Thanks for the reply. A friend of mine is a grad at PWC, doing the long hours and aiming high, so I was just curious about this.
Confused about career as 'accountant'
- Thread starter Terryw
- Start date
Thanks for the reply. A friend of mine is a grad at PWC, doing the long hours and aiming high, so I was just curious about this.
A lot of discussion about accountants in professional practice, working towards partnership etc. However, many (most?) don't follow this path. An grad working in the audit division with a Big 4 would likely end up in commerce, and eventually in a CFO type role.
I have many accounting friends - most of them in (or moving towards) commerce or industry, away from professional practice (although most of us started with a Big 4 firm).
I have many accounting friends - most of them in (or moving towards) commerce or industry, away from professional practice (although most of us started with a Big 4 firm).
Would be best to focus on CA/CPA, then Tax Agent status could come later down the track.
Some would see the move from CPA to CA as a 'downgrade' or a step sideways at best
From personal experience, CPA works where the aim is to reach CFO or indeed run the business.
A tax agent is a "public practitioner" - kind of similar to a GP in the medical world I guess....the others are "corporate" - working within companies and businesses.
It doesn't mean a corporate accountant won't touch tax - they can be involved with BIG corporate tax reporting, compliance, auditing etc. In many ways, they deal with much bigger numbers than the average personal tax return!
As a public practice, you have different liabilities to being an employee of a corporate.
Hope this helps...
The Y-man
Some would see the move from CPA to CA as a 'downgrade' or a step sideways at best
From personal experience, CPA works where the aim is to reach CFO or indeed run the business.
Yeah, I was going to say, the old CPA vs CA knives coming back out.....
Bit like CG properties vs CF!
The Y-man
Some research:
Tax Agents are registered under s251J of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936
See http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1936240/s251ja.html
The requirements are:
1) Fit and proper person
2) Not undischarged Bankrupt
A fit and property person is defined under s251BC where is states prescribed qualifications are needed:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1936240/s251bc.html
The prescribed qualifications are listed under INCOME TAX REGULATIONS 1936 - REG 156
See http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/itr1936225/s156.html.
And the include:
- Degree or diploma from a uni or college.
a course of study in accountancy of not less than 3 years duration (including a course of study in commercial law of not less than 18 months duration, or
- Other qualifications equivalent,
-
And the person will also need:
- 12 months relevant work experience
- Completed a course in Australian Income tax Law
OR, for the lawyers out there. They can qualify as a tax agent if:
- Completed a course to qualify for admission as a solicitor or barrister, and
- have 12 months relevant experience.
- Did a subject on accounting principles, and
- A subject in Australian Tax Law
OR
Diploma or certificate from a college or postgraduate diploma and
2 years duration and has 2 years work experience.
OR
8 years relevant work experience during the last 10 years.
It would seem from this that a Tax Agent is not required to be a CPA or CA and that a 3 year TAFE/Uni course and 1 year experience OR 2 year diploma and 2 years experience is enough to set up your own practice.
Tax Agents are registered under s251J of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936
See http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1936240/s251ja.html
The requirements are:
1) Fit and proper person
2) Not undischarged Bankrupt
A fit and property person is defined under s251BC where is states prescribed qualifications are needed:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1936240/s251bc.html
The prescribed qualifications are listed under INCOME TAX REGULATIONS 1936 - REG 156
See http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/itr1936225/s156.html.
And the include:
- Degree or diploma from a uni or college.
a course of study in accountancy of not less than 3 years duration (including a course of study in commercial law of not less than 18 months duration, or
- Other qualifications equivalent,
-
And the person will also need:
- 12 months relevant work experience
- Completed a course in Australian Income tax Law
OR, for the lawyers out there. They can qualify as a tax agent if:
- Completed a course to qualify for admission as a solicitor or barrister, and
- have 12 months relevant experience.
- Did a subject on accounting principles, and
- A subject in Australian Tax Law
OR
Diploma or certificate from a college or postgraduate diploma and
2 years duration and has 2 years work experience.
OR
8 years relevant work experience during the last 10 years.
It would seem from this that a Tax Agent is not required to be a CPA or CA and that a 3 year TAFE/Uni course and 1 year experience OR 2 year diploma and 2 years experience is enough to set up your own practice.
Ya reckon ?? I've seen some tax agents ya wouldn't ask them to do any push ups for fear of them keeling over on the spot. Swaggering in their suit, if you asked them to do a few laps of the oval to prove their fitness, you could be up for asault given the damage it would do 'em.
LOL That's funny and reminded me of when i have a meeting with my accountant i cant help but look at his hands across the desk.
They look like they have never seen sunshine or held a tool beyond a teaspoon stirring his morning latte. They are so soft and white. I think my 8yo daughter has rougher hands than him. She might take after my roughed up ex tradies hands.......hope not.
My wife reckons men should not have hands like that. (she's probably jealous) He's a decent accountant tho and thats the main thing.
They look like they have never seen sunshine or held a tool beyond a teaspoon stirring his morning latte. They are so soft and white. I think my 8yo daughter has rougher hands than him. She might take after my roughed up ex tradies hands.......hope not.
My wife reckons men should not have hands like that. (she's probably jealous) He's a decent accountant tho and thats the main thing.
Interesting.... but would you get any customers?
Cheers,
The Y-man
There are several non-CA/CPA companies/firms of tax agents in Australia who presumably have many customers, the Australian equivalents of H&R Block. (Who are often cited as the largest accounting firm in the US)
From my research on the Tax agent requirements, it would appear it is not necessary to go as far as studying for a CPA or CA qualification if you just want to do tax returns etc.
