Estimating Building / Renovation Costs

[MF35]

Hi All,

I'm wondering where people get reliable cost estimates upon which to determine estimated building / reno costs? I'm trying to work out what a realistic estimate would be to;
(a) Do a knock down & rebuild of a semi (two attached houses),
(b) Renovate, extend, build up etc to turn a house into a semi,
in the eastern suburbs of Sydney.

The issues of finding a suitable block / house with the right zoning etc aside I need to be able to work out building / renovation costs for such a project to work out if it is financially feasible overall. Any resources people use, advice and/or your experiences would be appreciated. Has anyone done this who can share rough costs that resulted?

MF35

 

[sue78]

that's why I don't do renos I guess you should set yourself a budget +20%

 

[RumpledElf]

Every time I've tried to estimate something I've been reasonably close to the mark, its not *that* hard ... just do a bit of research first.

 

[our obsession]

MF35:

Any resources people use, advice and/or your experiences would be appreciated. Has anyone done this who can share rough costs that resulted?

I think it's a tricky kind of question/answer in that there are just so many variables...however you may find this site helpful with some costings:

http://www.archicentre.com.au/

In particular the new cost guide, I am on their mailing list and had the download of the guide, but I've lost it in my computer somewhere.

Also when we did our first build I sought information from everywhere, got a lot of info from building companies, eg:

http://www.macquariehomes.com.au/

http://www.jgkinghomes.com.au/

Pestered my brother, (he is a carpenter), brother in law, (he was a builder), cousin, (she is an architect)....spoke with people I knew and didn't know who were currently building...just researched a lot...so by the time we got a block of land I did know a little about a lot-sort of. Asked around the place where we wanted to build and got lots good reports on a builder in the area and went with him.

Then hired a Project Manager ...(we were hours away and had committments to work), but learnt a lot off the PM too.

Rang Shire and Planning, spoke to them asking my questions...I am also this forum has some great (reading) info, or may link to more info, maybe a search?

Most of all it was fun and very interesting.

 

[our obsession]

Actually MF, Sue might be an interesting read and follow too, I believe she has built a house or two, or three, or:

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46357

Also:

http://ask.homesite.com.au/index.php/homesite/C597

....and

http://www.yourhome.gov.au/renovatorsguide/getting-started.html

...and this, keeping in mind put out 2007 and is from Victoria:

http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/CAV_Publications_Building_Renovation/$file/bacvmagazine_1.pdf

that above last link may not work, well, it doesn't work it is pdf, try this and rummage around this site for the pdf link from there:

www.yourhome.gov.au

 

[sue78]

it's very different. He's asking for semi or renovate which I have no clue about. For one house in Brisbane area I can estimate anything you need.

 

[Minx]

If you get a set of plans a qualified estimator can do it for you.

 

[MF35]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies. Yes I had been having a look at the Archicentre Cost Guide but the estimates are on a fairly wide range. Eg - $175k to 334k for an 80sqm ground floor addition (which includes the reno of the existing building the extension is added to). Now I know it's hard provide estimates without detail but this range doesn't help me that much. I'll guess the best way is to sus out some potential builders/architecs who work the Eastern Suburbs (Bondi to Maroubra and surrounds) and get some ideas off them. Anyone recommend any?

Off the top of my head (and I don't have any building experience or specific knowledge) I was originally thinking a 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 1 LUG brick/rendered Semi with about 150sqm of internal space might cost about 200-250k to build new (so 400-500k for both attached semis). Also guesstimating that converting an existing house into semis (involving an extension to add a room or two, change of floor plan and reno of the existing building inside and out) may cost somewhere around the 150k mark per semi. As a very general ball park starting point does this sound like it could be anywhere near the money, or am I way off the mark?

Thanks,

MF35.

 

[Buzz]

MF35, I recently did a similar exercise when putting together a course I am presenting on reno tips. We just completed our 6th in Eastern Suburbs Sydney and instead of just showing what our costs are I wanted to show market values. As you suggest Archicentre seems to be one of the few sources of info but its figures have I large range. Other than getting quotes yourself I think you have all the info publicly available.

I recently had clients looking at doing a reno on a Clovelly semi and conversion from a 2 to a 4 bedroom, going up into the roof. They had 3 quotes and all were between $450k - $600k.


Good luck with the decision.

Jane

PS If you would like details on my team of trades and project managers I recommend PM me and I will send them through.

 

[MF35]

Hi Buzz / Jane,

"They had 3 quotes and all were between $450k - $600k". Was this to build up to get the two bedrooms on 1 semi (not 2 bedrooms on each of 2 semis)? And are we talking two large bedrooms and a bathroom on the second floor? Either way if that's for one semi it makes for a very expensive project. I think you'd pay close to 1 mil just for an average house size block away from the water in the Maroubra area, and more in Clovelly. And possibly more again if it was big enough to subdivide. If you're then paying in the vicinity of 500k to do a major reno on 1 semi I struggle to see how you'd end up adding much if any value and in my case it would defeat the purpose. I may as well just pay a bit more at time of purchase for something that doesn't need the work. It would cost me less.

Anyway this is the sort of thing I want to know to see how far off the mark my thinking about such costs is. I would have expected to be able to build a completely new building consisting of two reasonable size (3 bed) semis for 500-600k. Maybe I'm just way off the mark. Time for some research with the builders.

Thanks for your input.

MF35:

 

[MF35]

Hi Guys,

I did a bit more reading on the net. "BMT & Associates Quantity Surveyors" at www.bmtqs.com.au had cost estimates for building various types of homes at different spec levels and there is also a calculator on the website. Only a guide I know but provides some idea.

