Early retirement without a fortune
- Thread starter oracle
- Start date
I've got to agree with China on this one - 2 mil to retire on is hardly a fortune, but is sufficient for that purpose if one budgets etc...
Rolf, this thread is called Early retirement without a fortune. We need to define what a fortune is. 2 mil in income producing assets which cannot really be touched is hardly a fortune in 2013.
A recent survey suggested 5 mil plus is considered wealthy. http://www.cnbc.com/id/48240956/What_Does_It_Take_to_Feel_Wealthy
Ok, I guess that means you will need to stick with a Lear 35 at 200 gallons per hour of Jet A1, or you can share with China : )
I also dont perceive 2 mill to be a lot to retire from, but come on peops, this is going nowhere fast.
I guess the OP didnt start this thread to discuss what is a fortune, for 200 bucks is a fortune to some, and a billion is chicken feed to others.
For the average wage earner 2 mill in todays dollars isnt just a fortune.......its an incomprehensible amount
ta
rolf
It would take about 50 years for someone on minimum wage (canada) at 40 hrs a week, to earn 1 mil.
So yes, 1 mil is still a lot of money for some,.
Well lets see,
At last count, there were approximately 192,000 people in Australia with investable assests totalling $1 million or more. That is 192,000 out of 22,000,000 or about 0.8% of the population if my math is correct.(I never was very good at working out %'s)
China, you are talking about $2-3 million in investable assets as being the basic minimum for a basically comfortable retirement.
I think the rest of the 99.2% of the population would consider a $2-3 million nest egg to be a fortune.
It definitely is something to aspire to and good on you for doing so. And especially good on you for coming to a property investing website to learn all there is to know about investing in anything but property. That's a winning strategy if ever I heard it.
At last count, there were approximately 192,000 people in Australia with investable assests totalling $1 million or more. That is 192,000 out of 22,000,000 or about 0.8% of the population if my math is correct.(I never was very good at working out %'s)
China, you are talking about $2-3 million in investable assets as being the basic minimum for a basically comfortable retirement.
I think the rest of the 99.2% of the population would consider a $2-3 million nest egg to be a fortune.
It definitely is something to aspire to and good on you for doing so. And especially good on you for coming to a property investing website to learn all there is to know about investing in anything but property. That's a winning strategy if ever I heard it.
I note the figure of 5% of Aussie first home have no mortgage is the same %5 that retire independently wealthy.
Also it should be considered that having no mortgage on the books may mean a loan from mum and dad or family members as some cultures do.
Regards Peter 14.7
Also it should be considered that having no mortgage on the books may mean a loan from mum and dad or family members as some cultures do.
Regards Peter 14.7
Getting back to simple and frugal living as an option to retire on less the following from a site I mentioned earlier provide some ideas:
http://down---to---earth.blogspot.com.au/2009/07/simple-life-in-retirement.html
http://down---to---earth.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Saving money
http://down---to---earth.blogspot.com.au/2009/07/simple-life-in-retirement.html
http://down---to---earth.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Saving money
Had a quick look and great stuff.
Fyi. Chickens are really amazing pets. You get ultra fresh eggs at a fraction on shops cost, they eat bugs, they teach children life death and chotes, they eat scraps and provide manure for garden. We are lucky to have a small bag of rubbish per week.
If you have a small space and interested get some. They can also be suprisingly good as pets for kids. No vets fees either.
Peter 14.7
Fyi. Chickens are really amazing pets. You get ultra fresh eggs at a fraction on shops cost, they eat bugs, they teach children life death and chotes, they eat scraps and provide manure for garden. We are lucky to have a small bag of rubbish per week.
If you have a small space and interested get some. They can also be suprisingly good as pets for kids. No vets fees either.
Peter 14.7
I remember someone on SS took their chicken to the vet, when an egg got stuck..they steamed her bottom..cost $200
I'd have done the same thing....
Lets see new chicken at farmers market, $5 chick or $15 grow.
Vets fee $200.
