Darwin - palmerston area

I note people keep referring to Palmerston as a suburb. It is not a suburb, it is a satellite city of Darwin consisting of many suburbs. It is growing far quicker than Darwin itself - population growth would be amongst the highest in Australia I imagine.

It is not a low income area. Places in my suburb of Palmerston (Durack) are selling for as much as $900K. Palmerston has masterplanned suburbs with no itinerant problems and no public housing.

I also work for the NT Police so am aware of where the crime hotspots are. Most of them are in the Northern and Central suburbs of Darwin.

The areas to avoid in Palmerston are: Moulden, Driver, Woodroffe and Gray.

Outstanding suburbs of Palmerston are: Marlow Lagoon, Durack and Gunn. Rosebery and Farrar are okay.

If you have the money I would buy into the bottom end of Marlow Lagoon in a heartbeat. Beautiful properties there worth as much as $2 million - one has just listed for $1.5mil (check realestate.com.au). You can still buy in the bottom end in the mid 600's.

The minimum lot size is 4000sqm. Maximum lot size is 12 acres.

The bargain of the century was here a year or two back when Denis Burke (former politician) sold his property on 1.5 acres for $740,000 after initially listing it at $920,000. It had beautifully manicured gardens, a bore, 500sqm house, tennis court and huge pool with a "beach".

My former boss was renting her place in Marlow for $1000pw. Close to major projects (new Inpex plant, existing gas plant).
 
Many people make the mistake of thinking that Palmerston is a suburb.

Palmerston did have many lower socio-economic families to start with and as Gatoblanco mentioned had a very high welfare recipient rate. Not sure if it was 55%. The idea of getting out of Darwin suburbs appealed to quite a few and as housing was cheap and affordable, 30-40% less than Darwin prices, many families started to move there. An increase in defence personnel also saw more defense housing in Palmerston than other areas. The opening up of a second road from Darwin to Palmerston via Tiger Brennan Dve meant travelling time from the city to Palmerston was equivalent as city to northern suburbs.

The shortage of available land around the city created many new mixed estates in Palmerston that consist of higher percentages of Defence Housing and Welfare to private than the northern suburbs.

AW1 were you working for NTP or in Palmerston when CB was OIC? There is a difference between determined 'hot spots' and established crime rates. Northern suburbs around shopping centres like Malak and Karama are hot spots but overall crime rates in these suburbs were lower than Palmerston areas. At one stage is was well know of a competition between certain groups to see whose area could lead the stats in like neighborhood watch.

My last visit to Darwin was interesting after going to the aid of Mindle Beach security who were set upon by some local gang members. The average age of those detained were 16.

Crime stats are interesting. NT has had the highest crime rate, Darwin highest city followed by Alice but Alice highest murder rate per capita.

For me Darwin is one of the greatest places to live but it is becoming increasingly violent and very unsafe to wander the streets in quite a few areas. If you want an idea about the dreggs of society spend a few hours at any of the following service stations, Shell Casuarina, Malak, Fannie Bay and see who and what is hanging around the streets late at night.
 
Darwin Palmerston the last high(er) growth frontier

I think it is pretty obvious that the mature states and cities are going to be returning to a low growth regime aka the 1990s once this global economic crisis starts to turn around. Gone are the high growth opportunities for a while.

It would appear that Darwin/Palmerston are one of the few remaining areas that will continue to offer strong property growth and continued good rents.

It has and will be partially isolated from the global crisis due to the make up of it's economy and being a smaller contained market more susceptible to growth spurts on the back of single projects. And this is where Darwin and Palmerston is going to grow strongly on the back of a number of big projects and under supply of labor and homes. There is not much of down pressure on Darwin's markets except for a temporary slow down now due to nervousness but inevitably demand for labor and homes is set for further increaes (Palmerston is set to almost double in size (grow by 30,000) over the next 8 years according to their local paper).

