Demanding tenants

[pulse]

I've just finished a beautiful reno, 1890 terrace, top floor as a seperate unit. Polished 7 inch cypress pine, stainlesss steel appliances, new fridge, microwave and front load washer and dryer supplied. Rent $220 p/w large regional town in NSW.

Tenants are demaning to say the least. Complained about:

1. two windows not having flyscreens (they are 6m from the ground)
2. Not having a carport even though I told them that the old one is termite ridden and may fall. Had to move all my stuff so they could part under it.
3. Not having a pura water filter????
4. Was the washing machine good? they had never used a brand new whirlpool front loader before!
5. where can they hang photos from!

Anyway, there was a massive storm last week and water was blown in the wall vents and under the ridge capping. Small amount of water on their sofa.

They called be and blasted me and demanded a dry place to live. It has only flooded once in three years, so they said once was two often. This was on their 6th day in the property, we have not yet signed a lease nor have they paid me a red cent.

He kept telling me that they are paying good money and deserve better! To top it off the called at 1030pm to ask me how to turn the circuit breaker on for the A/C after the storm and the next day to tell me that the lock was sticky because the rain had been blown in to it!!!!


Arghhhhh let me out! How can I evict them. I am giving them the two weeks gratis as my punishment.

What are my rights since nothing is formalised yet. I have learnt a lot so no lecture please!

Cheers
Pulse

 

[willy1111]

How about getting a property manager? (I assume you are self managing)

I think you have pretty much described why so many people use them.

Are they gen Y?

 

[jennyn]

Have they paid a bond?

I wouldn't have let them move in until they'd paid some rent in advance even if you are giving them 2 weeks free. If I gave tenants 2 weeks free I would put it at the last 2 weeks of the lease.

I would get rid of them! They sound like trouble. I had tenants like this in my IP that was PM managed and they were always complaining about something. I was lucky and they decided to move out after a couple of months though.

I would get a PM to manage the property and get new tenants through the PM.

 

[kathryn d]

Since you haven't signed a lease and they haven't paid anything, tell them to leave or you will charge them with trespassing.

Self managing is a learning process.No one else will look out for your interests better than you. You got an annoying tenant, but you also learned a lesson.

Let's hope your next tenants are better.

 

[pulse]

Thanks guys, just to clarify, they were interested months ago and then didn't want to commit until they moved to the area. They gave me short notice of the intention to move in so I said OK and am about to prepare the lease.

They are Gen Y, both dentists, they are quite and will look after the place. However it is the first time they have moved out of home. His dad even helped them moved in and pulled me aside to check that I would commit to housing them long term!!! Now I know why he was worried!

Despite all the complaints they are keen to stay. I just want to know how I stand legally since I haven't drawn up a lease yet nor have they paid me anything.

Is there an implied lease, enforceable by the residential tenancy tribunal? I guess the lease may be implied because I've given them the key. Or can I jyust tell them that I will not sign a lease and they should move out.

This is their 9th day in the house, I was planning on giving them to next weekend before demanding some money from them. (that is the two weeks rent free, a sweetener to get them out, since they now owe me money.) And also If I do then demand money, would the lease become even more "implied"

Anyone had any experience of evicting verbal tenants/friends gone bad?

Cheers
Pulse

 

[FrankGrimes]

I agree with others and if you can't get rid of them I'd use a property manager, then never deal with them directly again. Any unreasonable demands just say no, after you reject their unreasonable demands a few times they will eventually stop. This happened to me a few times and they get the idea.

If you keep listening and actioning their demands they will keep coming back. You are setting the wrong expectation. If they don't like they will move on, which sounds like a good thing anyway. In my opinion it was a mistake to let them move in without signing a lease in the first place.

 

[geoffw]

Although they are demanding- a few ponts

.Flyscreens keep out flies, not people. And they are not expensive. I'd put them in (pending signing of a lease)
.Asking for a place to hang photos is reasonable. You don't want them to damage your walls when they remove pictures. And people like a place which is "theirs". Put some permanent hooks in, so that they don't need to remove them when they leave. Easy and cheap.
.Letting them park in a termite ridden carport is potentially dangerous- for you. Unless they were to sign a disclaimer that they have been warned of the dangers and still wish to park there.

A water filter is unreasonable.

For them to blast you for anything is unreasonable. You are not responsible for Acts of God.

They do though appear to be unreasonable tenants. But I'm not sure of your rights. You have permitted them to move in, I don't know if you can get them out without due process.

 

[pulse]

Thanks for the feedback. I know that some of these requests are reasonable. The problem is that I have moved from the area. They called me and wanted to move in that weekend. I took time off and worked like a dog all weekend to get it ready. I made it clear that the place was "as is" ie skirting not yet painted etc. They were aware of this. The inspected it three times and were aware of most issues.

I know that letting them move in without a lease was a bad move but the weekend left me no time, combined with working 12+ hours per day in a new job.