Axe $0
Even though I would find it hard, my dad use to kill them. The Foxes doe good job here too if you leave any gate open.
Regards Peter 14.7
I remember watching them run around with their heads cut off when i was little.....I couldn't now
If I have chickens now they would be pets, and never make it to the table.
I could never eat anything we raised.
I understand now why my mother made my father get of the farm animals.
At last I understand, now I know why China needs 2 - 3 mil in retirement. He must have lots of chickens
I've kept silent on most of your other commentary, but this one just shows your absolute ignorance on the topic you mention & requires correction for the benefit of anyone reading.
Firstly, let's look at the USA... interest rates are far lower (& historically so) than Aust., median property prices are lower & the interest on your PPOR is tax deductible!. Yeah, you read that right... so please enlighten us all on how you managed to conclude that nonsense above? Something about "homeowners with mortgages in these countries..." In the USA, buying a PPOR provides significant tax mitigation to the point that it often makes more financial sense to own (with a mortgage) than to rent and save....
Secondly, you obviously aren't aware of other incentives offered in the UK or other European countries either, for the purchase of a PPOR. Ever heard of the UK mortgage interest relief program for home purchasers? Your comments above suggest not.
Thirdly, the quickest way in Australia to own a property (for those of us that can't live with mummy) is to find low cost rental, buy an affordable IP, use the tax advantages, rental income & personal savings all combined, to greatly accelerate complete ownership. But you would need to understand basic math to comprehend this.....
I've kept silent on most of your other commentary, but this one just shows your absolute ignorance on the topic you mention & requires correction for the benefit of anyone reading.
Firstly, let's look at the USA... interest rates are far lower (& historically so) than Aust., median property prices are lower & the interest on your PPOR is tax deductible!. Yeah, you read that right... so please enlighten us all on how you managed to conclude that nonsense above? Something about "homeowners with mortgages in these countries..." In the USA, buying a PPOR provides significant tax mitigation to the point that it often makes more financial sense to own (with a mortgage) than to rent and save....
Secondly, you obviously aren't aware of other incentives offered in the UK or other European countries either, for the purchase of a PPOR. Ever heard of the UK mortgage interest relief program for home purchasers? Your comments above suggest not.
Thirdly, the quickest way in Australia to own a property (for those of us that can't live with mummy) is to find low cost rental, buy an affordable IP, use the tax advantages, rental income & personal savings all combined, to greatly accelerate complete ownership. But you would need to understand basic math to comprehend this.....
Again, let me reiterate. Borrowing to buy a PPOR only works well if there is rising property values. Otherwise, buying IPs or PPOR on big mortgages is the quickest way to financial oblivion. Regardless of whatever schemes are in place.
Wrong. It is actually CHEAPER to buy in many places than it is to rent, even in the absence of rising property prices.... that is a F.A.C.T.
YOU started on the USA, UK and Europe angle & YOU are wrong in this instance. Very wrong. But hey, what would I know, I just live in the USA....
As for buying IPs with "big" mortgages.... *sigh*.... do the math.
Rental income + Tax offset + Depreciation + Savings > Savings
If you can't comprehend the basic math that is OK, but I'm sure many other readers will get it & more power to them!
If it was all that simple, we would all be property tycoons. We just need to take out more mortgages.
interestingly....................
I would take a punt that average income folk that have retired over the last 20 years, that took out a level of "risk managed" mortgage backed loans for resi property have a net worth of at least 10 to 100 times that of those that havent taken a mortgage backed loan ever.
Lets not work with "many" or "some", lets work with large volume statistical averages, because those of us with any exposure or involvement with stats know that you can prove "anything" at the edges, but if you stick to the middle you cant fiddle the books.
There will be some people who are doing OK income wise, because they are on unfunded defined benefit scheme "super", but unfunded income doesnt from part of net worth, because you cant pass it on to your estate.
ta
rolf
Agreed. The last 20 years have been good for aussie property prices. I am not sure that average income folk with a mortgage's net worth rose 100 times but I can believe 10 times. However, I am not sure that we can say the same for the past nine years.