As an example they indicate the cost per square meter to build a "3br, 2 level brick veneer townhouse, including allowance for common property" at;
$1,210 - Low Level of Finish
$1,406 - Medium Level of Finish
$2,017 - High Level of Finish

Their calculator indicates such a townhouse, 160m2, built to Medium Level of Finish would cost $213k - $236k to construct (including builders profit). Then I imagine you'd have to add landscaping, fencing etc outdoors & possibly demolition costs etc because the estimate only covers the building itself (internal and covered outdoor floor space). Also DA & other professionals fees.

The build itself may be a bit cheaper if you kept it all on one level though? Or does it not make any difference when building new? I'd also note that there would be no "common property" which is catered for in the above cost estimates.

I'm thinking the cost quoted for a "townhouse" would be similar to a "semi". So doubling the single townhouse cost would give me a rough idea what it may cost to build two semis from scratch.

These figures lead me to think that about 500-600k might actually be a reasonable ball park estimate of what it would cost to get a semi residence built (not counting the purchase/land and associated costs of course).

Unless I'm still missing something?

MF35

 

[Buzz]

MF35, yes those quotes were for a single semi adding an extra level with 2 bedrooms and bathroom and taking off the back of the house new kitchen and living area with glass doors to paved and landscaped garden. However the big difference between what they are doing and what you are doing is it was to be their family home - so everything is different when renovating for self vs for profit.

Having said that though I know of those who have bought in the area you are looking at, for over $1mill, planning on spending $300k on a high end reno and revaluing for closer to $2mill than $1.5mill. Unfortunatley costs and holding costs have blown and reno costs are currently close to double. Profit is diminishing daily.

If I were you I would you visit the local council and find out the architects who deal with that council and get quotes from them. I was at Randwick council this morning and took the opportunity to vote on their urban design award applicants - there will details of architects there. You would probably find them online.

Good luck.

Jane

 

[MF35]

Hi All,

Just as a quick update I've started making direct inquiries with Architects & Builders to get their opinion on ball park costs. Only just started but the first Architect indicated that for 2 Semis with the following basic specs/criteria;
- 3 bedrooms,
- Plus Study or room for a small home office set up (not home business),
- 2 Bathrooms,
- Secure parking for 1 car,
- About 150 odd m2 of internal living space (give or take a few depending on cost, size of the block etc),
- Small-medium covered outdoor living area (deck/pergola etc),
- Environmentally friendly (within reason),
- Medium level fittings and finishes,

He'd be budgeting for $3000 - $4000 per m2, or up to 600k. He did specify that that was for the build only and all professional, council, buying & borrowing costs would come on top. He also indicated that any complications in the building process would likely add to that cost and advised that this was not uncommon.

MF35

 

[MF35]

Further Update;

I've now ran the question of ball park costs for a knock down rebuild or major renovation past 7 different Building / Architect businesses. One suggested 150m2 was a bit small and that closer to 170m2 was a better size. I received the following info;

In summary their responses indicated the following ball park price ranges for two 150-170m2 semis of similar specs to those previously stated including Project management, professional, council fees etc:

NEW for two semis: 600k - 900k (most indicated 600-800k)
RENO of two semis: 300k - 500K (renovate to as new with moderate structural changes in addition to the new construction)
RENO of two semis: 450k - 700k (renovate to as new with more significant structural change to the existing building and all the newly constructed area being second storey, eg. 2 bed and bath upstairs).

Big spread across different businesses and of course this is just a rough rule of thumb without a site, specific finishes, design etc being nominated. The top end of each range also tends to reflect higher end finishes and construction. A relatively simple design on a level and accessible block would potentially keep it in the middle to lower end of these estimates. These estimates also reflect the lowest and highest of the estimate ranges provided to me from all the different businesses.

I have previously renovated a 95m2, 2 bed, 2 bath, unit (internal only) to a good standard for 25-27k. This involved;
- new kitchen,
- new carpet and hard floors throughout,
- new paint,
- new BIR,
- updated bathrooms (screens, vanity, grout repair and clean),
- new light fittings throughout,

But we did the painting so say 27-30k if you pay painters.

If I was co-ordinating (but having everything done by tradies) a largely cosmetic reno for a larger existing floor space of approaching 150m2 with some minor internal structural changes to alter the floor plan, then also fixing up the outside of the building, adding some outdoor living space etc I could see this quickly ending up around 100k per semi. Especially if the bathrooms needed more than an update (re-tiling / waterproofing etc). Then maybe 150k odd if you just extended at ground level to add one large room.

Food for thought.

MF35

 

[RumpledElf]

This house has come to about $25k for renos to date - 'new' kitchen, new pump, new roof, new hws, rewire, one new ceiling, 5 new tanks, new combustion heater, one new bedroom and one totally sealed/painted, materials for a new bathroom uninstalled in boxes, outdoor paint, some new fencing, and probably some other stuff I can't think of that is reasonably minor. If there wasn't so much DIY in there it would have come to a lot more, the kitchen only cost $1000 and courtesy of a small flood I got most of the house recarpeted for free. I've still spent more than I paid for the house and I may not get my money back when I sell. If I actually add all the bits up I'll probably find its higher than $25k :|

Other house is looking to be about $20-25k in total - new kitchen, new kitchen cornices and part of ceiling, new kitchen windows, new kitchen floor/subfloor, new lounge floor, new floor coverings throughout, rewire, new roof, total paint inside and out, new internal doors, some window panes replaced, minor outdoor landscaping, replumbed. Considerably less DIY in this one, much smaller house, but no rainwater tanks - those things really add up. If/when we subdivide we will need to add several thousand more for fencing, moving the septic tank 2 freakin metres to the left and adding a carport just so we meet the council regulations.

We could have got away with much less but thought screw it, lets get a new roof and a proper cabinetmaker to do the kitchen.