Digging a Pool - How long for Bobcat

T

turfy77

Hi, I have just signed up for a new pool to be installed. After signing the contract I've started going over the contract and am concerned they haven't allowed enough time to dig the pool and back fill. They have included 4hours of bobcat time and after that I have to pay $99/hour.

This is how I think it will happen:

By the time they arrive, unload the bobcat, stand around and discuss the job and then finally get stuck into digging at least 30min would have gone. They then need to remove the topsoil/grass and put to the side in a miniskip bin. Then they need to dig the hole and put sand into trucks. This will be followed by a lot of checking levels and final adjustments. I would image at least 3hours would have gone by by this stage. Once the pool is ready to be lifted into the yard the bobcat will be on standby to back fill the sand. Lifting the pool into position would take at least 1.5hours with setting up the crane and checking levels. Then the bobcat would need to backfill around the pool and remove the last remaining sand. I would of thought the bobcat would be needed for at least 6hours minimum. I'm just wandering whether I'm going to be screwed by the pool company as they promised all the earthworks were included. Is 4 hours enough for the bobcat???

Any advise welcome, thanks
 
Bobcat for pool dig ???

How deep is the pool?

Usually a backhoe or decent size excavator is used.

Im sorry but on the face of what you have said you may well be getting screwed.

Like pinkboy said, you signed then read?:eek:
 
When we dug our pool, there was an allowance ($1K from memory) for the dig. Anything more than that was our cost. We were told sometimes they could dig three pools per day, but others take a full day.

Guess which sort we had? :D:eek:

Much of our suburb is rock, and we are sitting on a big piece of rock, so we paid (from memory) another $2K or maybe $3K but because we dug down to level the back yard first, we really removed "two" pools worth of shale, rock and soil.

I guess if they didn't allow a certain amount, then jobs like ours would cost them dearly and blow their budgets. Also, don't forget it is probably up to you to work out how to dispose of the fill. See if you can find someone looking for fill or you'll pay dearly to dispose of it.
 
Thanks Wylie for a positive feedback.

As for the other comment from PinkBoy, even if I did read the contract how would I know, Ive never installed a pool before and you are pretty much bound by their terms anyway. I was flying overseas first thing in the morning for a month so had to sign and hope for the best.

Please don't comment if you don't have a constructive answer. Im curious to hear from people who have had a pool put in before. My area does not have any rocks and is good quality soft sand.
 
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turfy77 said:
Thanks Wylie for a positive feedback.

As for the other smart **** comment from PinkBoy, even if I did read the contract how would I know, Ive never installed a pool before and you are pretty much bound by their terms anyway. I was flying overseas first thing in the morning for a month so had to sign and hope for the best.

Please don't comment if you don't have a constructive answer. Im curious to hear from people who have had a pool put in before. My area does not have any rocks and is good quality soft sand.
Click to expand...

Having recently installed a $250,000 pool in my backyard, by your definition I'm pretty qualified to put my .02c in.

Being in a hurry is no excuse to sign a contract and 'hope for the best'. If you are going to spend mega bucks on anything, especially something with a contract involved, then spare us any sob story if things go south with your pool installation. Be informed before signing the dotted line.

Bear the responsibility of your (hasty) actions. If the digging takes longer than 4hrs, then you agreed to it. No use getting all worried and jumping on a forum complaining if it might happen.

pinkboy
 
I remember when I got my excavator licence a few years ago. I dug a trench about 8 metres long and 600 mm deep.

It wouldn't have have taken me much more than say 5 minutes and I was practically a complete novice. I could see an experienced operator digging that hole in the time allocated provided there are no problems eg rock.

I can't see how a bobcat can do it, unless its got a shovel attachment.
 
Out of curiosity, what does a $250,000 pool look like?

pinkboy said:
Having recently installed a $250,000 pool in my backyard, by your definition I'm pretty qualified to put my .02c in.
ing in a hurry is no excuse to sign a contract and 'hope for the best'. If you are going to spend mega bucks on anything, especially something with a contract involved, then spare us any sob story if things go south with your pool installation. Be informed before signing the dotted line.

Bear the responsibility of your (hasty) actions. If the digging takes longer than 4hrs, then you agreed to it. No use getting all worried and jumping on a forum complaining if it might happen.

pinkboy
Click to expand...
 
image.jpg

pinkboy
 
Anyone else hearing crickets?

We had a 10.5m x 4.5m pool installed and were charged $2000 by the excavator for the dig, not entirely sure how long it took them as we were at work but it was definitely less than a day.
 
turfy77 said:
I'm just wandering whether I'm going to be screwed by the pool company as they promised all the earthworks were included. Is 4 hours enough for the bobcat???
Click to expand...

How could you be getting screwed?

