European house build vs Australian build

[Zos]

This is a question for the builders as I have pondered over this for quite some time.

Typical Aussie home - slab, framework, brick work, drywall partitioning.
European - Slab, brickwork, rendering

Having lived in both countries I can say that the typical build quality in Europe is much better. You have solid walls, insulation is exceptional for the hot and cold and the house is built like a bunker. Exterior bricks are 40cm thick and have great insulating properties.

Taking into consideration for the typical Aussie home you need to have a chippy do the frame work, brickie for the brick work and then a plasterer for the drywall this would all add up.

Is it really still cheaper to build like that than to build the house from bricks only? Render in the inside of the walls and outside. At the end of the day the brick work makes up the frame, the walls and the facade.

I know electrical work is a little more time consuming as you have to chisel it into the brick work. Adding extra outlets after build is something you do not want to have to do, but plan it right you have no need.

But at the end of it all the build is going to be terrific and something that retains the cold/warmth and does not lose it within 20mins of turning off the heater.


I guess I am just interested in what a builder has to say about this.

 

[westminster]

Zos,

The European way is how people in WA build. It's double brick with a cavity for the outside walls and single brick for the internal walls.

It's actually not that great in terms of thermal effeciency and now to get the 6 stars compliance needs cavity insulation etc.

Certainly brick&frame is faster, can have better thermal efficiency, easy to move internal walls/add points/cabling etc.

But each state has variations on the theme.

 

[wylie]

The European way is how people in WA build. It's double brick with a cavity for the outside walls and single brick for the internal walls.

It's actually not that great in terms of thermal effeciency and now to get the 6 stars compliance needs cavity insulation etc.

Certainly brick&frame is faster, can have better thermal efficiency, easy to move internal walls/add points/cabling etc.

Do you mean double brick with a cavity plus a third layer of brick inside? That is a LOT of bricks.

Are the internal walls on these brick houses timber and plaster?

 

[Scott_Snap]

Looking at things other than the environmental costs of digging larger volumes of clay out of the ground compared to carbon capturing in trees and wood aside. Yes it absolutely is cheaper to build a brick veneer framed house not only that it preforms better in most Australian Conditions. A timber frame for an average sized display home takes 3-4 days the roof is on within 6 - 8 days. A carpenter gang at $20 sqm (this is high some get 17- 15 ) would earn $5000 for the frame total. the timber content would be approx $6500 trusses about the same so complete frame $ 18000 . The average house has 200 l/m of walls 4.2 bricks per meter bricks are on average $1.oo each 31 courses per 2700 wall. $ 26000 per skin $6500 for trusses still required ( and carpenter to install 1.5 days $ 2000 ) so compare $34,500.00 As the veneer requires 1 course also I have only counted I course into the brick calculation. Conservatively there is a 16,500 saving in brick veneer with out considering on costs like scaffolding , deeper footings , maintenance ,time , cartage , and access. And rendering is more expensive than hanging sheets so there is a loss there. Insulation as pointed out is still required in double brick construction so no win there either Hope that helps.

 

[Scott_Snap]

Dam I forgot to add the brickies labour at $600-800 per 1000 bricks

 

[Melbournian]

This is a question for the builders as I have pondered over this for quite some time.

Typical Aussie home - slab, framework, brick work, drywall partitioning.
European - Slab, brickwork, rendering

Having lived in both countries I can say that the typical build quality in Europe is much better. You have solid walls, insulation is exceptional for the hot and cold and the house is built like a bunker. Exterior bricks are 40cm thick and have great insulating properties.

Taking into consideration for the typical Aussie home you need to have a chippy do the frame work, brickie for the brick work and then a plasterer for the drywall this would all add up.

Is it really still cheaper to build like that than to build the house from bricks only? Render in the inside of the walls and outside. At the end of the day the brick work makes up the frame, the walls and the facade.

I know electrical work is a little more time consuming as you have to chisel it into the brick work. Adding extra outlets after build is something you do not want to have to do, but plan it right you have no need.

But at the end of it all the build is going to be terrific and something that retains the cold/warmth and does not lose it within 20mins of turning off the heater.


I guess I am just interested in what a builder has to say about this.

not really - lots of european countries are using more easier ways to build than using brick. brick is a poor insulator and it is harder to cool down in the summer months.

 

[SamL]

I find the ones interesting where they build with the polystyrene blocks and infill with concrete, seems to be reasonably quick to build and the place is rock solid and the polystyrene (or something similar) provides insulating characteristics and is rendered.

 

[Zos]

That is some great info Scott. If I ever do decide to build new I will have a good idea on how much to ask to get the job done.

The bricks in picture are poly filled which is something different. My last flat was built using the same brick but not filled with poly air cavities left. The outside rendering is done with a special thermal render mix and put on 50mm thick. It worked really well and did not let in heat like I am used to in Melbourne. The other way they do it is slap poly on the outside and render over. But I actually like the 50mm render mix it let the walls breath better.

I know that in Europe they are also putting up these timber frames, don't know how popular they are maybe only if someone wants it up quick.

Insulation bats would also need to be factored into cost here on the walls or is that something not typically done.

I would argue cooling a place down that has not overheated is a benefit, as opposed to cooling a place down that has. But really this is just my observation and living experience. Over in Europe the flat I lived in during the winter minus 10 outside. If you had the inside warmed to 23.5 and turned off heater in the morning you would find it dropped maybe 2 degrees.

The houses I have lived in here have massive drops in temperature and while outside it is not close to negative 10. The place I am in now will lose 2 degrees easily within an hour so you have to keep the heater on longer which would no doubt cost more in the long run.

After reading Scott's post it would definitely seem a lot cheaper the way they are doing it and speed as well.

Lets face it most people want cheaper and quicker when wanting to move in.

Those bricks in picture are probably equivalent to 8 Australian sized bricks. They cost around $2-$3.

Glad I asked as some valuable information has been gained.

 

[westminster]

Do you mean double brick with a cavity plus a third layer of brick inside? That is a LOT of bricks.

Are the internal walls on these brick houses timber and plaster?

Sorry I explained that poorly.
The perimeter walls are double brick. All the other walls are single brick. No timber at all except in the roof.

It's a complete bugger if you want to change anything around.

 

[Zos]

Sorry I explained that poorly.
The perimeter walls are double brick. All the other walls are single brick. No timber at all except in the roof.

It's a complete bugger if you want to change anything around.

That sounds something more similar to European style. I just maybe wonder if the thermal efficiency is compromised just because of the different bricks used compared to in picture?

Absolutely agree with modifications being harder but still done regularly when it comes to renovations. Adding in power outlets is hard. Usually once you disturb the render on the inside once it comes to putty your modification it is visible. If you want it perfect you have to do the whole wall. What a PITA.

 

[westminster]

That sounds something more similar to European style. I just maybe wonder if the thermal efficiency is compromised just because of the different bricks used compared to in picture?

Absolutely agree with modifications being harder but still done regularly when it comes to renovations. Adding in power outlets is hard. Usually once you disturb the render on the inside once it comes to putty your modification it is visible. If you want it perfect you have to do the whole wall. What a PITA.

We do have some special bricks available which are better in terms of thermal efficiency but they aren't standard. So for now we run insulation down the cavity of the 2 layers, roof and sometimes floor insulation to make it better.

2 years ago new constructs in WA were 5 star, now they are 6 star. A house built to a 6 star standard will use about 20 to 25% less energy to heat and cool when compared to a similar sized 5 star house.

http://www.buildingcommission.wa.gov.au/consumers/sustainability/6-star-energy-efficiency