On the balance of things I reckon Darwin/Palmerston would be the place more reliable to provide good capital growth and continued strong rents.

I posted this update on another thread but it is relevant to this topic.

Inpex announces next phase in Darwin
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=501701#post501701

I have some family in Darwin so my information tends to be second hand but reliable, I hope.

Today Press releases from INPEX and NT Government announce the next stage of Inpex's project is proceeding. Great news for investors in the market already.

So it seems that the INPEX $20 billion project will definitely proceed in Darwin now, it is just a matter of when. They are into their FEED front end engineering and planning phase now but still have the expectation of shipping LNG in 2014/15 so it seems they will proceed as per their original schedule.

This massive plant they will be building is not too far from Palmerston so I guess it will benefit the most out of it. It will mean large amounts of cash flowing around their economy. You would imagine a number of little new businesses popping up as well I would imagine.

I also note a few properties on Don Circuit and Alexandria court Durack my current favourite area now.

They both look pretty good and the Don circuit houses the more modern but, Alexandria court is more attractive and seems a number of high priced houses are on the street. It is the sort of place you be happy to live.

I have found No. 24 sold for $745,000 in October and there are two properties for sale now. One double story place for around $800k and No.7 Alexandria have put themselves on Owner.com for $692,000 and have a mob of photos on-line, the place looks huge compared to my place. This one presents really well from the front and seems much better value than the $800k one.

There are a number of cheaper places in Wulagi and Leanyer as well but they look like they need some work to make them look their best and are away from the new action place, Palmerston.

I am tempted to buy in Alexandria court or in the Peninsular while prices are still reasonably 'low' as I get the feeling this area is going to go ahead quite strongly once Inpex and the like get going and even before once people understand what it means.

I found that the population estimate increase for Palmerston was an extra 30,000 for the period up to 2016 in the local news there - the NT News. That sounds incredible when you realise the size of Palmerston is meant to be around 35,000 now??

So I am getting near deciding on something.
 
Darwin the only safe bet for 2009

Australia as a whole will certainly be in a recession, in reality if not technically, for this year and have a very slow recovery in 2010/11. The effects of collapsed global demand, especially from our major trading partners China, Japan and Korea has only just started to be felt here and will peak at the beginning of 2010. Get ready for much worse, it is inevitable.

Darwin and the NT by what must seem as some weird contrast is estimated by some economists quoted by the govt to have GDP/GSP Growth of 2% in 2009 and in my opinion 4% in 2010.


USA corporate reporting starts soon and we will hear just how horrendous once famous companies are. Wall street will dive again once it is realised that much of corporate America no longer has the strength to recover.

Housing prices are going to be dropping continuously in most places later this year. I don't think we are going to know the floor until the beginning of 2010. Unemployment growth will ....... you know the rest.

Those with the money really should be looking at Darwin and more appropriately the fast growing area of Palmerston. Durack as others have noted elsewhere is the premium place to buy and in my opinion the higher price properties there will get a strong boost over the next three years. Their $550k plus homes there will give the greatest capital growth as a bunch more richer folk look for some better located properties.

Rents will remain strong, vacancy rates near zero, the strongest in Australia, new land releases and developments in 2009/10 will not be nowhere near enough to supply a strongly growing market and a continuous shortage of skilled builders is going to keep construction costs high. Major projects (Inpex will happen now and the money will start flowing later this year/early next, along with the port upgrade and one other major expansion plus strong population growth).

Darwin/Palmerston/Durack will be one of the few places that will end up with some respectable capital growth this year, certainly conditions indicate that it will most unlikely there will be any back sliding and near the end of 2009 it will have a spurt that will last at least 12 months.

In fact this area in the current 'lull' is just at the start of another strong growth spurt that should see it out perform all places in Australia.

In my opinion money invested in Darwin property is low risk, high probability of good growth and continued strong rentals. The next 5 years in Darwin will be a very happy one for them.