My plan is to say that I am unwilling to sign a lease with them, and make it clear that they are unhappy with the house,the way it is at the moment, as they have told me. Therefore the sensible thing is that they should find a new house. If they disagree then a manager will be employed to staonewall all requests while I seek advice from the tribunal. I am happy not to accept money from them, because if the tribunal is eventually the arbiter then I whould be entitled to fair rent for the period.

If all else fails I will stand outside with a hose and hose under the ridge capping!

... sh*t I can't .... damn water restrictions!

Cheers
Pulse

 

[The Y-man]

.

They are .... both dentists....

Cheers
Pulse

Oh Man, do they know what you look like? I'd hate for you to turn up to a dentist and....

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[Francesco]

Interesting experience, but a bit rough on Pulse. I would go along with GeoffW's assessment of the tenants' requests. I would fix whatever is reasonable and politely refuse what is unreasonable. I would not give 2 weeks rent gratis. Discount may be reasonable, but tenants may just accept the fixes and be happy with that. I would sign the lease, complete the condition report and put in any special conditions that will safeguard your future sanity.

It may just be starting on the wrong foot. If this condition persists after 1 month, give them notice to vacate without due reasons. But then this is me.

 

[pulse]

I think they've had long enough to show me what they are like. This is not about what is wrong with the house, this is about what is wrong with them. They will be nightmare, hard to please, tenants to anybody. They think that paying rent gives them a right to have any household difficultly sorted out be me, pronto. Normal people realise that it just gives them a place to stay.

This place does not need work or fixes. It is brand new, three years of renovation, white polyurethane appliances, free appliances, polished boards, 40m2 elevated deck, downlights, bulkhead ceilings... it is beautiful. They have to realise that you rent a place the way it is. If they want their own house then buy it!

If I get them to pay rent and sign an agreement then they are protected from eviction, and I'm stuck with high maintenance tenants. I don't need the money, I need the sanity! I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers
Pulse

 

[Xenia]

What are my rights since nothing is formalised yet. I have learnt a lot so no lecture please!

Cheers
Pulse

WHAT!!!!!

Never, ever let anyone in your rental properties without a signed lease, bond and 2 weeks rent. We have had tenants sign a lease but not have the bond for a couple of days and we tell them they can have the keys in a couple of days.

Without a lease you cannot evict them udner normal tenancy rules, they can if they were really nasty claim squatters status then you would need federal law to get them out, tenancy tribunal won't help you.

Getting a property manager is an understatement!

 

[wylie]

We self manage, but under these circumstances, why not either get a PM to sign them up so that at least you have a lease which they will either honour, or go into breach, at which time you can get them out. If you have them sign a six month lease, you can then give them the appropriate notice that you will not be renewing it. Tell them nothing, or tell them you plan to finish the painting, whatever.

If you get a lease signed (or a PM does it) you have a legal document and it would be easier to get them out. You also can issue the appropriate notice if they don't pay anything, whereas not sure what you can do without a lease.

You may find that they settle down and behave themselves during the six months, in which case you could keep them.

Wylie

 

[kathryn d]

Without a lease you cannot evict them udner normal tenancy rules, they can if they were really nasty claim squatters status then you would need federal law to get them out, tenancy tribunal won't help you.

Are they able to claim squatters rights in less than 2 weeks?


Personally,if you want to keep them, sign them up stating what is included in the lease.Their first rental payment is overdue and you want it in writing when it will be paid.Everything ALWAYS need to be in writing.

Another approach is to fix or add all these requests and say the rent will have to be increased....lots...for these added extras. Without missing a beat in conversation pull out the lease and tell them sign or vacate within (enter day numbers here).


These may be great tenants for looking after your house, but you will need to show them who is the boss here.

I wouldn't get a PM to sign them so you evict them. With all the letting fees you need to pay, financially you will be way behind.

Let the tenants take you to court.Then ask them to provide a lease. Say they were guests in your home for a couple weeks (if you like )

 

[natmarie73]

Hmmm,

Dosn't sound like you want them there anymore Pulse, and I can't say I blame you. If they are this demanding before they sign a lease any pay any money I can't bear to think what they may be like once they have a lease in place.

I don't know what your rights are in this situation unfortunately, but I wonder - perhaps, since they are not "legally" in your house, if you could just remove the front and back doors for, say, repainting?

Seriously though, if they haven't signed a lease simply let them know (in writing) they are no longer welcome in your house and you will expect that they vacate by whatever date. If they start jumping up and down let them know again in writing that they are now trespassing and the police/law will become involved. As professionals, unlike most dodgy tenants, they will not risk trouble with the law as this may impact their professional standing in the community.

Cheers
Nat

 

[pulse]

Thanks Nat,

Dosn't sound like you want them there anymore Pulse, and I can't say I blame you. If they are this demanding before they sign a lease any pay any money I can't bear to think what they may be like once they have a lease in place.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Hopefully, once they know I don't want them there they will agree to move. If they don't, I'll give them a written six month lease with them knowing that they will be asked to move out at the end. I will also get a manager to insulate me from their incessant requests. Most sane people would move under these conditions.

