been paying for land.

"Because sites have been getting more expensive, the first thing the developer does is turn around and try to squeeze the builder," he said.

Already this year, several companies have failed, including Consolidated Constructions and Centreline Construction, both in WA, and Brands Construction and Iezzi Constructions, both based in Queensland.

If a new builder had to come in to finish the job, it was the worst possible outcome, according to PPB's Mr Robinson.

Getting a new builder would add 30 to 40 per cent to the construction costs because, in signing off on the completed project, they would have to warrant the prior builder's work - for example, that the foundations were sound. The new builder would charge a significant premium to assume that risk. So the insolvency expert would try hard to renegotiate the original builder's contract.

"If dealing with a reputable, national builder, the likelihood of being able to strike a new deal is high. It's in both parties' interests."
 
sounds like media hype and wishful thinking on the part of the insolvency practicioners. are things really that bad over east? things are really starting to take off over here in the west.
 
Ausprop said:
sounds like media hype and wishful thinking on the part of the insolvency practicioners. are things really that bad over east? things are really starting to take off over here in the west.

Hi Ausprop

In reply and from my experience of working in the PD industry it is all looking very similar to 1990 here in Sydney.

Things are not identical (rates lower, not large crashes like Quintex and Bond yet) but there is a lot of unit stock coming on line that simply will not have the tenants and/or may not be sold.

The signs I notice are :

1. Developers offering finance at very low rates ( one I know is 2.99%)
2. Bonuses with sales such as holidays, cars, furnishing, cash back (all good for IP but very suspect with ATO)

3. Lots of DA approved sites on the market with interesting reasons for selling, divorce, moving OS, liquidation of property assets from takeover, etc.

The comments on newbie developers who have never seen a downturn is spot on. They are in denial. A false confidence exists because they believe they can do no wrong.

I sold a share in a development site I had in Sept 2003. I had an option with a friend and he wanted to do it together. He wanted $1.8M. I tried heaps to make it stack up but all my experince said too late and too risky. By Mid 2004 market will have changed.

Friend put it to the market and got ( get this) $2.3M. :eek: with young 20 something developers new bie developers. Essentially the total profit we would have made doing the deal. These villas are presently just complete and i am very glad I am not holding $4M debt.

What people dont realise it is a game of dominos. To sell the villas are easy. They appeal to older couples looking to downsize but they have to sll ttheir homes to buy the villa and that's where it gets hard.

Throw in greedy families who dont want mum and dad to sell up their nest egg and spend it on a smaller home and holidays , etc...and you get to see the picture.

The reality is banks have always wanted lots of pre-slaes and a 30% gross return to get things going and neither are available in the present market.

So yes things have changes a lot in the East. All booms come to an end.

Peter 147
 
Ausprop said:
sounds like media hype and wishful thinking on the part of the insolvency practicioners. are things really that bad over east? things are really starting to take off over here in the west.

In Melbourne it seems like almost all the oversupply will be located in a very narrow geographic precinct - Docklands, Southbank and St Kilda Rd. But this will have a spill on effect in the surrounding suburbs.

There does not seem to be much oversupply in the middle suburbs. We haven't had as much development of large apartment complexes in the suburbs as has Sydney, but those developers who have attempted to get such projects off the ground are having real trouble.

I don't think we will have as much trouble as in the early 90's but the lesson the article reminds us is that timing is very important in property development. The larger the project, usually the longer the lead time (getting through council etc) making it even harder to get it right
 
Peter 147 said:
3. Lots of DA approved sites on the market with interesting reasons for selling, divorce, moving OS, liquidation of property assets from takeover, etc.

"At the moment in the marketplace there's not much of a premium on properties with a DA that haven't got construction finance," Mr Robinson said.

In the markets I am active (Syd only) I have found the same to be true.

Nice find on the article Peter.

The qn that comes to my mind (and one Ive been thinking about lately) is what is the best way to get access to these distressed sales...