Has anyone looked at the ATAX courses at UNSW. They have a new Masters in Taxation and Financial Planning course which looks good.
Has anyone looked at the ATAX courses at UNSW. They have a new Masters in Taxation and Financial Planning course which looks good.
haha. It's funny what people think we do as accountants. Well i'll go through my Friday as that is a pretty typical day.
1. Early morning. Go to the gym.
2. Grab a soy latte and analyse the capital gain on sale of a business. Determine whether the small business CGT concessions apply.
3. Meetings with senior tax officials to discuss applications of the law to various transactions.
4. Lunch with a client.
5. Visit a business a client is thinking of purchasing to discuss sales trends, expenses, profitability, marketing plans, business plans, etc.
6. Debrief with client.
7. Consider the international tax implications of restructuring a client's business with operations in Australia and another jurisdiction.
9. Take a lady friend out for dinner.
So that's it. I guess when you are just starting out and if you go the slow route then maybe entering receipts is what you do in accounts payable but generally the route is uni and then into a very junior role in a firm, whether that be corporate or public practice.
I don't think it is boring at all. If you enjoy the intellectual challenge then it is great but if you love the outdoors and physical work then agreed it would be a nightmare.
1. Early morning. Go to the gym.
2. Grab a soy latte and analyse the capital gain on sale of a business. Determine whether the small business CGT concessions apply.
3. Meetings with senior tax officials to discuss applications of the law to various transactions.
4. Lunch with a client.
5. Visit a business a client is thinking of purchasing to discuss sales trends, expenses, profitability, marketing plans, business plans, etc.
6. Debrief with client.
7. Consider the international tax implications of restructuring a client's business with operations in Australia and another jurisdiction.
9. Take a lady friend out for dinner.
So that's it. I guess when you are just starting out and if you go the slow route then maybe entering receipts is what you do in accounts payable but generally the route is uni and then into a very junior role in a firm, whether that be corporate or public practice.
I don't think it is boring at all. If you enjoy the intellectual challenge then it is great but if you love the outdoors and physical work then agreed it would be a nightmare.
Hi Mike
Sounds very interesting, and not at all boring. Sounds like someone who is 'just' a Tax Agent could do all of those except maybe no. 5 (and maybe no. 9 too?) - depending on their knowledge and experience.
When people look at taking on an 'accountant' do they really consider the CA/CPA issue? I personally never have.
Sounds very interesting, and not at all boring. Sounds like someone who is 'just' a Tax Agent could do all of those except maybe no. 5 (and maybe no. 9 too?) - depending on their knowledge and experience.
When people look at taking on an 'accountant' do they really consider the CA/CPA issue? I personally never have.
Terry
A tax agent could do all of them. Yes possibly even manage a date or two.
I have never been asked in my entire working life whether I am a CPA or CA. I think it is a great qualification for professional reasons but the general public don't seem to care.
A tax agent could do all of them. Yes possibly even manage a date or two.
I have never been asked in my entire working life whether I am a CPA or CA. I think it is a great qualification for professional reasons but the general public don't seem to care.
From, The Accountant
the story of a child born to a family of sorcerors who does not want to take up the family business
The demons great horned hands reached for the Morton, but quickly the boy opened his book "Save Me" he screamed
In that instant a tall terrible thin old man appeared covered ink stains
Zico Pic reet chanted the demon turning to grapple with the newcomer
But the thin old man laughed and said "The contract of a coporation that is not ultra vires is not voidable only but utterly void"
The demon reeled and escaped through a portal to Hell and safety.
The thin old man laughed and turned to the parents
Mr and Mrs Dee, cowering in the corner, 'Well if he wants to be an accountant that badly.'
the story of a child born to a family of sorcerors who does not want to take up the family business
The demons great horned hands reached for the Morton, but quickly the boy opened his book "Save Me" he screamed
In that instant a tall terrible thin old man appeared covered ink stains
Zico Pic reet chanted the demon turning to grapple with the newcomer
But the thin old man laughed and said "The contract of a coporation that is not ultra vires is not voidable only but utterly void"
The demon reeled and escaped through a portal to Hell and safety.
The thin old man laughed and turned to the parents
"Know that I am THE ACCOUNTANT
And know moreover that the child has signed a compact with me, to enter My Apprenticeship and be my servant.
And in return for services rendered, I, THE ACCOUNTANT, am teaching him the damnation of souls by means of ensnaring them in a cursed web of Figures, Forms, Torts and Reprisals.
And Behold this is My mark uppon him."
The accountant held up Mortons right hand and showed the ink smudge on the third finger.And know moreover that the child has signed a compact with me, to enter My Apprenticeship and be my servant.
And in return for services rendered, I, THE ACCOUNTANT, am teaching him the damnation of souls by means of ensnaring them in a cursed web of Figures, Forms, Torts and Reprisals.
And Behold this is My mark uppon him."
Mr and Mrs Dee, cowering in the corner, 'Well if he wants to be an accountant that badly.'
Hey Coasty,
What kind of work did they have you doing in those early grad days? Care to elaborate on those early days? and how long you had to work like a dog for before you seen some decent pay and was it worth it? Thanks
I reckon it's disappointing the general public don't care. Someone who wishes to engage an accountant should IMHO only proceed with a CPA or a CA. If the person they're considering wasn't a CPA or a CA I'd be walking away. If they were a tax agent but not a CPA or a CA too, then I'd also be walking away.
So, I'll be the first because I do care. Mike, are you a CPA or a CA?