Anybody consider Darwin/Palmerston/Durack should of course do their own research. The only problem with Durack is that is a smaller development, I guess that means it is more exclusive, but it also means that there are fewer properties on the market there and when they do come onto the market the are quite often sold in 3 or 4 weeks.

Durack at any price would be the best bet and best prospect of good capital growth if you can get them, then the next closest to the CBD (also makes them closer to the main city of Darwin) such as Gunn. Darwin itself has some older 'lower' valued suburbs that have some good growth in them but will often mean spending on some upgrading as they are of more basic limited design.
 
Darwin definitely has many strong points but:

1) choose your pm or real estate agent very carefully,

2) get the best form of LL insurance you can,

3) remember it is a transient place and has more than a fair share of dreggs of society,

4) transport/public services are not keeping up with the growth,

5) it is prone to cyclonic weather and flooding,

6) high crime rates

But is still a great place to live.
 
Darwin Palmerston an interesting place.

Darwin and Palmerston have a younger average demographic to the rest of Australia though it is now aging. However the youth crime thing is not too much different to most other places it just more sensationalised in the NT papers because it is a comparatively small community. It is usually a problem around shopping centers at night as you would expect.

It is certainly not a problem in the suburbs of Palmerston.

Palmerston is about 21 kilometers from Darwin and connected by two major roads. It takes about 20/25 minutes to travel between the two on a good day. Longer when their is a lot of traffic about. Some government departments have been doing some partially decentralisation to Palmerston.

Traffic flow will be an issue only for the newer further out suburbs such as of Bellamac. Palmerston CBD and Durack however are not that far from Darwin. People from any sort of big city would wonder what Darwinites are complaining about when they say it takes 25 minutes to do some such travel.

* All Darwin and Palmerston properties are of course built to a cyclone code which explains their higher quality and cost and cyclone insurances is a given.

* The quality of homes built in the past 10 years in Palmerston have been excellent in design and construction standards and is a good reason for their value as investments. They are appealing.

* Though cyclones whilst they develop in the seas to north rarely strike Darwin since it is shielded by an island. Cyclone Tracey caused so much damage because the city consisted of above ground wooden fibro buildings. But the risk is taken seriously. Ironically it is southern cities that seem to be suffering more storm damage from more common unusual storms - like Brisbane.

* The only unpleasant time in Darwin is the 'build up' period, the few month leading into the wet season where it gets hotter and more humid. But once the rains break the places cools quite a lot and in fact the wet season is quite attractive. It gets monsoon rains which usually means a regular shower at around the same time of day.

* The wet season usually means box jelly fish are around and means wearing fine stockings if you are playing around near the beach ( there tentacles cannot penetrate the fine mesh). However fishing is a passion for the area both sea and rivers (Barra and mud crabs).

* Darwin has a very relaxed and easy going and quite tolerant life style and has a wide mix of races including lots of chinese, thais, malays etc which adds to the character of the place.

* Usually people find it hard to leave and then stay away from the place.

* Darwin and Palmerston for all this is a modern vibrant city given its younger population.

* Darwin appears to have a good family income average and most seemed to be involved or planning home purchases and willing to borrow big to do so. Most families will have one public servant which means a guaranteed income for the long term.
 
ST,

You definitely haven't worked in law enforcement if you really think Palmerston suburbs don't have any problems. Just out of curiosity but have any other states or territories ever introduced mandatory sentencing? Please don't jump on the bandwagon and deem it as racially introduced or not pc. As a long term resident of Darwin who has dealt with dreggs of society both in NT and OZ wide it is definitely not over sensationalized in the newspapers or news.

The rest of what you wrote is close to spot on about times etc.

Do you know how many cyclones have hit Darwin since 74 and caused problems and damage. I can easily recall 3 that I worked during. Anyone remember the trouble Rachel caused with flooding as far down as Katherine?