The pool installer obviously thinks 4 hrs of Bobcat is average for this type of pool.

His rate of $99/hr for man and operator also seems reasonable.

Question: Would you prefer he lump sums the price using 10hrs of Bobcat time without allowing you the savings benefit if he does it quicker?

Really,........ some people stress about the little things even before they happen.
 
Things I learned during our pool saga (long time ago).

I had no idea about looking for a pool builder who was a member of SPASA. Ours wasn't, and I was told that just before Christmas when we had enough of trying to coax them back to finish our pool, they had 30 shells to finish. We got ours but had no back up of things went south as our company was NOT a member of SPASA, so SPASA would not come to our aid.

We learned through our ignorance that by the time the job was 70% finished, we'd paid 95% of the total. Luckily, we got our pool finished before they went bust (which I believe they did).

If we built another pool, I'd certainly look for the protection of SPASA but knowing the contract was weighted in their favour as far as them holding nearly all the final monies before they've done nearly all the job is fine in theory, but if we pushed to change the contract, we would likely be told "sign it or get another builder". I've heard they are "all" the same?

Anyway, we got a lovely pool, along with plenty of stress. It was probably one of the biggest stresses we had had to that point. However, it was soon surpassed by the stress we endured when we then jumped straight into our third major renovation with three young children, but that is another story :D.

The other thing was we were told the pool fence had been ordered. We'd certainly paid for it in the contract. December 22nd, with our youngest under two years old, they owned up that they had lied and we had a rapidly filling pool and no pool fence, three days before Christmas. We erected temporary fencing as best we could, rushed to Bunnings and bought the only pool fence we could get on the 22nd December... ugly looped top fencing, which was not what we had paid for, so we paid twice for fencing, and had to install it ourselves, but it made the pool safe. Years later, we swapped it for nicer black metal fence, which is much nicer, but when we retile our whole back pool surround and outdoor area, we will probably install frameless glass.

Dealing with the pool company was akin to a continual banging of our heads against a wall. We just ended up being squeaky wheels and pushed and pushed and called every day until they came here to shut us up. I reckon they probably had 30 families doing the same thing.

Good luck with it. It'll be worth it in the end :).
 
Let me explain

First of all I'm not losing any sleep over it, its more a matter of principle as pool companies will try and squeeze extra money out of you for any little thing they can.

When we first agreed on terms and conditions and what's included and what not, I paid a deposit in the shop and they printed out what we agreed on. It was agreed that all site works are included with regards to installing the pool. A week later they come out for a site visit and it is then that they pull the real paperwork out that is the official documentation. It is about 10 pages worth and included all the fine print and nitty gritty. It is on there that it states 4 hours only of bobcat use.

Now to Joe D's comments about whether the pool company thinks it takes 4 hours to install. i think they deliberately put less hours on there as a way of getting more money out of you knowing it will take 2-3hours more ($300 in their pocket). Even though the original verbal agreement and piece of paper says its all included.

Since I posted this I've had a few friends come back and say it took 6-7 hours all up to install a pool. Obviously this will change depending on access, soil conditions and size of pool.

In hindsight I would have still signed the paperwork because I needed to get it signed before I flew out the next day and if it costs me an extra few hundred dollars I will cop it on the chin. For me this is a matter of principle and I want to hear from people to have had a pool put in. If the general consensus is that it takes 6-7 hours then I will pull them up on it before they start and try and negotiable this 4hours of bobcat.

I didn't realise this post would open a debate about whether i should have signed the contract or not, I am purely after information from people about the time it takes to install the pool. Remember this is about the principle.

Wylie, thanks again for your comments, the pool company I am using is with SPASA and is popular so it should work out alright in the end. Its just this one issue I want to question them about to try and save myself a few hundred dollars if I can, thanks.
 
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Funny out difference in perception. You think I got ripped off on a pool I actually built and you don't know the difference between 4hrs bobcat hire and a further $297!

Oh, and you read contracts and the fine print after you sign!

image.jpg

pinkboy
 
I think Wylie is right - they put in a lesser time so that it is fairer on you, rather than charge you for 10 hours and then it taking 6.

Feel free to mention it to the pool guys - but for the sake of a couple of hundred dollars on what is probably a 20,000+ pool - I wouldn't be getting riled up or peeving them off.

12 years ago we put in a really nice cast concrete pool - cost around $30,000 then, so not cheap. We were on sandstone rock so dig took a couple of days of excavator jack hammering ... every house since had a pool in place
 
turfy77 said:
Is 4 hours enough for the bobcat???
Click to expand...

No it's not and you will be paying an extra $99/hr thereafter.

That's the contract conditions you signed upon.

You are only going to be screwed by yourself, not the company as they have a valid contract that you signed. It's too late.
 
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