Not saying that they will definately sell for a decent price but its these kind of sales that seem to present the best opportunities (4d's train of thought)
 
XBenX said:
The qn that comes to my mind (and one Ive been thinking about lately) is what is the best way to get access to these distressed sales...

Not saying that they will definately sell for a decent price but its these kind of sales that seem to present the best opportunities (4d's train of thought)

Hmmm...

A few ideas are:

Always go direct via no agent to the Developer and act as a mini white knight. See Council for thd Devlopers name.

Private sale and allow him or her to sell some units for a confidential price. Not set a precedent.

Buy a few ( say 3 plus) and get a discount. IF you cannot afford a few see if you have some friends who want to go in as well.

Do it very professionally and with a lack of emotion. That way they can get over the offense when you tell them your price. At least 30% under to allow for market drops at this time.

Also give them some mini bonus that sound good but it s nothing. Example: No cooling off period and 14 day settlement, etc.. Why. It helps them to justify giving you the lower price. The lose to you is minimal. It is all about saving face.

Be patient

Some Ideas....Peter 147
 
Peter,

You seem to be across whats happening in the development/building industry and i've been out of it for years.

I have always used brickies rates ($/1000 bricks as a barometer) and i would like to know what brickies are getting these days? Peter? Anyone?

Previously ive seen them getting $1000/1000 bricks in a boom period (not this one) and down to $400/1000 in a slump. These price do not include extras llike arches, sills, cutting..etc..

The reason i'm asking is i am waiting to get some building work done and i know building costs are high at the moment and i also know that the building industry is cyclical and am waiting for a downturn in work and a downturn in builders/subbies prices.
 
Hi LW

Actually cannot comment re brickies rates but would agree with JoannaK and yourself that $! a brick is typical boom.

As for downturn and when? this is much harder. Usually we had boom and bust but with the growth in commerical, retrement units, renovations and general lack of tradepersons out there there never seems to be a bust!

I note your on the North Coast NSW where I use to live and develop. I use to use a brickkie called garry edwards ( I think) In COffs and he was excellant quality. He may be retired by now but worth a go.

With the lack of persons becoming trades workers I only see this problem getting worse. All of the trades I use are older than me and I am 37.

Peter 147
 
likewow said:
I have always used brickies rates ($/1000 bricks as a barometer) and i would like to know what brickies are getting these days? Peter? Anyone?
I've got a cousin in Melb who has just commenced a bricklayers apprenticeship. He's on pretty poor money being a 1st yr apprentice ($100/day) but his middle-aged well experienced employer bills out at about $1.30/brick, which I thought was pretty good money. He was saying that there is a chronic shortage of qualified experienced tradesmen - brickies in particular - which probably goes some way to explaining why building costs have become quite pricey.

He also pointed out (as Peter has) that there are less and less teens getting into the game these days, which will only further hike prices up as they become a dying breed. I wonder if it will reach the point where we have to start importing or outsourcing such labourers from countries like Indonesia, etc, as Singapore and Malaysia have done over the years to help with their building labour shortage ?

T.
 
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$100 a day, thats $500pw, $2200 month, $25K/year, for a teenager I think that is good money. In Japan 21 year old new-grads (4 year university) are taking starting salaries of 180,000yen/month ( about AUD$2400 month) just to get into a company, that is really bad for high cost Tokyo unless you can live with Mum&Dad.

Actually the building trade is one area that is certainlly difficult to offshore or outsource. And if Aussies moved away from brick, brick, brick to the use of high quality prefabrication shipped to Australian then certainly prefab in offshore locations could be effectively used.
 
always_learning said:
$100 a day, thats $500pw, $2200 month, $25K/year, for a teenager I think that is good money.
Depends how you look at it. This kid could be absolutely anything and his parents would prefer that he spent these years on education that could lead to much better rewards in the future, rather than chasing the dollars now, having to put up with the elements every day and risking long term injury. We have a family friends who's been a bricky for decades which has brought about a serious case of arthritis that Melb winter mornings do not accommodate.

T.
 