Darwin definitely has strong points for investors but it is not all rose covered glasses like some seem to be making out and more DD is required than other places.
 
Re Dregs of society, I live in Palmerston currently, next to one of these, hes not tooo bad but has wild parties that really give me the *****s alot. . I crank my tunes just to give him the message though so were even, I agree that we do have alot of yobbos, that is a 'problem' but eventually they'll be moved along in time to the next outer suburb.

In my opinion the Army are the real pains, theyre in all neighbourhood's in Palmerston and chances are youll end up living right next door to them and not know it until you move in, they get everything done for them and seem to be above everyone else in society so look out, they like to party and have no respect for you, some are ok though.

I just experienced this again over the weekend with a new neighbours grass being ripped up by their car on purpose ofcourse, otherwise Moulden has most of the real dregs living there because its the cheapest suburb and is mostly housing commish, I dont think we have any more problems that any other state as far as crime goes, we have the highest employment rate so how does that add up?
 
want2bewealthy said:
In my opinion the Army are the real pains, theyre in all neighbourhood's in Palmerston and chances are youll end up living right next door to them and not know it until you move in, they get everything done for them and seem to be above everyone else in society so look out, they like to party and have no respect for you, some are ok though.
Click to expand...

Fair go W2bW. I don't think that is an accurate picture of ADF members in Palmerston (or Darwin ) at all. Don't forget, *we* are told where to live, work under Defence legislation, and often are away from family and loved ones. While we do receive some benefits such as subsidised housing, it in no way makes up for all the crap that we sometimes have to deal with ( and bite our tongue in the mean-time ). I agree with you in that I also dislike loud parties etc, but I think that is a mentality of younger people everywhere, not just Defence members in Darwin.

Phil :)
 
Because (un)employment rates are based upon the # of participants in the labour force. Unfortunately many of ours are not actively seeking jobs and are not counted in the stats.

Our unemployment stats would be horrendous if it included those not in the market for a job!

Agree with phil re. defence. I have had nothing but good experience with defence personnel in Palmerston (I'm not defence myself).
 
want2bewealthy said:
In my opinion the Army are the real pains, theyre in all neighbourhood's in Palmerston and chances are youll end up living right next door to them and not know it until you move in, they get everything done for them and seem to be above everyone else in society so look out, they like to party and have no respect for you, some are ok though.

QUOTE]

Hey I am Army :D:D... haha but yeah some of the younger single guys do like to party and can think there better than everyone else... IMHO it’s the young “grunts” (Infantry soldiers) that have the whole attitude problems...

I currently have an IP rented to a fellow AJ for over a yr, have had no dramas
Click to expand...
 
Does anybody know what the rental market like in Marlow Lagoon? Yields?? Vacancy rates?? Attitudes of locals to renting out there?? API doesn't have it listed.. Cheers :)
 
THEHEATH said:
Does anybody know what the rental market like in Marlow Lagoon? Yields?? Vacancy rates?? Attitudes of locals to renting out there?? API doesn't have it listed.. Cheers :)
Click to expand...

Marlows Lagoon is a great spot to live/rent, most have big blocks so rental is good and in demand, flooding can be a small problem though I think but dont quote me on that.
 
theheath,

regarding the flood issue, i think the planners from the dept of planning & infrastructure down at knuckey st can shed some light on your question.
 
Flooding is not a problem in Marlow Lagoon. Sure, the blocks will get wet during the wet season and you need some kind of driveway but it is not like some rural areas that have half the block covered in water for much of the year.

There is no established rental market in Marlow Lagoon.. it is almost entirely owner occupied. I do have a friend who let a property there for $1000 a week not long ago but this was the biggest lot in the suburb (10 acres) with a 600sqm house, horse stables, gardener provided etc.

Its an awesome capital growth area but ignore any published stats. They fail to correctly separate land sales from established property sales. I owned a 2 acre block here (purchased in 2006 for $270k) but sold it a year later (for $335k) due to the holding costs.