Unfortunatly I'm working all weekend, so I may have to leave it until tomorrow.

Cheers
Pulse

 

[sailor]

I've just finished a beautiful reno, 1890 terrace, top floor as a seperate unit. Polished 7 inch cypress pine, stainlesss steel appliances, new fridge, microwave and front load washer and dryer supplied. Rent $220 p/w large regional town in NSW.

Tenants are demaning to say the least. Complained about:

1. two windows not having flyscreens (they are 6m from the ground)
You don't have to put them in, and they agreed to take it as is. Tell them NO flyscreens.
2. Not having a carport even though I told them that the old one is termite ridden and may fall. Had to move all my stuff so they could part under it.
This is a risk. Tell them they can't use it, and it is unsafe to do so. If you decided to have a lease, put in a special clause saying the car port is unsafe and cannot be used.
3. Not having a pura water filter????
Tell them NO water filter of any kind. If they want one they can install a portable one.
4. Was the washing machine good? they had never used a brand new whirlpool front loader before!
Good grief! What is their problem. Haven't they ever used a washing machine before. Presumably you left the brochure with them. I have a folder in all my units containing the lease, brochures of all appliances/white goods, etc.
5. where can they hang photos from!
This is reasonable, to give them some preinstalled picture hooks.

Anyway, there was a massive storm last week and water was blown in the wall vents and under the ridge capping. Small amount of water on their sofa.
This comes under THEIR contents insurance. Tis not your problem.

They called be and blasted me and demanded a dry place to live. It has only flooded once in three years, so they said once was two often. This was on their 6th day in the property, we have not yet signed a lease nor have they paid me a red cent.
Always have a lease 2 weeks rent in advance and 2 weeks bond lodged, BEFORE handing over the keys.

He kept telling me that they are paying good money and deserve better! To top it off the called at 1030pm to ask me how to turn the circuit breaker on for the A/C after the storm and the next day to tell me that the lock was sticky because the rain had been blown in to it!!!!
Good grief...AGAIN! You are not available after normal business hours unless its an emergency. Surely there is another brochure there with the aircon details in it.

Arghhhhh let me out! How can I evict them. I am giving them the two weeks gratis as my punishment.
Google residential tenant for NSW (I'm presuming that's where the IP is). Everything you need to know should be there.

What are my rights since nothing is formalised yet. I have learnt a lot so no lecture please!

Cheers
Pulse

This is good that you have learned soooo much so far, and in such a short time. Time to pat yourself on the back. Things could be worse. This problem can be solved.

 

[sailor]

Solution?

IMHO:
As they don't have a lease, that puts them on a periodic tenancy.
As they have paid no rent, they are in breach of their agreement.
Ergo...you can give them written notice to vacate.

Anyone know the amount of notice required in NSW?

 

[GoAnna!]

pulse

I think the month by month tenancy is the best option. If as a landlord you do not follow through with the usual processes then it is difficlt to gain the protection of the law. I suspect that at a tribunal you would not come off looking that great. I presume you gave them the keys and okayed them to move in? So far all they have done wrong is ask for stuff?

They sound immature and annoying but unfortunately you have not set things off on the right footing.

You need to have things clearily in writing and $$ in the bank. Provide them with the tenancy booklet which outlines their rights and reponsibilities.

Let them know if any of their requests will be agreed and which won't. I would suggest that you do so in writing. Or verablly with follow up letter. Keep it business like. At the moment they are in charge ...not you!

If you do not have the time or expertise to act as a property manager then pass the responsility over to a paid property manager. A badly self managed property will make any property manager look cheap.

Athough they might be personally annoying if you stand back from the situation you will see that they have not done anything outrageous. I have this gut feeling that trying to evict them while there is no lease in place and they are yet to pay rent could only lead to way more trouble. Why not begin again as you would in the wisdom of hindsite?

My personal opinion only!

 

[Dazz]

I agree with Xenia.

Never ever ever let a tenant move into your property until ALL of the paperwork has been signed and ALL of the monies have been paid and issued a receipt for.

Your negotiation stance is strongest upfront when they are champing at the bit to get in there.

"Can we just pay this for now...."
"OK, OK, let us move in and we'll sign the paperwork tomorrow...."
"No worries mate, send it round and we'll sign / pay, it's just that the truck with the furniture is coming this afternoon....."
"I get paid on Thursday, if we can just get in and settled that'll really help out..."
"My lectures start on Monday and I need to get in this weekend....."
"I need somewhere just to put my 5 trucks and a few bits and pieces...."
"Our other lease runs out and our current Landlord won't give us an extension...."
"We've closed down our offices and just need somewhere to put a few staff to tide us over...."

The wife and I have had all of these, or combinations of the above, as reasons why you as Landlord should just let the prospective tenant waltz in and start occupying the property and sort out the painful paperwork and money side of things 'later'.

Talk about chop your legs off when it comes to a strong negotiating stance.