Hi all,

A friend of mine, who is a builder/renovator, told me of his recent experience at the site of one of the major home builders here in Vic.

At a new building development in the hoppers crossing/tarneit area he saw a large group of workers(all asian with very limited english), sitting around a TV watching a video. He thought this unusual. He then found that the video was on "How to lay bricks".

Is this the type of education our next generation of tradesmen are going to get??

bye
 
"How to Lay Bricks" video, hmmm doesnt sound like the end result will be at the the to the same level as Elvin Master craftsmen.

Well at least they care enough to watch the video. It would appear that some of the "workers" used with my development couldnt be bothered to do even that.
 
always_learning said:
Actually the building trade is one area that is certainlly difficult to offshore or outsource.
Why so AL ?
Local companies import labour such as doctors, financiers, engineers (including civil), teachers, etc, every day. As long as those being brought to work here have the necessary experience and are familiarised with local guidelines and standards of which they must work towards, why would the building industry be any different ?

The more I think about it, the more I feel that such an idea has merit. Having lived all over south east Asia, it is not uncommon to be driving home from work on the highway and seeing a ute or pickup truck full of labourers in the tray. Assuming they had a sound level of English and the neccesary skill sets, I reckon they could be enticed over here for the right money and providing they had a sponsored work visa from whoever was keen to employ them.
 
Tandella said:
I've got a cousin in Melb who has just commenced a bricklayers apprenticeship. He's on pretty poor money being a 1st yr apprentice ($100/day) but his middle-aged well experienced employer bills out at about $1.30/brick, which I thought was pretty good money. He was saying that there is a chronic shortage of qualified experienced tradesmen - brickies in particular - which probably goes some way to explaining why building costs have become quite pricey.

T.

Hi Tandella,

It seems to be the same story right across Australia at the moment. If you are even able to get a tradesman, they can pretty much set their own rates due to the shortage of skilled tradesmen around.

Some excerpts from a story in today papers (you can read the whole thing here )

ELECTRICIANS, welders, boilermakers, plumbers and other skilled tradespeople are snapping up $100,000- plus jobs as Australia's skills shortage impacts on wages.

Tradespeople in some areas across Australia earn more than some doctors, dentists, architects and teachers.

Business groups have estimated Australia needs 21,000 extra tradespeople to solve the national crisis.

Last weekend metropolitan newspapers carried job vacancies advertising $100,000-a-year packages for airconditioning electricians and $70,000 annual salaries for kitchen cabinet installers.

A recent Housing Industry of Australia report found ceramic tilers' prices were more than 20 per cent higher in the year to June, followed by an 18.3 per cent rise in builders' rates and 12.5 per cent rise in carpenters' costs.

Jamie.
 
Tandella said:
Why so AL ?
Local companies import labour such as doctors, financiers, engineers (including civil), teachers, etc, every day. As long as those being brought to work here have the necessary experience and are familiarised with local guidelines and standards of which they must work towards, why would the building industry be any different ?

Certainly no different demand will push alternative means of supply. However I believe the industry will be in for some hard times in the next couple of years and the slow deflation bus (return to normalcy) takes effect in many of the recent market segments that have shown strong growth over recent years.

I suggest importing the finished product makes more sense than importing low-skilled workers sitting in the back of Hi-Lux utes.

Anyway both options (import labor, import finished product) would cause some polical fallout from the local building industry.
 
always_learning said:
I suggest importing the finished product makes more sense than importing low-skilled workers sitting in the back of Hi-Lux utes.
But as you said in your earlier post, what if home owners don't want to settle for anything other than a brick dwelling ?
And what sort of "imported finished product" are you referring to ?
I agree that importing low-skilled workers would be a waste of time and purpose defeating. Which is why I suggested that those being brought to work here would need to have the necessary experience and skill sets.
always_learning said:
Anyway both options (import labor, import finished product) would cause some polical fallout from the local building industry.
I agree that there might be a few feathers ruffled with the Unions here if labour was imported from overseas, but if the bottom line meant cheaper building costs for the public, it might have enough support.

T.
 
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