If you can find a small house on minimum lot size (1 acre) for around $600-650k you're onto a winner long term. Should get about $600-700 a week rent judging by neighboring suburbs like Durack. Capital growth should be outstanding as it is adjacent to the Palmerston CBD and not far at all from the Darwin CBD. When the focus shifts from overpriced inner city apartments to the great value of acreages close to the city this area will be gold. There are some houses under construction now in the area that are >1000sqm and exceed $1.5 million in build price.
 
Boom times for Darwin?

According to this poster not only is Inpex going ahead it is going earlier and larger than their original plan.

If this is true I think it creates some problems as it will create a drain on building resources and push construction prices up even higher. I don't think Darwin has lost that many jobs from the mining industry as yet to cater for this. And the Fed government today approved the extension and expansion of Xstrata's mine who threatening to close down if they didn't.


http://ozelection2007.info/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=61454#p61454

"That would mean that Inpex will approve its Darwin project in May 2009 and commence the construction phase almost immediately, certainly well before the end of the year if my colleagues have got it right. It would also mean the construction phase would be longer if they are building two other trains. It is going to be chaos in Darwin during that time since it isn't that big a city."
 
maybe some of the WA workers can fill those jobs demand up there. got notice from the boss last week and thinking about moving back to NT. :(

anywho, it is good that there is a demand for workers somewhere in australia.
 
aw1 said:
Flooding is not a problem in Marlow Lagoon. Sure, the blocks will get wet during the wet season and you need some kind of driveway but it is not like some rural areas that have half the block covered in water for much of the year.

There is no established rental market in Marlow Lagoon.. it is almost entirely owner occupied. I do have a friend who let a property there for $1000 a week not long ago but this was the biggest lot in the suburb (10 acres) with a 600sqm house, horse stables, gardener provided etc.

Its an awesome capital growth area but ignore any published stats. They fail to correctly separate land sales from established property sales. I owned a 2 acre block here (purchased in 2006 for $270k) but sold it a year later (for $335k) due to the holding costs.

If you can find a small house on minimum lot size (1 acre) for around $600-650k you're onto a winner long term. Should get about $600-700 a week rent judging by neighboring suburbs like Durack. Capital growth should be outstanding as it is adjacent to the Palmerston CBD and not far at all from the Darwin CBD. When the focus shifts from overpriced inner city apartments to the great value of acreages close to the city this area will be gold. There are some houses under construction now in the area that are >1000sqm and exceed $1.5 million in build price.
Click to expand...
So what kind of capital growth would you expect on one of these 600k lots in your opinion. I know it's a tricky question, but would just like to know what you're thoughts are, will not be making any decision based on it.

So given the absence of an established rental market there, do you think there would be any problems in getting a tenant, or do you see the lack of available rentals as a positive thing?
 
Darwin Palmerston just got more attractive

If people were concerned about Inpex delaying its $20bn project near Palmerston because of the global crisis can rest easy. Inpex CEO has said it is going ahead.

This should make investment in most property in the area reasonable sound.

"He acknowledged that demand for resources is falling amid the economic slowdown but the Japanese firm nevertheless plans to start production in Australia in 2015 and in Indonesia the following year."
http://www.ogj.com/display_article/...npex-president-upbeat-about-LNG-developments/
 
Anyone who is interested in inner Darwin, I have a friend who is a developer who is offloading the last (I think, last) townhouse in his townhouse development in Parap (Arafura I think its called...)

It's a cul-de-sac of townhouses designed by Troppo architects, energy efficient homes (its pretty stunning - I was there on a stinking hot day and the living room was very pleasant with no fans or aircon!). 520sqm of land, 242sqm of townhouse. I believe its the largest and he's offered it to me for $100k under asking price (and less than he's achieved for the others) - down from $800k to $700k. Little outta my price range though :eek:
 
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